R&T Comparo 08/92

I bought on eBay a print of the comparo Road and Track did on the SVX, BMW 325is and the Lexus SC300. Today it came in the mail. If this were a recent comparo I would be up in arms over the article. From what I can tell from the 'subjective' ratings, these guys had to be on BMW's payroll. The SVX finished dead last in every subjective category, not by a little but a lot. Interestingly the SVX finished last when it came to the engine power even the HP was the highest rated. In fact all of the time trial speeds were better than both other cars. The braking of the SVX beat out the competition by 23 feet at 60 mph and 33 feet at 80 mph, yet the subjective rating was equal for all three. The cabin was quieter than all, yet finished second. The overall subjective average rate the SVX at an 8.3 while the others were tied at 9.1.

Granted, I am smitten with the SVX to be sure, but when I read major discrepancies between the subjective and real world data it makes me wonder. The SVX probably got 10% of the article and the nicest thing the could say was ' It's almost like a Jaguar, cushy elegant, subdued,'.

I now remember why I cancelled my subscription so many years ago.

[ensteele]

It is interesting how they can say some much good about it, but then rate it so poorly!

"The SVX finished dead last in every subjective category, not by a little but a lot."

Funny when you consider all these years later, the SVX is more desirable!

[Chiketkd]

Originally Posted by fl_svx

I bought on eBay a print of the comparo Road and Track did on the SVX, BMW 325is and the Lexus SC300. Today it came in the mail. If this were a recent comparo I would be up in arms over the article. From what I can tell from the 'subjective' ratings, these guys had to be on BMW's payroll. The SVX finished dead last in every subjective category, not by a little but a lot. Interestingly the SVX finished last when it came to the engine power even the HP was the highest rated. In fact all of the time trial speeds were better than both other cars. The braking of the SVX beat out the competition by 23 feet at 60 mph and 33 feet at 80 mph, yet the subjective rating was equal for all three. The cabin was quieter than all, yet finished second. The overall subjective average rate the SVX at an 8.3 while the others were tied at 9.1.

Granted, I am smitten with the SVX to be sure, but when I read major discrepancies between the subjective and real world data it makes me wonder. The SVX probably got 10% of the article and the nicest thing the could say was ' It's almost like a Jaguar, cushy elegant, subdued,'.

I now remember why I cancelled my subscription so many years ago.

What were the test results for the SVX in that comparo? 0-60mph, 1/4 mile, 60-0 braking, skid pad, etc.?

-Chike

[RSVX]

Originally Posted by Chiketkd

What were the test results for the SVX in that comparo? 0-60mph, 1/4 mile, 60-0 braking, skid pad, etc.?

-Chike

Did you even READ his post? Braking test results are in it... even in your quote, so there wasnt a stealth edit

Originally Posted by Chiketkd

What were the test results for the SVX in that comparo? 0-60mph, 1/4 mile, 60-0 braking, skid pad, etc.?

-Chike

Vehicle 0-60 60-0 1/4 mile Skid

SVX 7.3 134 ft 15.3@92.5 .85
Lexus SC300 7.4 153 ft 15.7@91.0 .89
BMW 325is 8.3 157ft 16.2@87.0 .83

John

[Chiketkd]

Originally Posted by fl_svx

Vehicle 0-60 60-0 1/4 mile Skid

SVX 7.3 134 ft 15.3@92.5 .85
Lexus SC300 7.4 153 ft 15.7@91.0 .89
BMW 325is 8.3 157ft 16.2@87.0 .83

John

Sweet! Thanks John!

-Chike

[Chiketkd]

Originally Posted by RSVX

Did you even READ his post? Braking test results are in it... even in your quote, so there wasnt a stealth edit

Braking results are not in it - only the distance the SVX beat out its competition.

-Chike

[RSVX]

Originally Posted by Chiketkd

Braking results are not in it - only the distance the SVX beat out its competition.

-Chike

OK, you got me there


*hides in corner*

Subjective means just that - subjective, as in free of any type of objective consideration when making a judgement.

Don't get me wrong, I love my SVX to death, and have wanted one ever since I saw the spy photos in (oh irony!) an issue of Road and Track in 1991. But the SVX is a lot like the BMW 850 of the same time period, an automobile that in a lot of ways, is somehow less then the sum of it's parts.

If you'll recall, the 850 was panned in some quarters for not living up to the BMW heritage. Despite a dead sexy body, a potent V-12, the same legendary BMW suspension layout that gave such success to the 3 and 5 Series, the big coupe was niether as fast as it's looks or power suggested, not as nimble as it's suspension implied, and never came close to living up to the potential that was suggested by it's stunning looks.

Consider the SVX. Also has a dead sexy body, a potent (especially for the time) flat-six, a highly advanced all wheel drive system, big wheels and tires, and all of the ingredients that on paper suggest a world class sports coupe. It also sported some pretty decent acceleration figures for 1992, good braking distances on paper, and Motor Trend managed to wring a .92 on the skidpad, which was the highest lateral acceleration figure they had ever recorded. All three big magazines also managed to get high 60s in the slalom, which is a better handling benchmark and on par with purebred sports cars.

But cars are not just what they can do on paper. My SVX reminds me of a C4 Corvette - I know it has high handling limits, but the nervous little motions in the middle of a turn, the poor handling of sharp transient bumps, and what feels to me like slightly slow steering make me reluctant to approach them. C4 Corvettes I have driven feel the same way - the car does not really encourage you to play at the limit. In that sense, I could easily reconcile a high objective measurement (slalom speed, skidpad number), and a low subjective measurement (car doesn't make me feel secure at 9/10ths).

On the other hand, my BMW 735i, despite weighing 350lbs more then the SVX, exhibits much tighter body control, rides better, and doesn't have nervous little movements during cornering. I would be willing to bet, however, that in any measured test, the 7 would be slower to 60 and through the quarter mile, have a lower skidpad figure, a slower slalom number, longer braking distances, and generally come out on the worse end of any test figure not having to do with interior noise levels or inspiring hate in your fellow motorist.

In the end, though, I'm personally happy that people consistently don't value or understand the SVX. I love the car enough to overlook the little personality faults it displays, most of which can be fixed anyhow, and I like the fact that, unlike all my other dream cars, this one costs less then the average used Kia.

[Royal Tiger]

I currently subscribe to 3 auto magazines. In order of my preference:
1. Car & Driver
2. Motor Trend
3. Automobile (which was number 2 until the "new" format)

Road and Track is what you paper the outhouse with.

Originally Posted by Tofu

Subjective means just that - subjective, as in free of any type of objective consideration when making a judgement.

Don't get me wrong, I love my SVX to death, and have wanted one ever since I saw the spy photos in (oh irony!) an issue of Road and Track in 1991. But the SVX is a lot like the BMW 850 of the same time period, an automobile that in a lot of ways, is somehow less then the sum of it's parts.

If you'll recall, the 850 was panned in some quarters for not living up to the BMW heritage. Despite a dead sexy body, a potent V-12, the same legendary BMW suspension layout that gave such success to the 3 and 5 Series, the big coupe was niether as fast as it's looks or power suggested, not as nimble as it's suspension implied, and never came close to living up to the potential that was suggested by it's stunning looks.

Consider the SVX. Also has a dead sexy body, a potent (especially for the time) flat-six, a highly advanced all wheel drive system, big wheels and tires, and all of the ingredients that on paper suggest a world class sports coupe. It also sported some pretty decent acceleration figures for 1992, good braking distances on paper, and Motor Trend managed to wring a .92 on the skidpad, which was the highest lateral acceleration figure they had ever recorded. All three big magazines also managed to get high 60s in the slalom, which is a better handling benchmark and on par with purebred sports cars.

But cars are not just what they can do on paper. My SVX reminds me of a C4 Corvette - I know it has high handling limits, but the nervous little motions in the middle of a turn, the poor handling of sharp transient bumps, and what feels to me like slightly slow steering make me reluctant to approach them. C4 Corvettes I have driven feel the same way - the car does not really encourage you to play at the limit. In that sense, I could easily reconcile a high objective measurement (slalom speed, skidpad number), and a low subjective measurement (car doesn't make me feel secure at 9/10ths).

On the other hand, my BMW 735i, despite weighing 350lbs more then the SVX, exhibits much tighter body control, rides better, and doesn't have nervous little movements during cornering. I would be willing to bet, however, that in any measured test, the 7 would be slower to 60 and through the quarter mile, have a lower skidpad figure, a slower slalom number, longer braking distances, and generally come out on the worse end of any test figure not having to do with interior noise levels or inspiring hate in your fellow motorist.

In the end, though, I'm personally happy that people consistently don't value or understand the SVX. I love the car enough to overlook the little personality faults it displays, most of which can be fixed anyhow, and I like the fact that, unlike all my other dream cars, this one costs less then the average used Kia.

Wow !! Someone who talks as much as I do, except you make your response interesting and viable. This almost sounds like you write for a living or have that inane ability to do so. It is true that a subjective rating is indeed that, subjective. So is art work and on and on. There are some people who will buy the Ford 500 rather than a Dodge Magnum, I ask the question, why? This boils down to the subjective nature of the human race. Everyone wants a Diablo II or a Porsche, but the reality is, they either cannot afford them or are not practical for their needs. Those of us who own SVX's know the limitations of the car, we accept their foibles and move on from there. We defend our precious SVX to the 'nth' degree because we love our cars, not for one thing, but for the 'sum of their parts'. I venture to say that there are not as many 325is or SC300 owners today who are as fanatical about their cars as an SVX owner. Seems to me that when a national or worldwide publication is conducting a comparison between models that they make an effort to address the difference between the subjective and real. In this case it did not happen. We all know that some cars seem 'faster' than others when the reality is something different. The Japanese changed the ratio betweeen the pedal and carb to give their cars a different feel than their American counterparts. They werent any faster, the adverse was tue, but they felt faster. This is a subjective rating, not a real world one. So then how do we rectify the difference and make things equal? If I had the choice back then for any of these cars in the market, I propbably would have still opted for the SVX. I have never been a Bimmer fan since I had the opportunity to drive a 2002Tii for a week. Migod, the pedals looked like they came out of a bug and the car understeered terribly. The only experience I had with Lexus was my weekend drive in an ES300 in 1991. Wow, that car was so quiet and the Nakamichi stereo was great. This to me was a notch above any Merc or BMW. I think the most overused word in the car world is 'Teutonic' as if this was the Holy Grail of cardom. I have not seen a Merc I liked inside. They have that taxi cab feel to them. The BMW 3.0 Csi and 850 were pretty cool, but who could afford an 850? All in all, I think Subaru got a short shrift in this case. On the other hand, Subaru had never built a car like this before and suppose there was some trepidation as to whether the SVX deserved a higher grade. Methinks it was Subaru's lack of experience in this area that did them in. As it turns out they were ahead of their time and the forerunner of some very fine cars you find today. Typical of Americans, we tend to look at the short term and not taking a look at the future before us.

FL, where in MT are you moving to?
I could use more SVX in Missoula

Originally Posted by Rob

FL, where in MT are you moving to?
I could use more SVX in Missoula

The plan is either Polson or Missoula.

[Red SVX 92]

Originally Posted by fl_svx

I venture to say that there are not as many 325is or SC300 owners today who are as fanatical about their cars as an SVX owner.

Just to let you know, SC300 owners are as fanatical, if not more so; they have the N/A Supra engine, and there's more than a few SC300s running around with either the turbo Supra engine or a turbo kit. Their interior is as nice, if not nicer, than the SVX, they're RWD, and lots of Supra parts bolt on directly to those cars. Plus, at least a few of those cars came with sticks from the factory