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  #211  
Old 08-29-2009, 10:52 AM
NiftySVX NiftySVX is offline
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Re: Gearshift Maps

Quote:
Originally Posted by b3lha View Post
After the TCU has calculated what the duty cycle should be, it applies an adjustment factor based on ATF temp and Battery Voltage. You could tweak the duty "across the board" by modifying this adjustment table. If you want to experiment with it then I'll try and explain it further.

It would probably be better to change the actual Sol C map though. I've got some of it decoded but I haven't got my head around all of it yet.
I was curious, I'm not even sure a modification of the AWD map would make a difference as far as drivability or performance, it would likely only cause clutch durability and other problems. Plus, I lack the equipment required to experiment with it anyway, so I won't waste any more of your time on it I am more interested in how this solenoid thing comes out because I would like to fit a VTD tail section to my US trans, as I imagine the VTD car would drive far, far better. I have a glimmer of hope that it may be possible to do so with minimal other modification, even though a few months ago I thought this would be impossible.

I've been researching on my own to attempt to figure out why a solenoid change would have been made, and I can't figure out why they would change it like that. The different wire colors don't surprise me as they could have switched manufacturers, or sometimes the current manufacturer just decides to change the wire color for no reason. I've seen stuff like that happen before.
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  #212  
Old 08-29-2009, 07:43 PM
Trevor Trevor is offline
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Re: Gearshift Maps

Quote:
Originally Posted by NiftySVX View Post

I've been researching on my own to attempt to figure out why a solenoid change would have been made, and I can't figure out why they would change it like that. The different wire colors don't surprise me as they could have switched manufacturers, or sometimes the current manufacturer just decides to change the wire color for no reason. I've seen stuff like that happen before.
I have also carried out research and am still doing so, having contacted Subaru N.Z., transmission shops and specialist Subaru parts suppliers. No evidence is available to support the alleged change in the C solenoid, in fact the opposite is the case.
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  #213  
Old 10-01-2009, 05:34 PM
NeedForSpeed NeedForSpeed is offline
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Re: Gearshift Maps

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Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
I have also carried out research and am still doing so, having contacted Subaru N.Z., transmission shops and specialist Subaru parts suppliers. No evidence is available to support the alleged change in the C solenoid, in fact the opposite is the case.

The opposite is not the case. Based on the facts at hand, the evidence that transfer solenoid C in the JDM/AU transmissions was changed to a N/C design in later models is absolute. Here is the proof:

It is undisputed that all US transfer solenoids are Normally Closed. My Subaru dealer provided the following part numbers for the transfer solenoid:

PN 31942AA 061, US up to 05/95, transfer solenoid
PN 31942AA 090, US 5/95 to 11/96, transfer solenoid
I was told that 090 DID NOT supersede 061.

Japanese and Australian parts catalogs provide the following part numbers:

PN 31942AA 050, 09/1991-01/1994, updated by:
PN 31942AA 051 02/1994-10/1994

PN 31942AA 061, 11/1994-04/1995
PN 31942AA 090, 05/1995-11/1996

These later two Japanese and Australian-spec VTD transfer solenoids are the same PN [exact same part] as US-spec N/C solenoids from 92-97.

The change to N/C solenoid from a N/O is the reason that a TCU for an early VTD transmission will not properly control a later VTD transmission.

This fact was determined independently and almost simultaneously by Harvey with his late UK-spec box controlled by 'early' programming maps, and by myself with a late JDM-spec box controlled by an early JDM TCU in our US-spec '92 Peacock Blue SVX.

Why the change? That in fact, is the question without an answer.
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  #214  
Old 10-01-2009, 06:23 PM
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Re: Gearshift Maps

I don't know what all the trouble is about... The shifter in my car shows me the shift map

Tom
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  #215  
Old 10-01-2009, 06:39 PM
oab_au oab_au is offline
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Re: Gearshift Maps

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Originally Posted by TomsSVX View Post
I don't know what all the trouble is about... The shifter in my car shows me the shift map

Tom
Which one do you use?
1st.3rd.5th, or 2nd,4th,6th?????????

Harvey.
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  #216  
Old 10-01-2009, 06:41 PM
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Re: Gearshift Maps

I like to integrate the two. Give you the best of both worlds

Tom
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  #217  
Old 10-01-2009, 06:50 PM
NeedForSpeed NeedForSpeed is offline
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Re: Gearshift Maps

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Originally Posted by TomsSVX View Post
I don't know what all the trouble is about... The shifter in my car shows me the shift map

Tom
That makes it simple!
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  #218  
Old 10-02-2009, 01:53 AM
Trevor Trevor is offline
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Re: Gearshift Maps

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedForSpeed View Post
The change to N/C solenoid from a N/O is the reason that a TCU for an early VTD transmission will not properly control a later VTD transmission.

This fact was determined independently and almost simultaneously by Harvey with his late UK-spec box controlled by 'early' programming maps, and by myself with a late JDM-spec box controlled by an early JDM TCU in our US-spec '92 Peacock Blue SVX.

Why the change? That in fact, is the question without an answer.
"will not properly control a later VTD transmission." From this I would gather that the transmission worked in some fashion, but not properly. Exactly what function was not operating properly/correctly, when using the early type TCU?
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  #219  
Old 10-03-2009, 10:43 AM
NeedForSpeed NeedForSpeed is offline
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Re: Gearshift Maps

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Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
"will not properly control a later VTD transmission." From this I would gather that the transmission worked in some fashion, but not properly. Exactly what function was not operating properly/correctly, when using the early type TCU?

HI Trevor,
Inappropriate clutch activation, aka, binding.
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  #220  
Old 10-03-2009, 11:24 AM
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Re: Gearshift Maps

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Originally Posted by NeedForSpeed View Post
HI Trevor,
Inappropriate clutch activation, aka, binding.
Also the opposite, no engagement when needed.
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  #221  
Old 10-03-2009, 04:38 PM
Trevor Trevor is offline
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Re: Gearshift Maps

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Originally Posted by NeedForSpeed View Post
HI Trevor,
Inappropriate clutch activation, aka, binding.
Greetings,

“This fact was determined independently and almost simultaneously by Harvey with his late UK-spec box controlled by 'early' programming maps,”

Without the information requested in my posts #204 and #206 recorded, the information so far available is nebulous. Nothing has been proven and it is indicated that an after market EPROM is the cause of the reported problem/difference.

and by myself with a late JDM-spec box controlled by an early JDM TCU in our US-spec '92 Peacock Blue SVX.”

Are you advising on the basis of experience with your own car? Particularly interesting is the fitting of a JDM transmission in a US spec. SVX. Details would be appreciated, including specific before and after results, and how, when and where there was binding.

At this point you must appreciate that the only proof is, that you corrected a problem by changing the TCU. In point of fact the early TCU could have been faulty.
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  #222  
Old 10-03-2009, 08:34 PM
NeedForSpeed NeedForSpeed is offline
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Re: Gearshift Maps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
Greetings,

“This fact was determined independently and almost simultaneously by Harvey with his late UK-spec box controlled by 'early' programming maps,”

Without the information requested in my posts #204 and #206 recorded, the information so far available is nebulous. Nothing has been proven and it is indicated that an after market EPROM is the cause of the reported problem/difference.

and by myself with a late JDM-spec box controlled by an early JDM TCU in our US-spec '92 Peacock Blue SVX.”

Are you advising on the basis of experience with your own car? Particularly interesting is the fitting of a JDM transmission in a US spec. SVX. Details would be appreciated, including specific before and after results, and how, when and where there was binding.

At this point you must appreciate that the only proof is, that you corrected a problem by changing the TCU. In point of fact the early TCU could have been faulty.

Hi Trevor,

Please note, I have only posted three times in this thread.

The one and only purpose of my first post was in response to your one post, to offer substantial and unrefuted proof that late VTD boxes were IN FACT fitted with a N/C transfer solenoid. This statement was based on US/JDM/UK Subaru part numbers at hand. Again, based on information from Subaru dealers around the world, not based on my experience, not based on the experience of others, the part was changed, for reasons unknown to date.

No, I am not advising, or giving any advice, on the basis of experience with this particular car. This is not the venue. As this thread is highly significant and important, Phil's Gearshift Map thread, I'll step out now, and let the discussion and debate resume with that theme.

Thanks :-)
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  #223  
Old 10-04-2009, 12:21 AM
Trevor Trevor is offline
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Re: Gearshift Maps

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Originally Posted by NeedForSpeed View Post
Hi Trevor,

Please note, I have only posted three times in this thread.

The one and only purpose of my first post was in response to your one post, to offer substantial and unrefuted proof that late VTD boxes were IN FACT fitted with a N/C transfer solenoid. This statement was based on US/JDM/UK Subaru part numbers at hand. Again, based on information from Subaru dealers around the world, not based on my experience, not based on the experience of others, the part was changed, for reasons unknown to date.

No, I am not advising, or giving any advice, on the basis of experience with this particular car. This is not the venue. As this thread is highly significant and important, Phil's Gearshift Map thread, I'll step out now, and let the discussion and debate resume with that theme.

Thanks :-)
Phil is interested in an answer to this aspect of things, otherwise I would not be taking up space in this thread.

All we have is a change in part numbers, which lack an associated description of the part. There is no verification of a change from N/O to N/C. The change in number could be for many non related reasons. I have hearsay evidence which contradicts what you have been told, so must leave the matter in abeyance.

Whatever, thanks for the information, Trevor.
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  #224  
Old 10-04-2009, 01:17 PM
NeedForSpeed NeedForSpeed is offline
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Re: Gearshift Maps

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Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
Phil is interested in an answer to this aspect of things, otherwise I would not be taking up space in this thread.

All we have is a change in part numbers, which lack an associated description of the part. There is no verification of a change from N/O to N/C. The change in number could be for many non related reasons. I have hearsay evidence which contradicts what you have been told, so must leave the matter in abeyance.

Whatever, thanks for the information, Trevor.
Hi Trevor,

Yes, there is verification, from Subaru dealers worldwide! This is not personal opinion. This is not hearsay evidence. This is factual, numerical, unrefuted verification and proof.

Please do not misunderstand; I'm most interested in the fact that you and Phil have accurate facts with which to make logical and proper conclusions, thus the reason for posting. We remain fortunate that Phil has a passion for TCU programming, wanting to collect and explore all SVX TCUs. Phil is one of our greatest resources here, without question. I'm been in email and phone communication with Phil for many years. My family and I were guests at Phil and Belha's home in the UK four years ago. He has an open invitation to visit California. Yes, I'm most considerate of Phil's interest in this and in all SVX details, as much, but likely more, than anyone here.

I've asked a couple members with late JDM VTDs if their TCUs can be downloaded for Phil's use. I'm diligently pursuing data and facts to complete the record. Only then, once Phil has an opportunity to dissect late VTD programming, can a clear understanding of programming logic be established in relation to N/O and N/C transfer solenoids.

I would agree with you, that the change in part numbers, in-of-itself, is not proof enough. However, Subaru part numbers are universal.

The fact remains, late VTD transfer solenoid numbers ARE the same exact parts used in US boxes. These US parts have been dissected my many members. IT IS CLEARLY ESTABLISHED THAT THE LATE VTD PART NUMBERS ARE N/C PARTS, THE EXACT PARTS USED IN THE US. Unless you can prove that the part numbers on hand, received from Australian, Japanese, and American Subaru dealers are fiction, you should accept the facts presented and move onward, so that a clearer understanding in this matter will enable you to provide accurate advice to our members.

Verification for you must come from Subaru dealers via parts numbers. I can PM a VIN for a S3 if you would like to confirm the solenoid part number in this late application. I'm sure that you have access online to verify the US part number for a numerical comparison. Any US member could assist.

Based on the evidence, the fact that late VTD boxes are fitted with US-spec N/C solenoids must be accepted and established to fully understand the compatibility of parts, and/or programming, for all SVX markets.

Take care, Ron
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  #225  
Old 10-04-2009, 02:33 PM
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Re: Gearshift Maps

I had to order some components for another kit I'm sending off to the assembly house so while at it I'm ordering the components for a couple hundred ttl232r adaptors to send off to the assembly house too.

Here's a print screen of the routed board.

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