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  #31  
Old 04-08-2004, 09:31 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: think you guys are being a little

Quote:
Originally posted by mohrds


Sung to the theme of "Rawhide"
Hijack, Hijack, Hijack. This thread is getting Hijacked.
Keep those posts a rollin' Hijack!

Next?
getum up moven out !!

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asap !!

thanks
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  #32  
Old 04-09-2004, 05:50 AM
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Re: Performance Camshaft prices and specs!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by Chiketkd
The seller on Ebay e-mailed me back with the following info:

I can provide the cams seperatly. The price would be $500 + shipping. This is an introductry price and may increase in the future. You would need to pack them carefully and send them to me. We will have them reprofiled and send them back as I am out of cores at the moment. This may also change soon. Pack them well and we will send them back in the same package. The specs, if you are intersted are: intake, 310 lift and 193 duration and the exhaust: 336 lift and 202 duration. This is about as much as can be accomodated without clearance problems in the head. Let me know if I can be of further assistance.


Question: What are the stock specs for the camshafts on the SVX? Potentially, how much added performance could an SVX get from these camshafts?

(In the 3.5L NA 350Z, the Nismo R-Tune Camshafts add 15whp and cost $1,000 more!!!)
On that timing and lift figures, they have .030", 0.75mm more lift, than standard. the duration numbers don't state what lift they were measured at, so it does not tell us enought to say, but the subaru duration for the inlets is 246 degs.

If the inlet duration is increased beyound 246 you will lose the torque provided by the Inerta Inlet system, that gives the torque below 4000rpm.

Harvey.
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  #33  
Old 04-09-2004, 10:55 AM
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More info from seller!!!

I e-mailed the seller about expected gains in HP and Torque along with any dyno testing proof of these gains. This was his reply:

We haven't done dyno testing at this point. Probably will not invest this much for the small market that exists. I based my estimates on the cam manufacture's estimates of a 20% gain in both torque and hp. With the 20-25% increase in flow from the port work, 20% is a conservative estimate. Real gains will probably be more.


For $500 if these camshafts do return that much gain at the top end, I'll be willing to sacrifice some low end torque. However, I'll be a little hesitant to send someone $500 without having any dyno proof of these gains???
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  #34  
Old 04-09-2004, 07:14 PM
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Think about this:

1. Someone decides to make cams for a rare car.
2. They go to the trouble of finding some extra cams for said rare car
3. They go through the trouble of machining these cams
4. They go through the troulbe of porting the already ported (pretty much) heads.
5. They don't advertise anywhere
6. They DO NOT go through the trouble of getting a dyno pull, before and after.

Like I said, this guy is full of it. Dayle, if you feel they're REAL heads, why not buy them? You obviously have the bank to do so... besides, if they really are that great, then you can get them copied for us.

- Rob
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  #35  
Old 04-09-2004, 07:47 PM
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I second that request! His name is Willy and if you want his e-mail, just PM me.

-Chike

Quote:
Originally posted by Chicane
Dayle, if you feel they're REAL heads, why not buy them? You obviously have the bank to do so... besides, if they really are that great, then you can get them copied for us.

- Rob
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  #36  
Old 04-09-2004, 08:11 PM
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Okay, I'm a little confused by the info being passed along in this thread. If I'm reading things right, the "custom cams" in question have .030 inches more lift, but upwards of 70 degrees less duration? The additional lift should help scavange the chamber to a greater extent. Without knowing how the intake and exhaust durations compare to stock it's tough to even start figuring what the effect on performance might be. From my days of playing with a small block Chevy engine, I seem to remember that less duration and overlap resulted in smoother idle and low end => usually not higher hp/torque figures.
Hasn't Cobb played around with cams in the EG33?
=Bill
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  #37  
Old 04-09-2004, 10:40 PM
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I may be wrong, but less duration is good for higher RPMS due to valve float. Technically, they have less duration, but with stock springs, they can only close the valves so fast.... that said, I don't know all that much about cams.

I can read a dyno sheet, and this auction provides neither.

- Rob
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  #38  
Old 04-11-2004, 07:59 PM
oab_au oab_au is offline
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Cam figures.

The increased lift will help, though with only a 0.030" extra, I dont think it would be worth the money.

The duration figures were taken at a lift of about 0.050" or so. This is ok for finding the cams, fully open point, to set the lobe center, when setting the cam timing. But it does not help in finding the degress that the valve is starting to open or close. These are the figures that Subaru are quoting, to give the 236 degs duration for the inlet. These figures are measured at a very small lift to give a better idea of the opening and closing points.

The valve timing figures quoted by Subaru are,

inlet opens 2 degs BTDC closes 54 degs ABDC. duration 236degs
exhaust opens 55 degs BBDC closes 9 degs ATDC. duration 244.

To get the engine to operate at higher RPMs the duration is extended, to get the air in, in a shorter time. But as I said the Inerta system provides the extra pressure, due to the 4 degs that one inlet valve is closed, before the next inlet valve opens.

Without this 4degs of pressure build up, there is no extra pressure from the Inerta system and in consquence no extra torque below 4000rpm. If the engine is running an auto box, you would need a torque converter with a stall point of about 3500rpm to get it off the line. If it was running a manual, it would need a 6 speed to spread the torque down, to lower road speed.

To retain this low end torque, the duration should be left the same. The valve fully open point of the timing, could be retarded to move the torque point up to a higher rpm, with out loosing the Inerta torque. More lift will increse the torque through the rpm range.

As for the claims that he is making, He's pissen in the wind. Did the cam grinder, take in to account the inlet system that this engine has? or is this his, "off the hook 1/4 race cam grind"

Harvey.
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  #39  
Old 04-11-2004, 09:36 PM
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Harvey,
I think you confirmed my thoughts on lift/duration
-Bill (ah, yes....Before Top Dead Center, Before Bottom Dead Center...the small block memories start coming back )
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  #40  
Old 04-11-2004, 10:51 PM
Chicane Chicane is offline
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Yes, but according to dayle we don't know what's best for the EG33 and these are a decent deal.



- Rob
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  #41  
Old 04-11-2004, 11:05 PM
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Exactly. These cams are a great deal, and 'fine tuning' could be done to them after installation by adjusting the cam gears.

The most prolific NA cars in the US that benefit from performance camshafts are mustangs/camaros/firebirds. And even though those manufacturers probably sell over 10,000 performance camshafts a year, you'll be hard pressed to find a good set for under $500. His price on the camshafts is actually very reasonable - and from a question I posed to Dayle in another thread, he has come across no performance camshafts in either the JDM or Canadian markets. This guy is truly making a one-off product...

-Chike



Quote:
Originally posted by Chicane
Yes, but according to dayle we don't know what's best for the EG33 and these are a decent deal.



- Rob
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  #42  
Old 04-12-2004, 06:13 AM
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Did you even read harvey's post? These cams are NOT a good deal, and will NOT help your engine very much at all.

- Rob
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  #43  
Old 04-12-2004, 07:15 AM
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Talking

Ha ha! No more posting after 1am for me! I had read Harvey's post, but I totally missed the 'rolling eyes' at the end of yours!

I'll say this - for $500 I may still give this guy a call over the summer and order some camshafts. No one else makes them for the SVX, and if the timing is a little off, my tuner could adjust the cam gears for the most optimum 'dyno proven' setting.

As I'm trying to build an 300+hp NA Project SVX, there will be learning I'll do along the way. These camshafts seem like a risk worth taking - but those heads on Ebay are WAAAY too expensive and most of the hp gains are made from the camshafts anyway...

-Chike

Quote:
Originally posted by Chicane
Did you even read harvey's post? These cams are NOT a good deal, and will NOT help your engine very much at all.

- Rob
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  #44  
Old 04-12-2004, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chiketkd
The most prolific NA cars in the US that benefit from performance camshafts are mustangs/camaros/firebirds. And even though those manufacturers probably sell over 10,000 performance camshafts a year, you'll be hard pressed to find a good set for under $500. His price on the camshafts is actually very reasonable - and from a question I posed to Dayle in another thread, he has come across no performance camshafts in either the JDM or Canadian markets. This guy is truly making a one-off product...
One thing you are forgetting is the LS1/LT1 Camaro/Firebird engines are Pushrod motors...single cammers. So the $300 price i'm paying for my LPE cam for my trans am only gets me one piece...compared to $500 for four cams? I'd say that's a great deal. Try comparing the price to a mild cam set for the 1995-1998 Mustang Cobras (DOHC motor), that could give you a better idea. Based on the numbers I think it's safe to say that the cams in question will make a difference...but I think most are right in saying the effect may be undesireable to many. In truth it seems (to me) that these cams would be pretty nice for a 5 or 6-speed car, but probably dissapointing on the autos.

I have to disclaim - though I have an extensive knowledge of engine build, it is limited in a very classic way. I'm not up on DOHC engines and how cams really effect the motor, beccause it's not just a simple equation, there's all kinds of tricks used on these engines to make more power or efficiency, which I have little knowledge of. Just knowing that, I sure wouldn't be spending $2500 on a set of heads like this, nor would I buy the cam set, because though it's a good deal and wouldn't hurt that much to be out the money, the installation process is not something i'd want to do more than once. Ever.
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  #45  
Old 04-12-2004, 12:30 PM
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I plan on doing a 5spd swap within my first year of ownership. I know I will probably sacrifice some low end torque with these cams, but it's a sacrifice I'll be willing to make for approx 20+hp at the top end.

-Chike
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