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  #16  
Old 07-09-2004, 08:29 AM
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I can't speak for IRL, because I don't know the regs well, but in F1 the wheel and tire size are dictated by the rules.

We may very well see much wider rear tires soon, if the current proposed rules changes go through.
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  #17  
Old 07-09-2004, 08:43 AM
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Tyres

Funny about the tires...when F1 went to the smaller grooved tires, I thought the cars looked strange.....now I look back at the "slick tire" era and they look like Funny Cars to me. The tire technology
that allowed the smaller grooved tires to outpace the wider slicks is totally amazing. Recall that they also did away with many of the
more radical aero packages at the same time!
Don
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  #18  
Old 07-09-2004, 09:01 AM
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And from what I hear... One of the Bridgestone tires that the Ferrari rides on costs over $1000!!!! That's per tire!!
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  #19  
Old 07-09-2004, 09:12 AM
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That's piddling when you conssider their annual racing budget... Don't they have a team of tire engineers on staff to work soley on improving the tires performance???

-Chike
Quote:
Originally posted by GreenMarineSVX
And from what I hear... One of the Bridgestone tires that the Ferrari rides on costs over $1000!!!! That's per tire!!
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  #20  
Old 07-09-2004, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chiketkd
That's piddling when you conssider their annual racing budget... Don't they have a team of tire engineers on staff to work soley on improving the tires performance???

-Chike
It's really more complicated than that. There are two tire suppliers - Bridgestone and Michelin. Each of those tire suppliers has engineers who work directly with each team they supply. So Bridgestone have people working directly with Ferrari, Sauber, Jordan, etc.

The teams each dedicate some of their testing time between races to their tire suppliers. So on a three-day test, they may devote an entire day to just testing different constructions and compounds for a race in the near future.

As for the cost per tire, it's not so simple. The teams sign agreements over an entire season instead of paying for each tire on an individual basis. Those agreements are worth millions of dollars, of course. Bridgestone brings a couple thousand tires with them to every race, as does Michelin - but Michelin also bring with them a tire manufacturing facility on a truck. They haul the components of the tires and can assemble them on short notice. To provide the same level of tire customization without these machines, they'd have to haul tens of thousands of tires with them to every race. This way they can pick a construction, pick a compound and have it made right there at the track.
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  #21  
Old 07-09-2004, 10:08 AM
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Another detail I forgot to mention. The reason Jordan, Sauber and Minardi aren't as competitive on Bridgestones as Ferrari are is that the car is built for the tires and vice-versa. Bridgestone realized who their bread-and-butter was and therefore work more closely with Ferrari, whose cars now dictate the construction of those tires. The other Bridgestone teams are left to use tires that are not specifically designed for their car.

Of course, the rules now allow Bridgestone and Michelin to make custom tires for every team, but the expense involved can't be covered by those teams' budgets.
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  #22  
Old 07-09-2004, 11:35 AM
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I'd loke to learn more about tires and diffrent compounds... I think it'd be really interesting... It's kinda cool to know that it takes alot of engineering and R&D just to develop a tire... Something so many people tak efor granted...
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  #23  
Old 07-09-2004, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by GreenMarineSVX
I'd loke to learn more about tires and diffrent compounds...
Unfortunately there's not a lot of stuff you can learn about the compounds. The construction, too, is very closely guarded. But since the tires are the only place the car actually touches the road, they're terribly important and tens of millions of dollars go into tire development in F1 every year.

The tire companies themselves try to learn as much as they can about eachother's compounds, of course. Notice how the cars will travel off the racing line through the parade lap and pick up all the rubber marbles. That's partly to ensure that the meet the minimum weight spec, but also so the tire manufacturer can pick through those bits, find which ones aren't theirs, and figure out how their rival is making their tires.

There are some interesting things you can watch for, though - like how a tire distorts during different types of turns or riding curbs. I saw some surprising footage last year of a Bridgestone tire that, once it hit a curb, bounced laterally. It was really weird, and didn't explain at all why the Bridgestone-shod Ferraris could ride the curbs so well.
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  #24  
Old 07-09-2004, 08:28 PM
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I love the SUPER SLOW MOTION shots that they show on SPEED channel of the cars litterally Bouncing over the curbs... I can't wait till qualifying tomorrow!!!
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  #25  
Old 07-09-2004, 08:51 PM
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Yeah, I love those too! I also like the way the announcers speak with their British accents - kinda adds to the whole experience...

-Chike
Quote:
Originally posted by GreenMarineSVX
I love the SUPER SLOW MOTION shots that they show on SPEED channel of the cars litterally Bouncing over the curbs...
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  #26  
Old 07-09-2004, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chiketkd
Yeah, I love those too! I also like the way the announcers speak with their British accents - kinda adds to the whole experience...

-Chike
Steve Matchett has a lot of interesting things to add. I like watching the F1 Decade replays and hearing his insight from the race as a mechanic in the Benetton crew.

David Hobbs just sounds like he's drunk all the time, making up words and getting drivers' names wrong. I mean, don't get me wrong, the guy's awesome. He's just funny to listen to.
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  #27  
Old 07-09-2004, 10:09 PM
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Power is nothing without control

I think one....just one....of the advantages Ferrari has right now, is the working relationship with Bridgestone that Pockets mentioned. Watch the slow-mo of the Ferrari's suspension over
curbs and it is amazing.....there is little effect of the curb to the
handling of the car. The tire comes back down very quickly and having been disturbed to an amazingly small degree. Other cars
look like jello. The impact is transmitted more into the chassis and it causes a brief, but noticible lack of control. A tire on the pavement rather than in the air....one that comes down flat rather than at an angle....is a tire that is steering and powering the car, not wasting energy and burning itself up in the process.

I just watched Kimi crank out some very quick practice laps at Silverstone, and I have to wonder if McLaren haven't finally caught up to some of the tricks that Ferrari have had to themselves for so long. Practice is one thing.....the proof will be
seen in the race. Hopefully they have taught their Mercedes engines to not hand-grenade as they have in the past. If Kimi's
car doesn't let him down, he might be a real threat for a long-denied win this weekend.

Breakfast at Silverstone!
Don
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  #28  
Old 07-09-2004, 10:18 PM
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I really hope the new McLaren MP4 is the car that challenges Ferrari... They were doing that back in 1998 really well with that driver Mika Hakkenin... What ever happened to him???
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  #29  
Old 07-10-2004, 09:09 AM
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I'd like to see home boy Jenson Button in the British-American Racing (BAR) Honda take Silverstone. A British driver in a British car on home soil. It's like Ralf winning Hokkenheim in a BMW.
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  #30  
Old 07-10-2004, 09:24 AM
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Mika

Mika took a year off from McLaren to test the idea of retirement....found it to his liking....and then made it official.
Decided that he wanted to be with his wife and young children
more than listen to Ron Dennis. He has been playing around
with a rally car during the last winter, to keep his competitive
instincts sharp.

McLaren has a similar....perhaps even BETTER....driver in Kimi.
If they can EVER get a good car beneath the lad, Michael will
be seeing a lot more of him.

Button is another good driver....reminds me of a certain Canadian
a few years back.

Ferrari will have to dig into its bag of tricks today during qualifying
to keep ahead of Kimi.....this could get interesting!

Don
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