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  #31  
Old 01-26-2008, 07:05 PM
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I thinl it has to be...

...A defective diode, Trevor. Our cars are loaded with diodes to keep the components from bleeding through other components and causing the same result as two components in series. TA series condition has to, and will cause a portion of the voltage instead of the full voltage that it takes to do the job. While testing the circuit at the ignition switch, of course sometimes it would start and the voltage on the wire to the starter would be fine., Occasionally when it didn't, i would have an instant of full voltage and then back to 8 v or so and no start.. Then I would physically short circuit the run wire and the start wire at the switch and still it wouldn't start. LO voltage there as well.

I then went to a fused wire with a spring loaded switch to always start! Any problem with wiring in my situation would keep my relay from working the starter because I didn't change any other thing in the car. I even use the same wire from the ignition switch to close the relay!

That rules out any problem with the inhibiter switch. I would not make my car start without the safety of the inhibitor switch in the start circuit.

Trevor, I even considered the security system but it is still in my start system.

It is mind boggling. Process of elimination.... Has to be a diode. there is nothing else in the system to consider. I took the past of least resistance and rather than trying to tell which diode, I tried the relay and it works like a dream. I will probably leave well enough along and just go on with my life We have racked our brains over and over to test all the other components and that because there isn't anything else in the circuit for and would not turn on the cooling fans every time it didn't start!. Could be wrong Trevor but I couldn't make any connection. I did try!

I would swear my car starts quicker than it ever did with my relay, bot that could be from the fact that I would always break into a cold sweat from fear before turning the key to start before the relay thingie.

You just got to love this site! Everyone contributing and by putting the information together helps keep us on the road... in style!
Take care,
Keith

P.S., I could be totally wrong.....

Last edited by kwren; 01-26-2008 at 08:33 PM.
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  #32  
Old 01-26-2008, 09:37 PM
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Thanks Keith,

Problem is that any blocking diode would face backwards, so that if one conducted the protected circuit would become looped and activated rather than there being a partial short to ground and or voltage loss. The diode in the start circuit is in series with a normally closed inhibit relay associated with the cruise control unit. There is no diode evident in series within the start circuit which could cause a resistance and voltage drop.

A series resistance in the form of a poor contact, including one within the inhibitor switch, could allow the operation of a slave relay, as the relay would require far less less current than the original solenoid. Your non latching switch would also have bypassed any such fault.

Can’t agree with, --- “Has to be a diode. there is nothing else in the system to consider.” There is a lot which has not been investigated, as I mentioned in my previous post.

Your experience with cooling fans running is a strange one. The fans are controlled by the ECU and there is no direct connection to other circuits. It is of note however, that the inhibitor switch is supplied via the ECU. This aspect remains in the air.

As you say, this place keeps a guy on his toes.
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  #33  
Old 01-26-2008, 09:45 PM
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I haven't ever noticed the cooling fans come on when the car fails to start. But the car usually is cold enough that they wouldn't come on normally on a start as I only drive it to work and back regularly and it is usually cold every time I start it up.

Thanks for the insight. I am by no means an electrician but I'll do what I can to provide any info I can in working towards a solution to our problem.
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  #34  
Old 01-26-2008, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by immortal_suby View Post
I haven't ever noticed the cooling fans come on when the car fails to start. But the car usually is cold enough that they wouldn't come on normally on a start as I only drive it to work and back regularly and it is usually cold every time I start it up.

Thanks for the insight. I am by no means an electrician but I'll do what I can to provide any info I can in working towards a solution to our problem.
Thanks Matt,

Your experience rather confirms my understanding of the situation, in that Keith is the only one who has experienced the fan issue.
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  #35  
Old 01-27-2008, 12:00 AM
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Is so confusing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
Thanks Matt,

Your experience rather confirms my understanding of the situation, in that Keith is the only one who has experienced the fan issue.
and on both my cars
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  #36  
Old 02-17-2008, 12:15 PM
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Update!
She is starting fine now.

Took apart the steering column and found 2 bolts with flat heads on them floating around inside the plastic cover - no bolt/allen/screwdriver holes, just flat heads. Turns out these hold the ignition switch to the steering column. My ignition switch had always been a little loose - I never though anything of it.

Cut a slot in each one with a hacksaw to use a flat screwdriver in and put them both back in. Now she is starting just fine. Perhaps there is some grounding through the column that I had lost while these were loose/falling out? I don't know - I didn't do anything but tighten them down and now the car starts every time.

EDIT: the starting problem came back. ugh.
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Last edited by immortal_suby; 02-23-2008 at 08:42 AM.
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  #37  
Old 02-17-2008, 01:56 PM
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Great!

back on the road again... and even back home!!
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  #38  
Old 02-21-2008, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by immortal_suby View Post
Update!
She is starting fine now.

Took apart the steering column and found 2 bolts with flat heads on them floating around inside the plastic cover - no bolt/allen/screwdriver holes, just flat heads. Turns out these hold the ignition switch to the steering column. My ignition switch had always been a little loose - I never though anything of it.

Cut a slot in each one with a hacksaw to use a flat screwdriver in and put them both back in. Now she is starting just fine. Perhaps there is some grounding through the column that I had lost while these were loose/falling out? I don't know - I didn't do anything but tighten them down and now the car starts every time.
Holy crap, you're kidding! The security bolts do more than just hold it in place!? Wow. Glad to hear it's fixed though.
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  #39  
Old 02-23-2008, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomake Wan View Post
Holy crap, you're kidding! The security bolts do more than just hold it in place!? Wow. Glad to hear it's fixed though.
Well, apparently they do nothing more than hold it to the steering column. The starting problem reared it's ugly head a few times.
Back to the drawing board!
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92 Ebony LS-L. ecutune stage1v4, motorsport 1pc pulley. Garage Queen - sold to Dad in upstate NY 155,000 miles
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  #40  
Old 02-23-2008, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by immortal_suby View Post
Well, apparently they do nothing more than hold it to the steering column. The starting problem reared it's ugly head a few times.
Back to the drawing board!
probably worked from messing around with your ignition switch. The brown cap on the end warps over time and it looses the contact points. Been a problem for some people. I thought this was my issue too, but when I did the swap here is what i did...

I no longer have any stock wiring from ignition switch out, different starter, and the bolts for the switch are secure (were a bit loose before).... I also have not experienced the starting "click-" issue since.
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  #41  
Old 02-23-2008, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedklix View Post
probably worked from messing around with your ignition switch. The brown cap on the end warps over time and it looses the contact points. Been a problem for some people. I thought this was my issue too, but when I did the swap here is what i did...

I no longer have any stock wiring from ignition switch out, different starter, and the bolts for the switch are secure (were a bit loose before).... I also have not experienced the starting "click-" issue since.
Agreed here. I replaced my ignition switch and the security bolts, and everything got fine and dandy again.
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  #42  
Old 12-17-2008, 09:34 AM
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Re: Turn key, doesn't start

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Originally Posted by longassname View Post
I'm not sure that is exactly correct. I believe some people used a relay to send more current to the solenoid than the ignition key does to solve the problem but it doesn't necessarily follow that the ignition key is the problem.

Often times a great deal of the problem is the contact on the solenoid isn't very good. When you're stuck in a parking lot it never hurts to give that spade connection a jiggle and try to get it on real tight. Even better, remove the plastic and adjust the spade to actually fit on tightly.

None the less these starters do weird things when they start going bad. If you see your clock dim out when you turn the key and the car doesn't start that's not your ignition switch. That's basically a short through the starter and it sucks so much life out of the electrical system you'll register a voltage drop accross all other contact points even if they are relatively good.

If your clock doesn't dim start looking at your ignition switch.

where is the spade connector
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  #43  
Old 12-17-2008, 11:37 AM
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Re: Turn key, doesn't start

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Originally Posted by degeso View Post
where is the spade connector
That is the way the smaller wire fastens on the starter... A push on spade connector.

Keith
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