Engine won't crank over some times.

[Ikkewil]

Hello everybody,
it will take me some time to run the tests, as for today, i'll try the "gear lever trick" Tony suggested.
[hold the key in Crank position and move the Auto gear stick around. If the key is on the crank position and the neutral or park is playing up in the car it will start.]
Thank you very much for the support,
Ikke

PS: Trevor, in Milan it's been raining constantly since the beginning of the week (and it's about 8-10°C).

[TomsSVX]

I have been having starting issues with my silver lately... I knwo Gest24 is also having the same issue. It is not the starter.. If it is not the wiring like Benebob suggested it is the ignition swithc itself...

Tom

[Earthworm]

I never "fixed" the problem on my car but the relay "patch" has been working 100% for over 2 years (ever since it was installed).

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by TomsSVX

I have been having starting issues with my silver lately... I knwo Gest24 is also having the same issue. It is not the starter.. If it is not the wiring like Benebob suggested it is the ignition swithc itself...

Tom

I agree; on the basis of a logical assessment of all that has been reported at various times, the ignition switch is the most likely candidate.

[dannmarr]

I too had success with the "relay patch mode"

[benebob]

Originally Posted by TomsSVX

I have been having starting issues with my silver lately... I knwo Gest24 is also having the same issue. It is not the starter.. If it is not the wiring like Benebob suggested it is the ignition swithc itself...

Tom

At least with my fix it doesn't cost ya more than a piece of wire, some electrical tape and the splicing method of your choice. Best part about it is you don't need to do anything but use a piece of wire to test it as you can shove it in both ends of the connectors.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by benebob

Xt6s have had a clicking problem with starting but it is a power problem not a solinoid or brush problem as already brought up. If you know which wire runs from the ignition switch to the small wire going to the sol. on the starter (that one that has the single connector which slides onto the metal prong) Try putting a pig tail wire from the back of this connector to the ign connector side of this same wire (it'll be the one which shows voltage only when in start). Seems that as the wiring ages sometimes not quite enough juice flows to the starter to get it moving from the ignition switch side. It only has really surfaced on the 6 but wouldn't be suprised if the X is the same as there's 2 extra cylinders to get moving under compression, same gauge wire as is used in 4 cylinder engines.

On a side note though I don't really recommend this as a long term fix as it by-passes your safety switch meaning you'll be able to start the car in drive.

It should be noted that wiring, as such, does not increase in resistance as a result of age. However contacts in any form can. If this fix is effective, it indicates an increase in resistance, in that which has been been bypassed, and as this includes the inhibitor switch, this should be treated as suspect.

[benebob]

Originally Posted by Trevor

It should be noted that wiring, as such, does not increase in resistance as a result of age. However contacts in any form can. If this fix is effective, it indicates an increase in resistance, in that which has been been bypassed, and as this includes the inhibitor switch, this should be treated as suspect.

In a perfect world no it does not but in reality it sure does. Every time the wire gets bent, moved around etc little bits break off the strands thus decreasing the amount of juice that'll safely travel through those lines w/o reaching the point where it becomes too warm (which in turn will wear it down even quicker. Usually that isn't enough though to increase resistance more than nominally. You're right though it'll most likely be in the contact points or connects unless there was a definate kink in the wiring at some point. Now if it was that scary aluminum wiring it would have caught fire by now due to increased resistance.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by benebob

In a perfect world no it does not but in reality it sure does. Every time the wire gets bent, moved around etc little bits break off the strands thus decreasing the amount of juice that'll safely travel through those lines w/o reaching the point where it becomes too warm (which in turn will wear it down even quicker. Usually that isn't enough though to increase resistance more than nominally. You're right though it'll most likely be in the contact points or connects unless there was a definate kink in the wiring at some point. Now if it was that scary aluminum wiring it would have caught fire by now due to increased resistance.

Good one, you are a thinking sort of guy.

[Dessertrunner]

My ignition switch is falling apart and you can take the key out while the car is running. Trevor I took your advise in locating my problem I measured the voltage on the ignition crank wire down stream of the key under the dash and got full voltage but no start. I then measured the voltage again at the soliniod and got some time 0 most times 6-7v.
I then said the problem had to be between the switch and the starter (my one moment of brilliance) then Matt suggested that the full power for the solinod was going throught the Netural switch. I check and this was corrected. My next trick was to turn the cruse control on and put the car in neturel. When I moved the gear stick the relay under the dash above the glove box went nuts clicking in and out if when it was in nutrel. Then when the car wouldn't start I move the gear stick and away it went till final one day the switch went to heaven and died at which point I bypassed it till I got the relay in.
I don't think Ikke problem is the starter as he said he replaced it, I bet his problem is the security cut in that was done to install the after market system I have head that problem on two of my cars in the past.
Sorry I can't spell for sh__ and the last question how come everyone is getting rain and not me. No fair I think I am going to have to find another country.
Tony

[Ikkewil]

Hello again,
after two days of careful observation and testing, i noticed a strong connection between the engine turning on and me moving the stick lever on and off neutral (basically, if i hold the key on "start" position and play with the lever a little, on neutral it eventually turns on within a few seconds).
So far it seems the only really effective "patch" to the flaw, since it's the quickest method (and the only one that proves to work) to get the car running.
I hope this small addition can help the "knowledge holders" on their way to a reeal solution.
Thank you very much,
Ikke

[Dessertrunner]

Trevor, Harvey I have no idea were the or if the Netural/Park switch on the auto can be changed and how big a job it is. I don't want to send Ikke to the dealer unless we understand what the problem is. Could you please help us.
Tony

[oab_au]

Originally Posted by Dessertrunner

Trevor, Harvey I have no idea were the or if the Netural/Park switch on the auto can be changed and how big a job it is. I don't want to send Ikke to the dealer unless we understand what the problem is. Could you please help us.
Tony

Tony the only way to see if it is the Inhibitor switch on the box is to do a voltage reading across the switch, while the key is in the start position. It should not be more than 1V. The only fix for a bad switch is a new one.

That said, I would still fit the relay to prevent the new switch from going the same way. Subaru should have fitted the relay as standard, to handle the current that flows through this circuit. Most cars have one fitted to the starter circuit.

Harvey.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Dessertrunner

Trevor, Harvey I have no idea were the or if the Netural/Park switch on the auto can be changed and how big a job it is. I don't want to send Ikke to the dealer unless we understand what the problem is. Could you please help us.
Tony

The contacts form part of the inhibitor switch, which is located on the right hand side of the transmission housing. The Mechanical operation is rather convoluted and adjustment could be the problem, rather than contact failure. However the latter is also likely as the mechanism is located in a place subject to dirt and moisture.

If you get someone to assist, you will be able to trouble shoot better by being able to observe the functions when the shift lever is operated. My manual shows that the wires to the contacts in question are, black/white and black/yellow. BY goes to the solenoid and should provide a solid 12 volts when a start signal is delivered. Do a test while moving the switch levers etc about. Do a voltage test with the solenoid connected, so that the circuit is presented with a load.

Edit, P.S. You can do a voltage drop test as Harvey as suggested, but a voltage test may be may be easier from the access point of view, and could be done at the solenoid end, where wire identification could be simpler.

There is another thread alive, showing that this switch is in fact the item to suspect and you are therefore on the right track. When you do get it sorted, please report back as the information will be of real value to others.

[Dessertrunner]

Tom I have given your problem some thought and it would be worth you mesuaring the voltage on the ignition wire from the switch as I was sure it was the key and when I check the voltage it was full 12 v. If I understand your wiring correctly you have the igination going throught the clutch peddle if that is correct the switch on the peddle may be failing. Worth checking.
Tony