Bush Did It Right

Originally Posted by mohrds

I'm very familiar with HIRSP. I've been on it for about 4 years now. ......
Socialized medicine like Canada has is not an option, It creates a dependency on the government and lowers quality of care.
Doug

I'm not being sarcastic here, just want to know. How is HIRSP different from socialized medicine? Until 2003, HIRSP was partially funded with $12 million in state general-purpose revenue (GPR) dollars. My understanding is that the program is now having money problems as a result of the GPR funds being cut off, and is either going to increase the amount that health providers are forced to contribute, expand the contribution base to include drug companies, and as a last resort go back to GPR funding. When you force companies to contribute, that sure sounds like a tax to me. And I guarrantee that the health providing companies will figure out a way to pass on that tax.

If you were to put everyone in the State into this program, then by default you're talking universal healthcare where a single basic plan is given to all, and then I suppose upgrades can be done by the individuals to add extras like private hospital rooms etc. Hmm... sounds a lot like OHIP, the Ontario Health Insurance Plan.

By the way, there is no one single health plan for Canada. Each province runs its own. The Federal Gov't provides for basic standards that must be met, but each province is free to add more services than the basic federal requirements. You can supplement the basics with extra private insurance like Blue Cross.


Well, I guess healthcare isn't one of the success stories. Any out there?

[mohrds]

Originally Posted by Bipa

I'm not being sarcastic here, just want to know. How is HIRSP different from socialized medicine? Until 2003, HIRSP was partially funded with $12 million in state general-purpose revenue (GPR) dollars. My understanding is that the program is now having money problems as a result of the GPR funds being cut off, and is either going to increase the amount that health providers are forced to contribute, expand the contribution base to include drug companies, and as a last resort go back to GPR funding. When you force companies to contribute, that sure sounds like a tax to me. And I guarrantee that the health providing companies will figure out a way to pass on that tax.

If you were to put everyone in the State into this program, then by default you're talking universal healthcare where a single basic plan is given to all, and then I suppose upgrades can be done by the individuals to add extras like private hospital rooms etc. Hmm... sounds a lot like OHIP, the Ontario Health Insurance Plan.

By the way, there is no one single health plan for Canada. Each province runs its own. The Federal Gov't provides for basic standards that must be met, but each province is free to add more services than the basic federal requirements. You can supplement the basics with extra private insurance like Blue Cross.

I can see where you are confused but HIRSP is not a government agency. It is a cooperative between major insurance companies that is required to join if you want to sell health insurance in Wisconsin. It was partially funded by the general tax plan but still was much cheaper (and better) than the old welfare health system was on the tax burden.

You are not required to join HIRSP. You do not automatically get benifits the day you are born. It is an insurance company just like any other, but has no health restrictions. You just pay your premiums and go about your business.

Unfortunatly our wonderful govener and assembly is cutting everything that doesn't have the word "Casino" in it. All of our money saved from the move from welfare to "Wisconsin Works" ended up getting channeled into state jets, flying our worthless govenor to foreign countries and immense government expansion.

Doug

[Myxalplyx]

If you add up the name 'George Bush' in Hebrew letters it comes out:

G = 3 (gimel)
e = 5 (heh)
o = 70 (ayin)
r = 200 (resh)
g = 3 (gimel)
e = 5 (heh)
B = 2 (beth)
u = 70 (ayin)
s = 300 (shin)
h = 8 (cheth)
total = 666 (Antichrist)

But hold on, because we’re not through yet. ASCII stands for American Standard Code for Information Interchange. The computer you're using to read this can only understand numbers, and ASCII is the numerical representation of a character such as ‘B’ or else an action of some sort. If you add up Bush's name in ASCII, you get 71+101+111+114+103+101 for George, 87+97+108+107+101+114 for Walker, and 66+117+115+104 for Bush, which adds up to a total of 1617 = 1+6+1+7 = 15 = 1+5 = 6.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by Myxalplyx

If you add up the name 'George Bush' in Hebrew letters it comes out:

G = 3 (gimel)
e = 5 (heh)
o = 70 (ayin)
r = 200 (resh)
g = 3 (gimel)
e = 5 (heh)
B = 2 (beth)
u = 70 (ayin)
s = 300 (shin)
h = 8 (cheth)
total = 666 (Antichrist)

But hold on, because we’re not through yet. ASCII stands for American Standard Code for Information Interchange. The computer you're using to read this can only understand numbers, and ASCII is the numerical representation of a character such as ‘B’ or else an action of some sort. If you add up Bush's name in ASCII, you get 71+101+111+114+103+101 for George, 87+97+108+107+101+114 for Walker, and 66+117+115+104 for Bush, which adds up to a total of 1617 = 1+6+1+7 = 15 = 1+5 = 6.

ok, lay off the pipe there, Farrakhan.

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by Landshark

ok, lay off the pipe there, Farrakhan.

Hey! That's what Laura told Bush back in the 80's.

Bush is teh Devil !!

[Phast SVX]

Originally Posted by mohrds

Phil - Are you in Milwaukee now? For how long?

i was in town for about 2 months, im looking at a fulltime job there, ill let you know whats up

Bipa,
You completely missed my point. You may understand economic perspectives but you dont understand the social implications. But nice try on the random internet search and article post . You are a smart woman, you know that even the best of strategic plans is no different than the worst unless you can implement it;aka reach the point of inflection within population.
phil

Originally Posted by Phast SVX

i was in town for about 2 months, im looking at a fulltime job there, ill let you know whats up

Bipa,
You completely missed my point. You may understand economic perspectives but you dont understand the social implications. But nice try on the random internet search and article post . You are a smart woman, you know that even the best of strategic plans is no different than the worst unless you can implement it;aka reach the point of inflection within population.
phil

Phil... I guess I'm still missing the point. What social implications are you talking about? Hmm... how about the social implication when a country decides to ignore its most valuable resource - its people?

It wasn't a random internet search and post. I figured that there must be some sort of special situation going on in Milwuakee that should be checked out since you pointed it out. So I did. But I didn't find anything unusual going on there. Just the same rot in the for-profit health system.

In most western civilised countries, health insurance is either universal, or must be carried by law. To use Switzerland as an example, all health insurance is private but every adult living there MUST BY LAW have health insurance. Children are always carried on the parent's insurance. Employers are not obligated to provide health insurance, and many don't. My husband's firm didn't and so we had to go out and get quotes from several before deciding which one.

Here in Germany there is a mix of public and private. The largest is gov't run and is very popular with the public, but you can easily decide to go with a private insurer if you wish to have more comprehensive coverage. Again, companies don't have to provide health coverage.

So what is your point? That people won't buy insurance unless forced to? Heck, I'm not even that far in this discussion ... I'm still trying to figure out how it is possible that people who actually want health insurance can't get it or can't afford the premiums.

I have at no time stated that a socialised medical system is the only way to go. Perhaps I haven't made myself clear. I have seen private health insurance working very well in an open market economy - Switzerland. But for some reason, the system as it has been set up in the USA isn't working.

Originally Posted by Electrophil

Hey! That's what Laura told Bush back in the 80's.

Bush is teh Devil !!

Hey.... wrong thread!

And I think you just insulted Satan

Here's a totally random post

So tell me, what does this mean? Have I found a success story in how some States are improving their health services to citizens?


Doyle Extends Prescription-Drug Deals With Canadian Pharmacies
Governor: 4,700 Orders Placed Through State Web Site

UPDATED: 7:01 pm CST February 24, 2006
WISC-TV

MILWAUKEE -- A program that allows Wisconsin residents to order prescription drugs from Canada has been extended for two more years.

The program, launched in 2004, allows residents to use a state Web site to order drugs from three preapproved Canadian pharmacies.

The program was scheduled to expire on Friday.

Under the terms of the extension, the state will again send inspectors to approve each pharmacy.

Gov. Jim Doyle said that between February 2004 and November 2005, more than 4,700 orders were placed through the state Web site.

Drugs in Canada can be about 40 percent cheaper than those in the United States.

[mohrds]

Originally Posted by Bipa

Here's a totally random post

So tell me, what does this mean? Have I found a success story in how some States are improving their health services to citizens?


Doyle Extends Prescription-Drug Deals With Canadian Pharmacies
Governor: 4,700 Orders Placed Through State Web Site

UPDATED: 7:01 pm CST February 24, 2006
WISC-TV

MILWAUKEE -- A program that allows Wisconsin residents to order prescription drugs from Canada has been extended for two more years.

The program, launched in 2004, allows residents to use a state Web site to order drugs from three preapproved Canadian pharmacies.

The program was scheduled to expire on Friday.

Under the terms of the extension, the state will again send inspectors to approve each pharmacy.

Gov. Jim Doyle said that between February 2004 and November 2005, more than 4,700 orders were placed through the state Web site.

Drugs in Canada can be about 40 percent cheaper than those in the United States.

Its pretty simple. Drugs sold in the US have higher manufacturing tolerences than in Canada and many other countries. The active ingredients are identical, but the inert ingredients are regulated in the US and not in Canada. The inert ingredients can cause interractions with other drugs or allergies leading to death. The US drugs are safer. The interactions can be forseen by doctors and pharmacists when they are disclosed and controlled, but not when you don't know what inert ingredients are in there.

Also, the Doyle plan is currently in court as it is in violation of many federal and Wisconsin's own laws. It is not expected to last.

Once the first person dies from drug interraction on the governor's plan, there will be huge lawsuits, my state taxes will skyrocket (again) and the press will destroy the Canadian drug import market. It will probably be time to move to another state then.

Originally Posted by mohrds

Its pretty simple. Drugs sold in the US have higher manufacturing tolerences than in Canada and many other countries. The active ingredients are identical, but the inert ingredients are regulated in the US and not in Canada. The inert ingredients can cause interractions with other drugs or allergies leading to death. The US drugs are safer. The interactions can be forseen by doctors and pharmacists when they are disclosed and controlled, but not when you don't know what inert ingredients are in there.

Also, the Doyle plan is currently in court as it is in violation of many federal and Wisconsin's own laws. It is not expected to last.

Once the first person dies from drug interraction on the governor's plan, there will be huge lawsuits, my state taxes will skyrocket (again) and the press will destroy the Canadian drug import market. It will probably be time to move to another state then.

ROTFLOL! Wait a bit and let me wipe the tears from my eyes.... yeah... we have so many deaths in Canada due to bad prescription drugs... in the news every day.....

[mohrds]

Originally Posted by Bipa

ROTFLOL! Wait a bit and let me wipe the tears from my eyes.... yeah... we have so many deaths in Canada due to bad prescription drugs... in the news every day.....

Fine. Believe what you want. I'll believe the scientists.

Isn't Canada one of the last countries to not have banned Asbestos?

Canada "manipulating" the truth
A paper in the November 2003 edition of the American Journal of Industrial Medicine (AJIM) concludes: "The Canadian government in partnership with the asbestos mining industry has a long history of manipulating scientific data to generate results that support claims that their product is 'innocuous'".
David Egilman and others. Exposing the Myth of ABC, Anything But Chrysotile: A critique of the Canadian asbestos mining industry and McGill University chrysotile studies.

Yup, Canada is always putting their citizen's health as their top priority above economics

Kind of sums up socialized medicine, doesn't it?

[Phast SVX]

Originally Posted by Bipa

Phil... I guess I'm still missing the point. What social implications are you talking about? Hmm... how about the social implication when a country decides to ignore its most valuable resource - its people?

It wasn't a random internet search and post. I figured that there must be some sort of special situation going on in Milwuakee that should be checked out since you pointed it out. So I did. But I didn't find anything unusual going on there. Just the same rot in the for-profit health system.

In most western civilised countries, health insurance is either universal, or must be carried by law. To use Switzerland as an example, all health insurance is private but every adult living there MUST BY LAW have health insurance. Children are always carried on the parent's insurance. Employers are not obligated to provide health insurance, and many don't. My husband's firm didn't and so we had to go out and get quotes from several before deciding which one.

Here in Germany there is a mix of public and private. The largest is gov't run and is very popular with the public, but you can easily decide to go with a private insurer if you wish to have more comprehensive coverage. Again, companies don't have to provide health coverage.

So what is your point? That people won't buy insurance unless forced to? Heck, I'm not even that far in this discussion ... I'm still trying to figure out how it is possible that people who actually want health insurance can't get it or can't afford the premiums.

I have at no time stated that a socialised medical system is the only way to go. Perhaps I haven't made myself clear. I have seen private health insurance working very well in an open market economy - Switzerland. But for some reason, the system as it has been set up in the USA isn't working.

YOU WOULD"T MAKE IT HALFWAY DOWN THE ****ING STREET!
jesus....you really don't have the social perspective, unless its in a current article or publication do you?

[Landshark]

cliff notes:

Canuckistan is teh bestest country evAr, George Bush is teh Devil.


/thread

[Phast SVX]

Originally Posted by Landshark

cliff notes:

Canuckistan is teh bestest country evAr, George Bush is teh Devil.


/thread

Are we getting along? the end must really be near

!!1!onehundred!!