Mobil 1 for Older Cars

I notice there's a new type Mobil 1 for older cars, supposedly fine for older seals. Also, I heard great things about the new Valvoline for older cars. Any thoughts?

[lee]

Don't know about Valvoline. For the M1, I'm guessing you're reading the label on the 10w-30 SuperSyn, yes?

I personally think this is advertising hype vice something different. Don't get me wrong, I'm a M1 user in my engine, differentials and tranny! MAYBE they upped the ester to PAO ratio or added anti-wear additives for the Older Car oil over other M1 products, but I doubt it.

If you have been using regular dino oil (which includes "fake" synthetics by Quaker State, Castrol, Penzoil, Shell, etc), then you need to run a seal conditioner on a straight dino oil for awhile before switching over to a Group IV/V oil like M1 (or Redline, Royal Purple, some AMSOIL). If you don't, you run the risk of seeing new oil leaks out of the seals.

What happens is the PAO basestock in M1 (redline, etc) cleans up all the old gunk (technical term there) without conditioning the seals and then oil starts to flow out the seals and results in people bad-mouthing synthetics.

If you are serious about the switch to synthetics, reply and I can get a little deeper into this if you want.

I had tried castrol 20-50 full synthetic and had a great response to it. it was wanderful then for my next oil change i did mobile one 15 -50 and it was terrible i had to replcae the oile within a couple weeks it was all gone. maybe u could give me a couple hints on that

Don

Lee, Could you elaborate on your comments about Castrol Syntec. I've used it for over 500K miles mostly on Saab turbos with great results. (and the SVX) Dave aka Boone .

I ran Syntec in my XT Turbo from 90,000 miles to 170,000, very happily. I am very interested in the "seal conditioners" mentioned (which appear to be what Valvoline uses). Right now I'm using Castrol GTX in my SVX @ 151,000 miles. It burns almost no oil between 3K changes, so I'm not convinced I should now change to synthetic. I did have all the seals replaced (except the rear which I'm told requires a pull of the engine). Right now, I have no leaks (that I know about). Anyway I was intrigued by the "new" Mobil 1 that implies it is intended for "older" higher mileage cars -- thus addressing the potential leakage issue.

By the way, I'm SO thankful that this is the kind of thing we can be bandying about. Life is good.

[lee]

Originally posted by Boone
Lee, Could you elaborate on your comments about Castrol Syntec.

As usual my fingers on the keyboard get out in front of my brain. Let me explain a little. And of course for anybody who can correct, please do. Castrol, Penzoil, etc use what is known as Group III basestock for their full synthetic. Group III is a hydrocracked group I or II oil. So without having a chemistry degree (I'm a physicist) it might best be represented as an improved oil. What M1, Redline, etc use is a mix of PAO and Esters (Group IV and V respectively) which are chemically synthesized and not really an oil at all in the traditional sense. These are the synthetics that were developed for jet engines (which I believe are primarily Group V while M1, Redline etc are mostly Group IV with some V to keep from shrinking the seals (esters do better at seal protection), gotta have some price competition and Group V is more costly than Group IV.

A few years back Mobil sued Castrol in world court for claiming "full synthetic" for their Group III oil. The court ruled that hydro-cracking was enough of a "synthetic" process they could use the name - but it really isn't a synthetic - I believe it will sieze a modern jet turbine.

Castrol and others may make fine oils, not trying to disparage any company. GTX and Penzoil products are frequently mentioned as among the better of the Group II oils. Please understand I think Group III "synthetics" are an improvement over Group II, just not as much as Group IV/V. For example, I wouldn't want to try an extended drain interval with a Group III, but might with Group IV/V. I personally pick M1 because it meets the new European specs (edit: ACEA A3/B3, etc) which are much more stringent than the API SL rating - and of course I can readily get it at WallyWorld, etc.

All I really was posting was a warning about going from a Group II or III oil to a group IV/V without using a seal conditioner. Unless the seals are new or nearly new, one DOES run a risk of having a leak develop. And simply going back to straight dino may not work as the seals likely have been cleaned by the use of the M1 (or other brand of Group IV/V). As an aside, Group I is the old mineral oil which I'm assuming nobody puts in their car.

I have no way of knowing which seal conditioners are good or bad - I have heard good things about this company...

http://www.auto-rx.com/

Finally, opinions vary wildly, I try to suck them all in and make sense, but in the end it's just my opinion then isn't it?...YMMV.

So Lee, do you know or is there a way to find out if the new Valvoline oil (with seal conditioners) uses the ingredients you recommend for seal conditioning? Your input is very informative and helpful.

[lee]

Originally posted by billisa
So Lee, do you know or is there a way to find out if the new Valvoline oil (with seal conditioners) uses the ingredients you recommend for seal conditioning? Your input is very informative and helpful.

thanks for the kind words.

unfortunately no, I don't even know if the Valvoline has lots of conditioners, or just hype (like I attributed to M1). maybe somebody with a chemistry background could read the MSDS and find out. I have no idea what makes a seal conditioner, and so I could read the sheet, see the CAS numbers, and still not know it when I saw it. Only other way would be to get an oil analysis done with two types of Valvoline or Mobil 1 and see if there was a chemical difference or just an advertising difference - since I usually start out a pessimist when reading labels, I vote advertising until proven wrong, but that's just me.