Mid Engine SVX concept. - Page 3

Dessertrunner · #31 10-09-2012, 06:42 PM

Okay here is the link to the project car, need to start with a really good car.
Tony

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/d...-1993-10965297

zaueugen · #32 10-10-2012, 08:35 AM

This is the best idea ever!!

Dessertrunner · #33 10-11-2012, 11:37 PM

Hi guys, I seek counsel,

I have the project car home, picked it up yesterday which required 11 hours driving. The car was very good and didn't miss a beat. For those that don't know I also brought an other SVX 3 week earlier. This car has rego but is pretty knocked around. It is a 92 red with black roof and was in a crash but repaired so the guard and bonnet are different colours. The back corner above the left rear wheel is damaged.

My question as this car will be parted out I am thinking of first cutting this car up and sorting out the problems with mounting the rear engine. Not suggesting that I convert the car over just that I use it as a scarifical SVX so I can do the second one correctly. You know the way it is when you do a job twice its always better the second time.

So what do you think ??????

Tony

flamestone · #34 10-11-2012, 11:52 PM

The seller of that '93 must have been stoked! It's been for sale longer than I can remember.

And yeah sounds like a good idea. You can pop all the glass and cut away as much as you need so you know exactly what you're dealing with.

Theoretically you won't need to do any experimenting on the final product - you'll already know.

Should I PM you a list of spare parts I would happily take off your hands while you're at it?

Dessertrunner · #35 10-12-2012, 03:43 AM

Okay I have decided it would be smarter to start on the rough one first then move to the newer one. As part of this the rough car could be sorted out by using it on time attack track car.

Started to work out the cutting, I feel that all the mid engine project cars to date have been cut to much. Basicly they seem to want all the braces between the two side to be cut out. This doesn't sound smart to me as the cross bracing in the back gives the body rigidity so that it doesn't flex. From my standpoint My approach is going be to keep ever exisitng brace in place. Then later we can cut some out.

Talk weight,
Harvey is always talking about the SVX being to heavy, when I look at the weight of Bazza's car its easy to understand Harveys point. Clearly we won't be able to match Bazza car weight but the car wheel base is more suited to track racing so what we lose on being to heavy we may gain by better handling.

The diet is,
Pull seats,
Remove carpet and sound proofing,
Replace the boot with a fibre glass unit (SVX unit is really heavy to improve handling.
Tail shaft,
Rear diff,
Smaller exhaust.
Back seats,
For racing all windows with perspect,
Internals of windows.
Rear spoiler,
Change steering wheel and column.
Reamove climate control etc.
Lighten dash,
Change front bonnet.
Sun roof,

Tony

flamestone · #36 10-12-2012, 04:08 AM

Yep. Add lightness I say.

So... drivetrain? A transaxle conversion?

And suspension? There's gotta be a couple of kgs to be lost with modern coilovers.

crazyhorse · #37 10-12-2012, 04:38 AM

Handling may end up being a bone of contention here. With the weight shifted rearward, and rwd, it will be very tail happy. I know that in the few short weeks i drove mine with a locked center clutch, and no front halfshafts, it was a great drifter. It also had loads of understeer. Shifting the weight to the rear, you will have to build some understeer back in.

Dessertrunner · #38 10-12-2012, 05:03 AM

What happens is that the handling improves, the best weight ratio is 40% front 60% back. To acheive we are mounting the the motor behind the driver.
Tony

flamestone · #39 10-12-2012, 03:02 PM

And a custom fuel cell to the front?

bazza · #40 10-12-2012, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dessertrunner

.

Talk weight,
Harvey is always talking about the SVX being to heavy, when I look at the weight of Bazza's car its easy to understand Harveys point. Clearly we won't be able to match Bazza car weight but the car wheel base is more suited to track racing so what we lose on being to heavy we may gain by better handling.

The diet is,
Pull seats,
Remove carpet and sound proofing,
Replace the boot with a fibre glass unit (SVX unit is really heavy to improve handling.
Tail shaft,
Rear diff,
Smaller exhaust.
Back seats,
For racing all windows with perspect,
Internals of windows.
Rear spoiler,
Change steering wheel and column.
Reamove climate control etc.
Lighten dash,
Change front bonnet.
Sun roof,

Tony

Just ensure you understand the entire picture with regards to the wheelbase as it's not just about the wheel base but the ratio between wheel base and wheel track. Here are a few examples of the wheelbase to wheel track ratio:

Lambo: 1.59
Bazza STI: 1.61
Zonda: 1.64
11 Lotus: 1.64
22B: 1.67
07 STI: 1.69
02 WRX / STI: 1.70
SVX 1.75
RS: 1.77
Outback: 1.81

I owned an RS and a WRX at the same time many years ago with near identical mods, except the RS had about 50 kw more power. The Legacy RS also has a 6 cm longer wheelbase. I took both cars to Mallala and the difference of that 6 cm of wheelbase was worth 1.5 seconds and you can really feel it - I used to do a heap of driving in the hills in Adelaide back then in both cars and the short wheel base makes a difference - it's also why everybody in Time Attack using Subaru's runs the GC8 rather than the RS Legacy chassis even though there isn't to much weight difference.

So just make sure you look at the ratio because long wheel base alone is bad for circuit work such as the SVX - however increase the wheel base and get that ratio down to say 1.65 and it will work a treat on the circuit.

Dessertrunner · #41 10-13-2012, 12:37 AM

Well the cut is complete, I am dumb founded how well it went its as if Subaru had it planned all along. Just need to get my head around the reinstall and the new engine subframe. Its surprising how far the job progressed in one day, the plan of attack was worked out and it flowed. Biggest problem was my wife fueled the car last night so I had to deal with 70l of fuel before pulling the tank.

Engine location is cut I managed to keep the main beams so now it comes the time to figure how to mount the engine and gearbox back in. I was thinking of using the front hub assembly then I remember that on a road regristered I need to have handbrake etc and on a road car it would be good to have the ABS. So I think I have a way to do the engine install and make it all work.

Here are a couple of pics, just need to find somewere to post the rest of them.
I am going to write up a procedure so I can do it again with all the improvements.

Have a good day all.
Tony

crazyhorse · #42 10-13-2012, 03:03 AM

Thats an awful good start! I wish i could do that much in a day.

How close are the dimensions on a front subframe to the rear? I cant think of a better way than a factory setup to mount a torquey eg33. Im assuming, as dangerous as that can be, that you will be doing at least a 4 point roll bar. Using the bar to shore up the mounting would ease the engineering tasks.

icingdeath88 · #43 10-13-2012, 10:07 AM

Holy crap Tony you work fast. Looks great.

Conn SVX · #44 10-13-2012, 10:58 AM

That's not just fast, that is holy ^%<%<*¥% FAST. should be done by next Friday at this rate

Dessertrunner · #45 10-13-2012, 03:49 PM

To speed the job up used a rattle gun to remove the bolt. Saved heaps of time.

I have to get my head around how I get to the motor for services etc, I had intended short term to leave the large back window in place but that may cause issues with getting at the engine.

Tested the front suspension cross beam in the back today, its not going to work that way I will need to stick with the first plan of mounting the the engine & gearbox onto the rear diff sub frame. To do this I will have to create a jig to mount the subframe so when its cut it doesn't go out of aligment. Then bring the engine and gearbox from underneath.

Today I will pull the engine & gearbox out of the car.

Keep well all.
Tony