Looking to replace the minivan

[SVXRide]

My wife has grown tired of our '96 Grand Caravan and is looking for a replacement that would get better gas mileage, be smaller (but still be capable of hauling house/kid stuff around, and be a little sportier. She actually mentioned "how about one of those Subarus...are they called Foresters?". So, my question to the Network is "what would you suggest - Forester? Outback? - and what year(s) would be best (no, I can't afford a new one!)"
Thanks.
-Bill

[Subie59]

Both come highly recommended. i think you pay a premium for the forrester because of the "cool" factor. I would go for the outback myself.But if you really want to save money, I would go for the legacy wagon. Cheaper and pretty much the same as the Outback with a slightly better ride and a few less gadgets..

[Mike621]

Bill,

My suggestion would be either a Legacy/Outback Wagon 2004 or newer, after the head gasket issues were resolved. .

The Forester catches too much wind on the highway for my liking and it isn't very roomy when compared to the Legacy.

Good Luck shopping.

[SVX_MY_BABY]

I had a Chevy van and wanted to down size. Looked at the Forester & Legacy but ended up getting a PT Cruiser. Great & capable car with lots of ability to haul stuff easily. Also check out the "B" class Mercedes. Cheaper than Subaru & loads of room. It wasn't on the market when I got the PT.

[shelfy]

Originally Posted by SVX_MY_BABY

I had a Chevy van and wanted to down size. Looked at the Forester & Legacy but ended up getting a PT Cruiser. Great & capable car with lots of ability to haul stuff easily. Also check out the "B" class Mercedes. Cheaper than Subaru & loads of room. It wasn't on the market when I got the PT.

No B Class in the states. that'll happen.

[BoxerFanatic]

Sorry, this got long... You can skip to the end for a bit of a summary...

in the US, model year 2005 was a new bodystyle for the Outback and Legacy that is still current for 2009. 2010 is bringing a new bodystyle that was just revealed the other day... Outbacks will be revealed in the fall.

2000-2004 Outbacks had the 3.0 liter H6 optional, where Baja and Legacy did not, and were 4cylinder NA, and Baja had a 4-cylinder turbo option. Similar vintage Foresters had a turbocharged XT model as well, with the WRX's engine. I believe Outback Sport (outback version of 5-door impreza) and certainly Saab 9^2x were offered with and without turbocharging.

For 2005-06, Legacy offered both sedan and wagon bodystyles, including the turbocharged GT, with more horsepower than standard WRX, but less than STI, there are manual transmission equipped models, but they are rare. Outback continued to be the only option for the H6 engine, and automatic only, but it is a 5-speed automatic, with vehicle dynamics control, and variable torque distribution AWD on the high end VDC and LL Bean models. The Outback Sedan also was H6 only, Legacy had no H6 offering.

for 07-09, The Legacy went to sedan only. 08 and 09 models received the H6 engine option for the Legacy 3.0R, in addition to 2.5i and 2.5 GT turbo. (and Spec B turbo with more options, but only 6MT and limited colors)

The Outback conversely went to Wagon only, also with 2.5i, 2.5XT turbo, and 3.0R base and loaded models, Outback sedan was dropped. H6 offered with 5-speed auto only.

06 also saw the introduction of the B9 Tribeca. The 06-07 models had the "schnozz" grille, similar to the 07 Impreza lineup, but was not well received. It shared the 3.0R/5-speed auto drivetrain with Outback, but comes with bigger brakes, and 5x114 wheels, which only it and SVX, and 2005-current WRX STI share in recent Subaru history. All other Subarus use 5x100 bolt pattern wheels/brakes.

The '08 Tribeca got a very quick face-lift, to a more outback-like grille, and adopted the bored and stroked EZ36 3.6 liter H6, with the 5-speed auto still the only transmission. The EZ36 gets similar horsepower and torque numbers to the 3.0, but doesn't require premium fuel, where the 3.0R does. It has been a slow seller, though, still.

The 2010 Outback and Legacy are also going to share the 3.6 H6 engine, and are also getting a new CVT transmission, but I am not sure if it is only for the 2.5i non-turbo engine, or if it will also apply to the H6. The GT Turbo Legacy will be 6-speed manual only, and I believe the XT outback turbo may be dropped.

Forester got a new bodystyle for '09 based on the 05+ Legacy/Outback, and the 08+ Impreza, and has been much better received than the Tribeca, but does not offer an H6 engine option. It only offers a 2.5i with 4-speed automatic or 5-speed manual, or XT Turbo, with only the 4-speed automatic, which is a very strange limitation.

The 09 Forester has been ascribed to be most of the reason why Subaru posts sales growth every month over the previous year, while almost every other company posts double-digit declines in this economy.

Both the '09 Forester and the Tribecas both offer better rear seat leg-room than the Legacy/Outback, which is a bit short, but liveable. The Tribeca also offers more width in the cabin, and some are equipped with a third row seat, to seat 7. The 2010 Legacy and Outback chassis has grown in size, and will probably be more generous in the interior room, but also larger in every exterior dimension by about 3 inches.

Summary/recommendations:---------

For house and kid stuff, I would probably be looking at 05-08 Outbacks, maybe Legacy, if you like sedans.
Outback has better cargo capability, of course. Legacy wagons, especially turbo GTs, are probably the most fun with the added practicality over the sedan model, but also the rarest to find, and not offered after 2006, and not turbocharged before 2005.
Maybe try the classifieds over at legacygt.com's forums... That is where I found my 05 GT-manual sedan, although I did fly 1400 miles to VT, and drove the car back to IA, to get just the right car. Most people wouldn't do that, but I couldn't find one at the dealers within 500 miles of me in the midwest. The east coast is probably better for inventory and proximity, especially new england.

I would be looking for 04-08 Forester trade ins from people upgrading to the new Forester bodystyle, and get as new and well-optioned as possible with your budget.

Or, I would REALLY be looking to see if there are any smokin' deals on hold-over 08 Tribecas, or a used Tribeca, that dealers are trying to get rid of, if it can fit your budget, but it probably isn't a tremendous amount smaller than your minivan. If you don't mind the styling. 08 is better than 06-07.

With dealers on the brink, and sales in the tank, if you have the ability to buy, financially, now is not a bad time... Deals can be had on new and late model used cars, as dealers need the sales and the income. They may be willing to deal more than before, to keep you from walking away, even on used. Although used cars are now a bit more popular than new, because family budgets are also not exactly over-flowing with cash, but sales across the board are way down.

[STeeL25T]

The picture in Seraphinwolf's sig has made me fall in love with the Outback Sport.

[kcbsvx]

Bill-

I would agree with Mike- an Outback, Legacy or Forester.

I have owned more than a dozen Sube wagons since the mid 80's and they are safe, reliable, fun to drive, and last forever if you feed them an occasional CV shaft or a brake job.

Be sure you invest in a nice fat rear sway bar (Rallitek's are nice) as it will positively transform the car and put that big smile on your face.

Christian

[maynardg]

I've had both Forester and Outback. Love them both, but give the edge to Outback. If you are not terribly performance oriented the 4-cyl has plenty of zip.

I see no reason to ever buy anything but a Subaru.

[SVXRide]

Everyone,

thanks for the feedback! Additional feedback on any year/options we should avoid would be appreciated (example - Mike's comment about HGs!)

-Bill

[Mike621]

You may also want to check out a 1999 Legacy SE wagon, if you can find one with low miles. That year featured a 2.2Liter which was not prone to the HG issues the 2.5s normally are. That edition has cloth seats, but has moonroof and other good features.

[Green1995SVX]

Bill-

My recommendation would be an Audi Allroad. I have an A6 wagon (basically the same car) and am nearing 200k trouble-free miles.

Very comfy, plenty of room, very luxurious, and cheaper than you'd think.

PS- I have access to dealer wholesale auctions and can find you anything you need.

[subeman90]

I have owned an OB and a Forester and I would say that the OB would win hands down over the Forester. I also think that the "newer" bodystyle would be the one to get. I drove an 05 LL Bean with the 3.0 in it and was in love with it.

I disagree with mike about the 99 Legacy SE. My parents had one and my ex-wife had one...neither of which was trouble free and both were sold before either had 85k on them. (tranny slips and oil leaks etc.)

I do agree with the other mike though...I like the all-road and I drove one once and thought it was one heck of a cool car (it really had some scoot for an automatic).

[shelfy]

i liked the all-road too, but don't they get horrendous gas mileage?

[subeman90]

Originally Posted by shelfy

i liked the all-road too, but don't they get horrendous gas mileage?

he has a govt job so he can afford it.