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  #31  
Old 05-20-2004, 02:15 PM
Ron Mummert Ron Mummert is offline
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Wink

[
As a result, I presume he would have the right to ban me for this post - or just because he decided to hate the name "lee". I believe it would also be within his rights to "fire" all the mods and replace them daily if he saw fit. It's obvious he could just pull the plug - no notice - and then we're all "banned".



This reminds me of another web site called www.trump.orgy

You sign up & visit forums called Grovel, Suckup, & Kow-tow. If you fail to check in daily & bestow homage upon The Donald, YOU'RE FIRED!!! & must visit www.jerryspringer.ugh everyday for a month in order to get back in.
See how kind & gentle we are here?

Ron.
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  #32  
Old 05-20-2004, 02:22 PM
LarryIII LarryIII is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by lee


I assume this was a serious question, and so I'll give my version of an answer. To the best of my knowledge, Chris is the owner of the hardware and Internet domain name that makes this forum possible.
If/when the day comes people pay dues to post on this site, then it's a horse of a different color.

Wait a minute. I thought that we do pay dues. Where did the money go Aredub?
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SVX FEVER, CATCH IT AT A MEET NEAR YOU !!
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  #33  
Old 05-20-2004, 02:33 PM
manofmayo manofmayo is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by LarryIII



Wait a minute. I thought that we do pay dues. Where did the money go Aredub?
What about donations to the site? Where does that go and how would it 'play' in all of this?
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  #34  
Old 05-20-2004, 03:37 PM
lee lee is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ron Mummert
This reminds me of another web site called www.trump.orgy

You sign up & visit forums called Grovel, Suckup, & Kow-tow. If you fail to check in daily & bestow homage upon The Donald, YOU'RE FIRED!!! & must visit www.jerryspringer.ugh everyday for a month in order to get back in.
See how kind & gentle we are here?

Ron.
I managed to get myself banned with only 8 posts on a philosophy forum - without resorting to name calling, obscenity, etc. Given the nature of that particular forum (name withheld to protect the guilty and/or innocent, although it was referenced once on this site) I was quite proud of myself.
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  #35  
Old 05-20-2004, 10:47 PM
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Chris Chris is offline
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Retort (long)

I guess I am the bad guy. Even though none of you know the whole story. Nice to know we live in a community that accusations from one are considered fact and people pass the conviction so easily. Even I can pass on what I consider the facts, but they still are only as I seem them (a perception) so they can be distorted (as I see Noir’s). To point out a fact on my end, he has not been banned AND I can have another backend admin pull the logs to show that he has never been banned from the SVX World Network Forums. The information that was posted by Noir was either bad communication to him from someone else, or an assumption. The choice to post or not, is totally up to him.

Now the facts as I see them:

Part one:
Noir and Civic Slayer FOUR WEEKS AGO were in the chat channel with others in the room as well. They were exchanging obscenities back and forth. They both seemed to be enjoying themselves, BUT I wanted to keep the chat channel just a clean as we talk in the forums (ie if you cant say it to mom, don’t say it in here). To add more to my point, there was a female in the chat channel and the profanity was quite unnecessary. Now to tell the whole truth, I found out later that the exchange between them was lyrics from some nasty song or something. So, I asked for it to stop or else. Civic Slayer stopped and apologized. Noir just taunted me and said "why." I took this as a (or else what) and I kicked him from the room. Shortly afterwards Civic Slayer was like, "Woa cool. Kick me too," so I did. (Note: Just so you know, when you get kicked from a channel, you don’t get the boot from the server, just the room. You can come right back by typing "/join #svx.") So, Noir was kicked, CS thought it was cool and was kicked too. But only CS came back. Noir never came back. He brewed about it. So in short Noir and CS were being jerks and or playing "unnecessary rough house." I came over to ask them to stop. One did, the other asked why. I showed him the door as an example of "or else." He didn’t like that and choose to leave and not come back. As far as I was concerned, it was over. I was mistaken. Noir continued to brew over this as he took it as an insult. Instead of talking to me about this, he let it eat at him until part two occurred a few nights ago. This second event was as I mentioned almost four weeks from the incident I just wrote about above.

Part two:
I entered the chat channel again a few nights ago. It seemed to be full of activity. When I joined, Noir was also in the channel list. Normally since the first event, he just left every time I came in. I considered this a bit rude or odd, but didn’t let it get to me. Unedited chat channel text will continue here:

Quote:
** Chris (vircuser@178.muh213.sttl.sffca01r18.dsl.att.net) has joined #svx
<keith> traveling
=SVXBot= rooferformerlyknownaspizzaboy was looking for you on #svx 1 hour 38 minutes 1 second ago (18.05. 23:33).
<keith> not much
<keith> anymore
*** Mode change [+o Chris] on #svx by SVXBot
<keith> hi chris
[Chris] hey
[Chris] sur eis quiet
<keith> harry is pming me
[Chris] ahh
[Chris] my bad
<keith> he don't like you much
[Chris] I forgot, he is still mad at me
<keith> why
<keith> what did you do/say
[Chris] When I booted him when you and him were exchanging nastygrams and I asked for it to stop and or clean it up.
[Chris] actually, I said or else
<keith> oh, he is childish
[Chris] And he asked "or else what?"
<keith> lmao
<keith> i remember
[Chris] and I booted him
<Noir> actually it was the question 'why?'
[Chris] It was all in good fun, but he didnt see it that way
<keith> boot him again
<keith> lmao
[Chris] Oh well, my house. He is welcome in it, but if he doesnt want to talk, I wont force it
[Chris] I open my house to everyone.
<Noir> which led to no apparent answer.
[Chris] Well, except Chicane
<keith> so, i'm coming over for brewskies
<keith> lmfao
[Chris] I dont drink
<keith> we can change that
<keith> lol
<Noir> and apparently nastygrams were lyrics to a song from the bloodhound gang when someone started it
<keith> dude, let it go
<keith> i got booted too
<keith> and i came back immediately
<keith> no worries
<Noir> instead of giving a reason to the question 'why' or a reason of that's highly offensive, i just get booted for trying a joke to make people laugh
[Chris] The boot answer was inteded NOT as in insult, but more of a answer
<Noir> so since my sense of humor is not appreciated, then i will take my leave
<Noir> not the way you did it
<Noir> to me it's an insult
[Chris] Hey, it all good. I just want it to remain at or under the PG-13 level
<Noir> like sitting at a bar and i just punched your teeth out cause i thought it was funny
[Chris] Wow, you sure took it the wrong way.
<keith> drop it, let's lower the testosterone
<keith> more estrogen in here
<Noir> or because i didn't like the joke, you made no attempt beforehand to reason with me so i took it at that
<keith> HEY ALY
<Noir> just /boot
<Noir> so to me it's an insult
[Chris] Well, I will appologize for the feeling of the insult. It was not inteded as such. But you also need to chill.
<Noir> here ya go instead of giving me the boot again for stating my opinion, i'll go ahead and leave
*** Noir (somebody@adsl-33-97-189.asm.bellsouth.net) has quit IRC [Quit:]
[Chris] If I was in your house
[Chris] Basterd
<keith> wow
[Chris] One sided
<keith> can't believe he is that butt hurt
[Chris] Slap the leather and leave
[Chris] Fine by me
[Chris] He can go somewhere else
[Chris] That was childish
<keith> must have a lotta baggage
[Chris] Want to play it that way... Fine
[Chris] Want sto be a one sided conversation
[Chris] fine
<keith> its ok, let it go
[Chris] I tried to apologize and YOU were a witness
<keith> i know
<keith> i know
[Chris] True?
<keith> i'm not going to take sides, but you were in the right
<keith> by apologising
[Chris] Iam not asking you to take sides, I just want to know that you saw me apologize
<keith> i know this

As you can read by the above conversation, Noir communicated to be his anger about the incident that occurred four weeks ago. I was humoring his objections to my actions and I tried to interject with some of my feelings. He didn’t appear to want to hear anything for it seemed like a one-way conversation to me. Even after he informed me of how he felt it was an insult, I tried to apologize and explain that my previous action was not intended as an insult. Being that he DID NOT want to accept my apology, he chooses to slap me with the leather one more time and depart.
Now in my book, I am mildly offended at this action, but I cannot force anyone to accept my apology. If he chooses to stay mad at me, fine. I will admit I was quite mad that he only wanted a once sided bi*ch session and would not hear anything from me. In my opinion it’s rather rude or childish. Its like when someone asks for the podium, makes some outrageous accusations, and leaves the building before hearing any chance of a retort or proof. To make matters worse, he chose to AIR dirty laundry out in the public painting me as a bad guy. Again, I find this immature and a rather childish attitude. As an administrator I try to treat all instances fairly. To add to this, every time my moderators or administrator staff needs to step in to something, we do it personally as to not publicly embarrass the person. In Noir’s post, he chooses to share with the world here our problems and attempt to (and possibly successfully) paint me as the heavy-handed administrator and a bud guy. Seeing that I have received such nasty PM’s from people and reading comments of how so many of them have passed judgment on me without knowing the facts, or my side, I was compelled to defend myself here in this public forum.
To answer some other questions, YES. If you piss me off bad enough I will ban you. I didn’t spend three years of time and money on this to become an outlet for your anger or problems. I made this to better the experience of ALL SVX owners. Now, let me add more information. In every instance in the past where it has become necessary to remove a person, I hold a closed forum meeting with all my administrative staff and try to hear all angles. I attempt to be completely fair about decisions here. Some might not agree, but a lot goes on behind closed doors. Also, when judgments are made, we don’t post them in public forums. We deal with the persons involved in a private matter. I was hoping that this was private as well.

After the night of part two, I got together with two of my local back-end administrators and discussed what happened. They agreed that I needed to just blow it off and look at it like a strike one and possibly two. I did exactly that. I blew it off. I WAS going to post this instance in the private area reserved for administrators, seeking judgment against Noir, BUT DID NOT. To be honest, I had to when Noir posted this thread and the administrator’s forum filled up with comments and information requests. So, I had to explain what happened there. Now, since the heat is on in the public forums and the PM’s are quite rude, I had to do it again here.

Again, I am very disappointed that a private spat between myself and Noir was aired publicly and even more saddened that so many people have judged based on the facts posted by one persons. I grew up in a society where guilt needed to be proven by a court session where two parties told their side of the case and a jury of peers decided the outcome. WHY have so many of you passed a hasty judgment on me without knowing the other side?!

With this I am closing. I am going to take an extended leave of absence from this account due to anger and need for peace. I have attempted in the past to do what I felt was right and apologize for the action the lead to the feeling of an insult. Again I offer this apology. This is all I can do. I do suggest that if you choose to remain mad about the incident as well as your right to continue to be angry with me, please don’t turn this into a public spectacle. You can stay here if you wish, or go elsewhere. But don’t turn what I spent a long time and money on against me.
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Last edited by Chris; 05-20-2004 at 10:53 PM.
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  #36  
Old 05-20-2004, 10:50 PM
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Alycone Alycone is offline
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Sigh.
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  #37  
Old 05-20-2004, 11:31 PM
e'X-driver
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dude that does make him look like a lil kid i wod have just let it go

buy the way dude 4 F***ing!!!! WEEKS!!!! let it go man
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  #38  
Old 05-20-2004, 11:35 PM
starsh0t starsh0t is offline
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**** happens..

forgive & forget. we're all friends. =]
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  #39  
Old 05-20-2004, 11:50 PM
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HighwayUFO HighwayUFO is offline
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To speechless to formulate an unopinionated answer.

~~~Sigh~~~
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1992 "Robins egg blue" SVX Originally Claret 147k- CURRENT

1992 Pearly 187K and climbing (11-91) #964 *retired

1992 Pearl SVX 122500 miles #86 FASTAR THAN THE OLD ONE.*SOLD

Everytime I get into my car, it always reminds me that it has POWER
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  #40  
Old 05-21-2004, 12:07 AM
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UberRoo UberRoo is offline
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It takes two to fight.

When it's clear that an agreement cannot be reached, just agree to disagree. Unfortunately for the administrators, it's not that simple. For the rest of us, it is. Our problems should never become their problems.

Remember, it takes two...
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  #41  
Old 05-21-2004, 12:56 AM
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Andy Andy is offline
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It is easy for misunderstandings to happen on the net, and for situations to get out of hand. We don't have the ability to see facial expressions or tones of voice.

We are all big boys (and girls) here. I don't want to lose the input from Harry or Chris, so will one of you please hold out the hand of friendship?

In 6 months time, this will all seem so insignificant.
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  #42  
Old 05-21-2004, 01:05 AM
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HighwayUFO HighwayUFO is offline
After 200, it's all the same.
 
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I just wish this could dissolve quickly and efficiently. I love this site, and am feeling really uneasy about this sort of turmoil. This is making it hard for me to want to continue my involvement here. I hope that a means becomes and end. My activity here will not lessen because of this, just that I will refrain from posting much until heads, attitudes and conflicts cool off. I don't want to be anymore a part of this than I already am, but I was there and feel like I'm part of it because of this. I just hope that once this is all over and done with, everything will be peachy again.

Keith
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1992 "Robins egg blue" SVX Originally Claret 147k- CURRENT

1992 Pearly 187K and climbing (11-91) #964 *retired

1992 Pearl SVX 122500 miles #86 FASTAR THAN THE OLD ONE.*SOLD

Everytime I get into my car, it always reminds me that it has POWER
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  #43  
Old 05-21-2004, 01:12 AM
Crash
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Catch 22, period. Chris, I admire your dedication to this sight that you have made a part of many of our everyday lives. Harry, I think you are a really nice guy with that kind of humor that likes to 'push it'. I am the same way. This can all blow over, and probably will, hopefully. All the rest of us need to lay off both parties and let them work it out. Judgement on either will just further exacerbate an already overblown situation.
A little Ky. trivia. The great Hattfield and McCoy feud lasted almost 150 years and was over a $.50 debt on a fiddle. See how ridiculous we all can be?
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  #44  
Old 05-21-2004, 01:15 AM
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Noir Noir is offline
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Interesting.

Thanks for sharing your side of the story Chris.

I guess it's time to share mine.

For you information, I did not air dirty laundry on the public forums. Please explain which part of the initial post in this thread shows that. All I stated was this and in this order:

1. I was happy to have met some of the fine people of this site (some in person and some online).

2. I thanked you for providing taking the time, effort, and money in creating this site. Because of this I apologized for offending you in anyway and anyone else during my stay here. It's your house and your rules.

3. I was told after I logged from the chat that night from a few members on the board at the time, that you were going to ban me. So I decided if that was the case, to backup the PM conversations and contact information of all the people that I communicate with online. I proceeded to delete my PM's and cleaned out my locker so that if what YOU publically stated was true, you would have less work to do (sorting files, PM's, etc.)

4. I publically announced that I will be banned (as per your comment observed by multiple people) and proceeded to send my contact information to people that may want it and thanked the people that have given me advice on my car in the past. I left my email address associated with my username so that some people who I forgot to contact that may have wanted my information would be able to contact me in the future if needed.


Part 1:
The exchange of obscenities as I recall was the word 'ass' which was one of the words in that song which was mentioned at some point by a female in the chat. During the time of this exchange, other members were also contributing and to my knowledge, no one was offended. If anyone was, I apologize.

When you stated 'clean it up or else', I simply asked 'why' because I did not see where the 'cleaning' need to take place. Obviously my standards and your standards are different because you thought it was bad and I didn't. If you do not explain it, how am I suppose to know? In the past you have private messaged me about other members that were causing a disturbance and asked me to disengage conversation with them which I complied without hesistation. But this time, I got the boot. I came into your house and somewhere along the way I may have done something that you didn't like, I wanted to know what to do or not do. Instead of supplying me with an answer or warning I get shoved out the door and left on the street. What would you do Chris?

Was I happy? No. Do I want to talk about it? No. Why not? Well I tried and you gave me the boot. It pretty much showed me the outcome of asking for a reason.

My solution? Do not share the same room with you in your own house. I decided to avoid confrontation and to keep the flames from spreading, I would leave the room when you entered. Later on I decided that I would not engage in any publically in the room when you entered. Is that bad? Since somehow I upset you in the room with a comment I made or something I said without an explanation, I decided it's safer to not say anything at all in your prescence. I guess that was a bad choice.

Part 2:
The night you came in, I went about my normal routine of which I adopted. Whatever conversation that was publically being discussed at the time got moved to the private room between members. This has been happening for weeks now and I thought it was the accepted norm now.

Me and Civic_Slayer were talking about some car, when you publically asked why the room was so quiet. I was still typing my response to Civic_Slayer about the car when he said:

<keith> harry is pming me

Civic_Slayer added in the following statement apparently in hopes of inciting something because in private, I made no mention of you nor about being pissed:

<keith> he don't like you much

I never said anything that even remotely may have had that connotation in our discussion.

Then you continued on about why I was 'mad' when I wasn't. I was just keeping it 'clean' for you.

I went and corrected your error when you were explaining this:

[Chris] actually, I said or else
<keith> oh, he is childish
[Chris] And he asked "or else what?"

I did not say 'or else what?' I asked you 'why?'

You can read the rest of what took place after that was brought up.

What you failed to include in your chat log was the following which was sent hours later I was informed by some members that I was to be banned per Chris. It was nice of them to send me the log that transpired afterwards.

For the record, I notice that you said it was in all good fun. So was your boot an attempt to Moderate the room or was it 'in good fun' as you stated? I thought you were very serious in the matter...serious enough to boot someone. I've never seen you boot someone 'in good fun'. Heck, I remember you booting everyone off in order to kick someone off when the command to boot someone off failed.

I quit the chat at this time because I felt that this discussion would lead to an exchange of heated words that would just add more friction between the two of us. Your explanation of the boot being the answer to my question showed me your take on my questions.

Also for the record, I did not see this statement:

Chris: Well, I will appologize for the
feeling of the insult. It was not inteded as such. But you also need to
chill.

I typed my option to leave and hit alt-f4 closing the client, my guess, as you finished that statement.

Here is the log in which Chris left out that I received later:

Chris: Well, I will appologize for the
feeling of the insult. It was not inteded as such. But you also need to
chill.
Noir has quit the server saying:
Chris:
If I was in your house
Chris: Basterd
keith: wow
Chris: One sided
keith:
can't believe he is that butt hurt
Chris: Slap the leather and leave
Chris:
Fine by me
Chris: He can go somewhere else
Chris: That was childish
keith:
must have a lotta baggage
Chris: Want to play it that way... Fine
Chris:
Want sto be a one sided conversation
Chris: fine
keith: its ok, let it
go
Chris: I tried to apologize and YOU were a witness
keith: i know
keith: i
know
Chris: True?
keith: i'm not going to take sides, but you were in the
right
keith: by apologising
Chris: Iam not asking you to take sides, I just
want to know that you saw me apologize
keith: i know this
12:25 AM
Chris:
OK
Chris: Now I am finishing it.
keith: you made the effort to bury a stupis
hatchet,
keith: finishing it how
Chris: Punk
keith: don't let it get to you,
it was all in fun and he took it the wrong way
keith: there is nothing you
can do unless he wants to work on a resolve
Chris: I already did it
keith:
pulled his registration
keith: ?
Chris: Placed a ban in the IRC server for
his address
keith: so no more affiliation on the SVX world network
Chris:
and now I will post the text of what happened here in the administrators
forum and vote
Alycone-watchin-tv: hi
Chris: Hey Aly
Chris: Missed the
sxcitement
Alycone-watchin-tv: so I see
Alycone-watchin-tv:
summary?
Alycone-watchin-tv is now known as Alycone
Chris: I tried to
apologize
keith: no more harry
12:30 AM
Chris: He is still butt hurt (after
almost a month)
Chris: he slaped me in the fasce with his glove and
left
Chris: Didnt want to discuss it like a man
Chris: More like a mouse,
onse sided conversation and left
Chris: THIS IS MY HOUSE and people will not
be rude to me in MY HOUSE!
Chris: PUNK!
keith: listen to yourself
Chris
Chris: Like I put forth all this time and money for this PUNK to do
nothing but piss me off
Alycone: hmmmm I see an inevitable problem here
sigh
keith: you are making this into something huge, and it was all
petty
Chris: No, you listen Keith, I have over $10,000 invested into
providing thji service, three years of time maintianing it, and many more
hours fixing it
Chris: Sit in my seat for a moment
Chris: You want to spend
that time and money for someone to come into your project and piss on
you?
Chris: I wont stand for it.
keith: i wouldn't stand for it
either
keith: but look at the positive
keith: look how many people you made
happy wit your creation
Chris: IF I was just an administratrator and all the
other stuff wasnt a factor, I wouldnt be so offended.
Chris: And thats why I
banned him and no one else.
Chris: Well, except chicane
Alycone: yes r of
course
Chris: Well, not its Harry
keith: you have people who, without
knowing you directly like me and a few other people, who devote their time
to YOUR creation. This is a beautiful thing
12:35 AM
keith: you have given
so much and asked so little
keith: YOU AREA TRULY SELFLESS PERSON
keith: and
i thank you for this
Chris: Its all good
keith: All the advice about my
LIFE
keith: my CAR
Chris: I am not downing the whole thing.
Alycone: me too
(on the thanks)
Chris: Just one memeber
keith: you still call him a
member
keith: that says something
Chris: I would feel better calling him a
childish punk
Chris is pissed
keith: i understand this
Chris: I am going out
for a drive and to go let off steam
Chris: As far as I am concered,
NOIR/Harry is banned from IRC
Alycone: good idea, svxs are good for
that
Alycone: hmmm
keith: you go do that, and think about how many people
you have made happy
Chris: and I am going to ask the
moderators/administrators for a non-partisaned opinion about what happened
tonight.
Alycone: I havent had a chance to read it all yet
Chris: I have to
drive a Toyota, my SVX is broke right now.
keith: just be nice on the SVX
when you go for that drive
keith: ok, that is a good thing
Alycone: my svx
broke too
Chris: Sorry to hear that Aly
Alycone: eh it'll heal
Chris: Mine
broke while in the semi-finals on Sunday night.
12:40 AM
keith: what
happened
Chris: Got me up into third place overall in the northwest
Chris:
Not sure
Chris: might be the ignitor
keith: nice
Alycone: good
placing
Chris: Thanks
keith: where did you stick that thread/post
Chris:
what one?
Alycone: moderator section?
Alycone: I assume
Chris: Yes.. I am
going to let other people descide his fate.
Alycone: that sounds
responsible
Chris: I am too mad to make a "fair" choice.
Alycone: yeah
understandable
keith: and the moderator section is where
keith: im an
idiot
Chris: In my book, he can go to NASIOC or what ever it is.
Chris: Only
admins and moderators have access to it.
keith: oh i see
Chris: Its so we
dont share our dirty laundry like I shouldnt be doing now.
Alycone: except
we were here for the dirtying
keith: it isn't dirty laundry
Chris: but he
did it out in the open, so oh well.
keith: i was a part of it as well
Chris:
not today
Chris: I havent even finished writting the post I am soo/too
mad
Chris: I gotta run
Chris: for real
keith: aal
Chris: Need to vent
Chris:
Keith, have a good night
keith: i will try
Chris: Aly, Good luck getting
your car fixed
Alycone: thanks
Chris: If you need anything I can help with,
let me know.
Alycone: atf in the dif sigh
Chris: Take out a loan and do the
5 speed
Alycone: not yet
12:45 AM
Chris: how about if I jack Noirs tranny?

Chris: just kidding
Chris: OK
Chris: gnight for real.

I did not want to post this publically, but you left me no options. You were the initial one that started 'airing laundry' publically. You were the one that started calling me names afterwards when I decided to keep the flames down. Don't you agree that taking action against someone asking a question a little unfair? Do instructors beat their students when they inquire about something?

The rest of the log I just posted did indeed show that you attempted to ban me. That log also shows your professionalism in handling the this personal problem and your quest to approach the Moderators for justification.

I got that log after I went ahead and cleaned up my PM box and deleted everything in my locker when other members informed me that I was on the 'ban list'.

Now the members know the rest.

Last edited by Noir; 05-21-2004 at 01:24 AM.
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  #45  
Old 05-21-2004, 01:15 AM
HighwayUFO's Avatar
HighwayUFO HighwayUFO is offline
After 200, it's all the same.
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Posts: 1,009
I thought the Hatfield/McCoy feud was over the death of a McCoy Pig that was shot by a Hatfield.

Keith

Thank god for the History Channel, because only they could clear up the Hatfield/McCoy feud.
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The member formerly known as Civic_Slayer
1992 "Robins egg blue" SVX Originally Claret 147k- CURRENT

1992 Pearly 187K and climbing (11-91) #964 *retired

1992 Pearl SVX 122500 miles #86 FASTAR THAN THE OLD ONE.*SOLD

Everytime I get into my car, it always reminds me that it has POWER
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