OT - another WOOHOO!

[Trevor]

You guys are old hat !

Over fifty years ago I designed a racing bike to fit my size and style of riding and had it custom built by a local bicycle builder. Molly tubing, cut away custom lugs and a work of art. It was the done thing back then if you were a serious racing cyclist.

My son has a state of the art Alloy framed fully sprung mountain bike with mega speed gears, which he uses regularly for commuting in preference to his Subaru. We have had many discussions on frame costruction and design. There have been no changes in the basics but there have been vast improvements in respect everything attached to the basic frame.

Now if auto engineers could get down to basics and equal the design excellence of the modern bicycle, we could have truly great cars. A cyclist has to pay for poor design with hard labour and is not inclined to accept rubbish. Not so the poofter in the driving seat who accepts what the PR brigade sell him.

[seasvx]

Originally posted by Trevor
...cut away custom lugs and a work of art.

...cast lugs are art in and of themselves. A marriage of function, beauty and the science of the foundry...

[Trevor]

Great that you know what I am talking about in these modern times which illustrates how little true basics in design change. In my day all the builders had their own particular designs and styles in the shaping of lugs when they cut them to a minimum to save weight and the results were true scuplture and an art form.

[Ron Mummert]

Originally posted by seasvx
...cast lugs are art in and of themselves. A marriage of function, beauty and the science of the foundry...

Uhh..., guys. What's a cast lug, & where can I go to see one? Sorry - I gave up two wheeled transportation when I sold my '53 Raleigh 3-speed back in '60. I DID ride it through the woods, before mountain bikes were invented though!

Thanks, Ron.

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by Ron Mummert


Uhh..., guys. What's a cast lug, & where can I go to see one? Sorry - I gave up two wheeled transportation when I sold my '53 Raleigh 3-speed back in '60. I DID ride it through the woods, before mountain bikes were invented though!

Thanks, Ron.

Okay, now I can pitch in. I still have my Raleigh Grand Prix, bought in 1974. I used to be into long distance road trips. It was a great ride for its time. I haven't ridden in years.

[Trevor]

Ron, in bicycle speak lugs are cast or forged parts used to join the frame tubes in a bicycle frame. The tubes are brazed into the lug rather than welded which is an advantage as the steel tubing is not subject to excessive heat which can effect the structure of the steel.

About 50 yrs ago frames with butt welded joints became available and I recall buying one off a guy who brought it out from the UK and it was the very latest thing in bikes. As I understand it 50 yrs on and the argument still rages re the two methods. Steel, verses alloy frames, is another topic. Cq$h & Co. where are you ?

[Ron Mummert]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Trevor
[B]Ron, in bicycle speak lugs are cast or forged parts used to join the frame tubes in a bicycle frame. The tubes are brazed into the lug rather than welded which is an advantage as the steel tubing is not subject to excessive heat which can effect the structure of the steel


Thanks, Trevor. Now I can go down to the community bike path, sit on a park bench, & when a cutie comes pedaling by, I can say, "Hey, nice lugs"! without getting my face slapped.

Ron.

[wasions]

Originally posted by Trevor

There have been no changes in the basics but there have been vast improvements in respect everything attached to the basic frame.

Now if auto engineers could get down to basics and equal the design excellence of the modern bicycle, we could have truly great cars. A cyclist has to pay for poor design with hard labour and is not inclined to accept rubbish. Not so the poofter in the driving seat who accepts what the PR brigade sell him.

Hmmm. Kind of why I'm riding a recumbent (Well, not in the woods).

Nick, that's a great looking frame. The dropouts are outstanding! And that stay! Yeow! What's the length?

I guess I'm cheap. My Raleigh MTB is 15 years old. My K2's are 13. Even the recumbent is from the early 90's. My trials bike is the newbie, at 3.

[Mr. Pockets]

Originally posted by wasions


Hmmm. Kind of why I'm riding a recumbent (Well, not in the woods).

Nick, that's a great looking frame. The dropouts are outstanding! And that stay! Yeow! What's the length?

Length of what? The chainstays? I have no idea. If you mean the frame size, it's 21" from center to top.

It just got here not fifteen minutes ago. Gorgeous, simply gorgeous. I've never been a gram-counter, but since it's totally stripped of components right now I think I'll take off the bubble wrap and weigh it on the mail scale later. :P

From Trevor: Steel, verses alloy frames, is another topic. Cq$h & Co. where are you ?

I have two aluminum (wait, now three) bikes, one road and one mountain, and one steel road bike. I've ridden aluminum, different steels and carbon. My favorite is aluminum. You can take a real pounding, but I love the rigidity. I can see the steel 'beater' road bike (an '80s Miyata with pretty lugs) actually flex when I stand on the pedals uphill. At least I could - I'm not as strong as I was a few years ago. :P

Titanium has become more and more popular, but I've never ridden one. They continue to be outrageously expensive. They also flex more than aluminum, so I don't know that I'd really love it.

I remember a Japanese company making a frame out of paper and epoxy several years ago...

[Trevor]

Frame stiffness should not be sacrificed for weight in my opinion. Every flex of the frame means lost horsepower so that even in the bicycle world power to weight ratio comes into the equation. The technical side of bikes is more involved and interesting than those outside cycling realise.

[Mr. Pockets]

Originally posted by Trevor
Frame stiffness should not be sacrificed for weight in my opinion. Every flex of the frame means lost horsepower so that even in the bicycle world power to weight ratio comes into the equation. The technical side of bikes is more involved and interesting than those outside cycling realise.

Besides power-to-weight, another important issue is usable horsepower. If you can't put the power to the ground, then all that rigidity is for nothing. Merlin makes a Ti frame that has a short-travel shock built into the seat stays. There are no links to maintain - the chainstays just flex when the shock compresses.

Does that keep the rear wheel in better contact with the trail? Does that contact make up for the power lost to the frame flexing? I have no idea. I also don't know how stiff that frame can be laterally.