OT - Thank you, Marcus Gronholm

[SVXphile]

<Not so sure about Christian Fittipaldi but I remember seeing that Colin McCray (not sure on the spelling) entered the equiviliant of Euro NASCAR on an off week and placed (I think he won but know that he at least place) having never driven in that type of race before. Virtually every non-rally racer who enters usually ends up out by the end of day one. Granted Colin is an exceptional driver who takes A LOT of chances but to enter a race with a car that's probably not really well prepared and tested and to do that well with no experience in that type of race shows me that these guys are the bomb>
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What about Tomi?

It isn't too surprising about Colin doing well in euronascar. I think a truly talented driver can adapt to several types of racing. Mario won in midgets, sprints, Indy roadsters, sports cars, and F1.
If you know how to run a car at the limit....with its tail hanging out....you have learned to master car control. Sprint car drivers (J.Gordon/Stewart) do well in NASCAR due to such experience, in my opinion. Robby Gordon went over to the Canary Islands before the current Nascar season and participated in the Race of Champions over there, mixing it up with the cream of the WRC crowd, and had one of the quickest times until he misjudged a turn and bent the car. His experience? IRL, Nascar, and....the BAJA! How would our offroaders do with rally cars? Just adjust to a LOWER view I guess! "You mean we don't have to dodge CACTUS over here?"

<Who would you rather co-ride with through 50 miles of real curvy snowy backroads when your late for work? Petter Solberg or Jeff Gordon?>

Answer: Petter Solberg

Who would you rather co-ride with for 500 miles at Darlington?
Answer: Jeff Gordon

Who would you rather co-ride with in a Honda S2000 with the top down on the Skyline Drive or Blue Ridge Parkway?

Answer: Any of the ladies from the Victoria's Secret show!

S L A P

....I was just kidding dear...honest!!!! Don

[SVXphile]

<Ooooh! Then I guess I'm pullin' for a Sonata sweep!
What's a bottle?>

Accent Ron....ACCENT. Hyundai races Accents in WRC.

If they were sponsored by Turning Leaf, you would have known that.... Don

[SVXphile]

<Gimme a good ol' "figger 8" race any day of the week. Now THAT'S entertainment! >

OHMYGOSH Randy....I had completely forgotten about those.
Jean and I attended one of those.....things....at a county fair in....wait for it....not Alabama....not Iowa....NEW YORK!
My heavens, I saw more Red Man being chewed up there than anywhere back home in Tennessee...

....so much for stereotypes. Don

[Beav]

I don't how many tracks run these but when I was still living in Colorado they used to run 'trains'. The front car was large-engined, a small car in the middle and a car with very good brakes in the rear. They were connected, end-to-end by chains threaded through pipes. The first car had no brakes and the rear car had no engine. Just to make it interesting, no communication between the driver and the brake man was allowed (center car was vacant.) Oh, yeah, just one more little item - it was run in figure eight fashion. Y'all have never seen anything as fun until you've seen the trains run!

[SVXphile]

<Y'all have never seen anything as fun until you've seen the trains run!>

Beav....add Colorado to my list of stereotypes that have been shot to %&#@.... My image of Aspen will never be the same.... Don

[Ron Mummert]

Originally posted by Beav
I don't how many tracks run these but when I was still living in Colorado they used to run 'trains'. The front car was large-engined, a small car in the middle and a car with very good brakes in the rear. They were connected, end-to-end by chains threaded through pipes. The first car had no brakes and the rear car had no engine. Just to make it interesting, no communication between the driver and the brake man was allowed (center car was vacant.) Oh, yeah, just one more little item - it was run in figure eight fashion. Y'all have never seen anything as fun until you've seen the trains run!

Good Gawd Almighty, I'd pay actual money to see this!! Gotta make demolition derby look like Grand Prix Monaco.

Drool - Ron.

[Beav]

Yeah, it's a riot! The driver screaming "STOP!!! STOP!!!", not knowing that he's been dragging the caboose upside down for the past fourteen laps, and the brake man yelling "GO, DANG IT, GO!!!!" as he's being dragged through the middle of the eight, upside down, as another train, with its own problems, is heading straight for him...

Aspen is a town from another planet that just slammed into the western slope. One of the locals there bought the road course some years back and turned it into a 'members only' track. I guess it's nice if you can afford it... To most native and semi-native Coloradoans, Aspen only exists when you happen to drive through. Most people I know would never go there on purpose.

[Mr. Pockets]

Originally posted by SVXphile
I think it has been shown that number 3 did not have his seatbelts installed correctly. The shame is that Bill Simpson got a LOT of bad press about it....something he did not deserve. Simpson's equipment has saved thousands of lives in racing all over the world. The one positive outcome seems to be that the Hans device is becoming standard equipment....even in Formula One. Speaking of F1, if the Ferraris keep getting faster....and the Arrows team can keep from going bankrupt...Shuey will end up passing as many cars in a race as Stewart does at Richmond!
Don

I was not aware of that finding. I don't watch any of the three hundred NASCAR shows a week on Speed, so I hadn't heard that the installation of his seatbelts were at fault.

If you're implying that F1 has discovered the HANS device because of NASCAR...well, I don't buy it. I remember drivers testing early versions of the HANS setup back in '99.

As for Schumacher lapping the field, I think everybody's well aware that they certainly could have done that. That's what drives me nuts about these wackos saying that Ferrari is intentionally making fools of everyone with their antics. If they were that arrogant, they would have lapped every car on the grid at more than half of this year's races.

And the Ferraris will be faster next year. Unless Williams does something pretty extraordinary, next year's Ferrari will pants the competition again. The F2002 was at least a year ahead of everybody else, and I think the best that Williams can hope to do is eat away at that advantage and win a few more races.

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by Ron Mummert




Good Gawd Almighty, I'd pay actual money to see this!! Gotta make demolition derby look like Grand Prix Monaco.

Drool - Ron.

HELL YEAH!! I'd have to put that right up there with the Goat Ropin' Contest.

[Mr. Pockets]

Originally posted by Ron Mummert




Good Gawd Almighty, I'd pay actual money to see this!! Gotta make demolition derby look like Grand Prix Monaco.

Drool - Ron.

The Sheboygan County Fair used to run combine harvester demolition derbies.

That's another sight to behold.

[SVXphile]

Death of a famous driver, be they Nascar or F1, makes everyone rethink safety. Cart, IRL, and F1 can all learn from each other. Schumacher broke his leg a few years back when he went through a tire barrier. If soft walls work at Indy, (and the jury is still out) then perhaps they would work at Silverstone. Hans devices have proven themselves in several types of open wheel racing, as well as Nascar. I hope no racing series would discount a safety breakthrough simply because someone else thought of it, or used it, first.

The uproar about Ferrari seems to be twofold. (1) staged checkered flags.....similar to famous LeMan "photo" ops with several of a manufacturers cars crossing the finish line together, and (2) the total dominance of the red cars. I tend to agree with number 1, but not number 2. Some in F1 have short memories. They need to remember the total dominance of Senna and Prost in the McLaren-Hondas a few years back. Those who dominate will not do so for long. The roles will reverse in time. In the mean time, I usually ask Jean to wake me up when someone actually makes a racing pass on someone. (backmarkers don't count)

There are rumors raging that Dan Gurney is working on a totally American F1 effort. I can hardly wait! Don

[SVXphile]

I had to revive this thread, when I discovered this on the web today.....

First, Gronholm shows Jeff how NOT to do it....

http://www.speedtv.com/auto/?lvl=3a&cat=21&id=4331

then Jeff starts to get the hang of it!

http://www.speedtv.com/auto/?lvl=3a&cat=21&id=4334

Remember what I said about ROBBIE Gordon's performance over their last year? Don't get me wrong....neither Gordon is a rally driver...but this should help bring an end to the debate about some racers being one-dimensional....especially those with dirt track/sprint car experience. Foyt and Andretti were two of those, and my guess is that Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart are also. The list of drivers in this competition was VERY strong. If I can find a list, I will post it later. Don

By the way, Gronholm redeemed himself by coming back to win the Race of Champions. What a driver....and those intense eyes!

[Mr. Pockets]

I heard about the Gronholm / Gordon wreck yesterday. My friend told me that Gronholm was quoted after the accident as saying that Jeff Gordon was 'laughing as they were rolling.'

I haven't gone back through this thread to check, but if I said that NASCAR drivers weren't talented, I apologize. I'm not going to declare how brilliant they are behind the wheel, either. I've only had enough of a taste of NASCAR to say that I really don't like it. I have never watched a NASCAR race from start to finish, so the talent of the drivers is not something I can comment on.

My conclusions about NASKER are from an outsider's perspective. I see the clips of races and interviews during commercials for NASCAR-related shows, and quickly come to the conclusion that it's all about the crashes. Maybe that's more indicative of the marketing and hype than of the actual event.

Not that I'll ever know for sure because you won't catch me watching a race!

[SVXphile]

<I haven't gone back through this thread to check, but if I said that NASCAR drivers weren't talented drivers, I apologize. I'm not going to expound on how brilliant they are behind the wheel, either>

I don't think you did Pockets, and certainly not all of them are. But I think a handful at the top of the various forms (CART-IRL-Nascar etc.) are talented enough to do well in almost anything with wheels. Carting (not CART) has seemed to be a good indicator of ability in the past. I would just add that in my opinion the skills learned in American dirt track/off road racing, and the competition itself, brings to the surface the kind of driver that is good in CAR CONTROL, and I think they make the best drivers. Niki Lauda (one of my favorites) once was asked what made him such a good driver. He replied that he had a sensitive butt; he could sense the movement of the car very well, and predict its actions.
The great Juan Fangio, if memory serves me, used to race big American cars on the dirt roads of Argentina long before his raced for Mercedes in Europe. I think it comes down to this, whatever the type of racing: A great driver is a great driver.

<<Supported by Michelin since the inaugural event in Paris in 1988, The Race of Champions was conceived, and remained for the first eleven years, a rally-only event that invited drivers to race head-to-head, side-by-side in exactly the same cars and on a figure-eight parallel-track. The premise was simple: using identical equipment and circuit, drivers could prove themselves based on their talent alone. In 1999, event promoters, seeing the potential for a World Cup of racing, introduced The ROC Nations Cup as a means of expanding that unique concept to other disciplines of motorsport and to allow racers to compete for their flags. In this event, three-man national teams--each comprising the country's best rally (or off-road), motorcycle and circuit racers--face off against one another in a series of 1-lap heats, quarter-finals and semi-finals leading up to the climactic final (this year, Saturday November 30th). The ROC Nations Cup is now a highlight of The Michelin Race of Champions weekend (November 29th -- December 1st), which is hosted by the Circuito Ciudad Deportiva rally circuit in Gran Canaria and is largely responsible for the recent explosive growth in media coverage of this weekend of racing: the event is now televised in more than 187 countries.

The nine countries in this year's ROC Nations Cup will be divided into three groups: each country will compete against all others in its group, with rally, circuit and motorcycle racers competing against their counterparts.


2002 Michelin Race of Champions -- Nations Cup Teams:

Finland:
Kari Tiainen - Seven-time World Enduro Champion
JJ Lehto - 1995 Le Mans winner
Marcus Gronholm - 2000 & 2002 World Rally Champion

UK:
James Haydon - Superbike star
James Thompson -- British Touring Car Champion
Robbie Head - British rally star & Channel 4 expert commentator

Sweden:
Thomas Radstrom - WRC driver
Kenny Brack - 1998 IRL Champion & 1999 Indy 500 Champion
Tony Rickardsson - 2002 Speedway World Champion

Italy:
Marco Melandri - 2002 250cc MotoGP World Champion
Fabrizio Giovanardi - 2000, 2001 & 2002 European Touring Car Champion
Renato Travaglia - 2002 European Rally Champion

France:
Mickael Maschio - 2002 125cc Motocross World Champion
S0x00e9bastien Bourdais - 2002 Formula 3000 World Champion
S0x00e9bastien Loeb - 2001 World Junior Rally Champion Winner of the 2002 Deutschland Rally (WRC)

Germany:
Pit Beirer - 250 cc Motocross World Championship rider
Nick Heidfeld - Sauber Formula 1 driver
Walter Rorhl - 1980 & 1982 World Rally Champion

U.S.A.:
Colin Edwards - 2000 & 2002 World Superbike Champion
Jeff Gordon - 1995, 1997, 1999 & 2001 Nascar Winston Cup Champion
Jimmie Johnson - Best Rookie in NASCAR Winston Cup history, 2002 (not sure about this; Ryan Newman won the top Rookie honors, although Jimmie was very close....Don)

Brazil:
Alex Barros - MotoGP star
Antonio Pizzonia -- Jaguar Formula 1 driver
Cristiano Da Matta - 2002 CART FedEx Series Champion

Spain:
Carlos Checa - MotoGP star
Fernando Alonso - Renault F1 driver
Jesus Puras - 2002 Spanish Rally Champion

New for the 2002 event weekend, Friday's ROC America will feature NASCAR's Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson, CART ace and 1999 Indy 500 winner Kenny Brack and 2002 CART champion Cristiano da Matta in a classic clash of the titans. Using the ROC Cars--specially-designed for the event--the best of American motorsport will fight it out in what will certainly be a fantasy match-up for many fans, since never before have the best of America's open-wheel and NASCAR gone head-to-head in equal machines.

"We're very excited about this new event," said event co-founder, Fredrik Johnson. "There is so much animosity between open- and closed-wheel racing in the U.S., so it will be interesting to see what happens when the best of these elite leagues go against one another on neutral ground."

Just to say it...


In 1987 Peugeot took one of their 205t16 Group B rally cars to the Spa circuit in Belgium for some road tire and high speed testing.

The driver (and world champion) Ari Vatanen set a time on course in the rally car that would have put him FOURTH on the POLE for the F1 Grand Prix that year.

I miss Group B...