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  #16  
Old 03-29-2010, 10:02 AM
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Re: Thinking the 3.3 has got to go...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcarrb View Post
Why not just buy a faster car rather than trying to make an SVX into something it isn't (and ruining it in the process)?

dcb
+1

It ain't never going to be the same as the other cars mentioned in the original post. (gotta love those double negs)

Lee
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  #17  
Old 03-29-2010, 10:25 AM
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Re: Thinking the 3.3 has got to go...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonestock View Post
No twin turbos... keep it simple. Built STi engine? Why? Drop in a stock one. Do you think my 400+ STi was built? Can you imagine the cost of a fully built 3.3? If you went that route, you'd still be N/A, no where near 300hp and still have to do something about the EM & tranny. Meh, turbos are fairly cheap. and the biggest expense out of the whole idea is the 6MT... they can (note I said can) be pretty expensive.

As for engines... (just for reference)
http://www.gruppe-s.com/Subaru/UsedEngines.htm
Not trying to knock you, I think it would be great to have a swap like this. I'm just stuck on the eg33. To each their own, yes?
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  #18  
Old 03-29-2010, 11:18 AM
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Re: Thinking the 3.3 has got to go...

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Originally Posted by Bonestock View Post
Yep those are the typical responses I thought I would get. Some of you just dont get it. Its JUST a car. Nothing more. I tend to think that any car as a blank piece of paper waiting for its owner to create.

For the life of me I cant understand why ANYONE could think these cars couldn't use a dose of performance and ....here goes.... parts availability.

Dont feel bad diehards, even if I had a Veyron I'd drive the freggen wheels off it. And crank up the boost!
The factor your leaving out of the equation is the BONDING that is created between a person and a car, pet, girlfriend, etc. that become very strong.

You can break up with another person or have your pet cat pass away, or have your favorite car get totaled and you can be devastated by it.

Having someone else say it was JUST a cat, car, or friend doesn't mean they get it. - Get It?
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  #19  
Old 03-29-2010, 11:28 AM
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Re: Thinking the 3.3 has got to go...

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Originally Posted by ZMan View Post
The factor your leaving out of the equation is the BONDING that is created between a person and a car, pet, girlfriend, etc. that become very strong.

You can break up with another person or have your pet cat pass away, or have your favorite car get totaled and you can be devastated by it.

Having someone else say it was JUST a cat, car, or friend doesn't mean they get it. - Get It?
Is more like if you have a pet cat and some other ppl has CLONES of your cat, then if someone puts them to sleep, you will feel devastated.
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  #20  
Old 03-29-2010, 12:01 PM
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Re: Thinking the 3.3 has got to go...

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Originally Posted by Bonestock View Post
I tend to think that any car as a blank piece of paper waiting for its owner to create.
A Camaro or Civic is a blank piece of paper.

You're right: It's just a car. I'm simply trying to understand what's up with people who buy one and immediately set about to "improve" it, particularly when the item in question is already somewhat rare and unusual and costly to maintain in top form.

dcb
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  #21  
Old 03-29-2010, 12:16 PM
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Re: Thinking the 3.3 has got to go...

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Originally Posted by dcarrb View Post
A Camaro or Civic is a blank piece of paper.

You're right: It's just a car. I'm simply trying to understand what's up with people who buy one and immediately set about to "improve" it, particularly when the item in question is already somewhat rare and unusual and costly to maintain in top form.

dcb
And why wouldnt I want to improve it? You cant possibly be serious? Do you have ANY mods? I mean ANY? Sorry I for one am not ever going to be satisfied with and mass production car as is. Thats just not how it works for me. If you are happy with a car that was built for the general population by a group of people that have no idea what YOU want... good for you. I however would rather personalize it to my personal taste. Its no different than the home improvements I have made to my house.

And for those with the terrible analogy of likening a sentient living being to a bunch of plastic and metal... really? That's just silly.

Personally I find it would be far cheaper to run and maintain a SVX with a WRX or STi swap since its more fuel efficient, cleaner and more factory & aftermarket support. Not to mention more powerful and god knows it will be much more fun to drive.

YMMV
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  #22  
Old 03-29-2010, 12:28 PM
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Re: Thinking the 3.3 has got to go...

My engine with 8.5:1 CP pistons, Eagle roads, ARP head studs, full engine balance, machine work and valve job, Cometic head gaskets, race bearings, new water pump, new oil pump, all new gaskets, all new hoses, and several other misc parts has so far run me a whooping 3300 bucks. So far, still less than I paid for my RB25DET front clip.

If you do the swap, please PM me when you take it to the track. I'd love to see which one goes faster for cheaper.
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  #23  
Old 03-29-2010, 01:01 PM
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Re: Thinking the 3.3 has got to go...

Hey you aren't that far away. I have been chomping at the bit to get up to the new road course in AL. So what kind of power has your 3,300 engine have now? With 8.5cr I assume you are planning forced induction, yeah?
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  #24  
Old 03-29-2010, 01:44 PM
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Re: Thinking the 3.3 has got to go...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonestock View Post
And why wouldnt I want to improve it? You cant possibly be serious? Do you have ANY mods? I mean ANY? Sorry I for one am not ever going to be satisfied with and mass production car as is. Thats just not how it works for me. If you are happy with a car that was built for the general population by a group of people that have no idea what YOU want... good for you. I however would rather personalize it to my personal taste. Its no different than the home improvements I have made to my house.

And for those with the terrible analogy of likening a sentient living being to a bunch of plastic and metal... really? That's just silly.

Personally I find it would be far cheaper to run and maintain a SVX with a WRX or STi swap since its more fuel efficient, cleaner and more factory & aftermarket support. Not to mention more powerful and god knows it will be much more fun to drive.

YMMV
For me, I've owned SVX's, WRX's, and STi's for the past 11 years. I just got rid of my 2006 STi because I was only taking it to the autocross every once in a while. A car like the Sti is a waste sitting in a garage and used for getting to work and back. An SVX was much more aligned to my driving today than the STi was. I find the SVX to be completely satisfying... is sure drives differently and in some cases superbly better than an STi does that I wouldn't screw with the SVX at all. I can't even believe I'm comparing these two cars. For me... why mod it? If I want a fast car I'll jump in and mod an STi.

From what you said above is seems that you are not happy with any car that is "made for the unwashed masses," which the SVX clearly is not. This car is so far out in left field as far as far as the "general population" goes that it sits all alone and pretty much forgotten.

These cars are uber rare and the usual result when people try something like what you want to do is a rusting hulk sitting in a driveway 8 months later. In fact there are really only a handful of good examples or truly dedicated modded SVX's that actually see the light of day. And they are almost all creations done by the talent found here on this board.

I'm with you about a car being plastic and metal... it is just that. But can you say the same thing while standing in front of a 250 GTO or a Shelby 289 Cobra? Yes, but don't forget all that is behind those cars. There are designers, owners, technicians, etc. And that is where the passion lies... I appreciate the dedication that went into designing the SVX. You can't say that about any car.

No matter what car you want to have fun with it should be done with thoughtful and dedicated follow through. The SVX is closer akin to Citroen, Porsche, and Lancia. Not WRX's and Honda Civics. Don't jump in cannon ball style. You would get the same response on a Porsche or Citroen forum as well.

Last edited by dbarnblatt; 03-29-2010 at 01:48 PM.
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  #25  
Old 03-29-2010, 02:17 PM
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Re: Thinking the 3.3 has got to go...

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Originally Posted by Bonestock View Post
Do you have ANY mods? I mean ANY?
Do trinkets hanging from the rearview mirror count as mods?

The teal SVX has an auxiliary transmission cooler, the silver has nothing. I have no plans to do anything but maintain them and wring as much utility out of 'em as possible.

From 1978 through the early 90s I drove a '68 Mustang hardtop to which I added a factory-original console, steel Ford "GT" wheels (which had been chromed), an AM/FM/cassette stereo, and an aftermarket dual exhaust; otherwise it was plain old factory. I loved it. That's my preference. May not have been the fastest thing in the valley, but who cares?

dcb
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  #26  
Old 03-29-2010, 02:23 PM
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Re: Thinking the 3.3 has got to go...

ECUTune made a nice 150 shot of nitrous w/ upgraded injectors, MAF, and software.

I say go for it on the STI swap. It would be cool for someone to finally do it.
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  #27  
Old 03-29-2010, 02:29 PM
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Re: Thinking the 3.3 has got to go...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonestock View Post
I think I am going to swap in a EJ258 w/ 6MT really soon.

From what I read on here you guys really dont like engine swaps.... I guess I'll be hated on here as well.
I doubt it will be as easy as the swap was in my old WRX. I put a JDM STi EJ208 w/ ver7 JDM STi 6MT and it couldn't have been easier... 8 wires (for the AVCS) and I had to re-clock the heater hoses... oh the horror! LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonestock View Post
No twin turbos... keep it simple. Built STi engine? Why? Drop in a stock one.

As for engines... (just for reference)
http://www.gruppe-s.com/Subaru/UsedEngines.htm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonestock View Post
And why wouldnt I want to improve it?

Personally I find it would be far cheaper to run and maintain a SVX with a WRX or STi swap since its more fuel efficient, cleaner and more factory & aftermarket support. Not to mention more powerful and god knows it will be much more fun to drive.

YMMV
I'm with you on this 100% Steven.

As an avid SVX fan if I had only one car I would keep it totally stock because of all the reasons guys are firing your way. In fact I do have one SVX with 40K miles and I'm keeping it showroom and totally stock.

However I have a number of cars and one of them is supercharged, the 4WS one actually. Now 4WS SVXes are rare as rocking horse droppings and no doubt people who don't think the SVX should be altered will regard this as sacrilege too, but I like to let a design reach its true potential.

What's an EJ258? Is that the 2.5 turbo unit you guys get in the States?

Regards the EJ257 unit listed on your link, the only 2.5 turbo the JDM guys got was the Forester Sti unit. These are pretty rare so it's a surprise that such engines are available.

While I like the six cylinder EG33 I think the SVX cries out for the 2.5 turbo. With the right exhaust and boost 330 to 350 hp is easily achievable and reliable and you will have a smoking hot coupe on your hands. Go for it and ignore the nay sayers.

Joe
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  #28  
Old 03-29-2010, 02:35 PM
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Re: Thinking the 3.3 has got to go...

This guy ain't a RiceCop dreamer on a high school budget dipping his hand into the toolbox for the first time (the impression that I get). From the get-go, this thread is a search for knowledge, not permission.

"Unwashed masses"? The implication is more like "indifferent consumers". The Camry isn't a bestseller because it is considered to be a perfect car by everyone who buys one. It's because it's what its buyers consider to be closest to their wants and needs. Some people are indifferent enough that they'll sway marque to marque by price tag. Some people don't even know what they drive (a gal my wife works with took a week to sort out that she has a Honda, not a Hyundai). How close is your "close enough"?

Don't tell anyone, but the SVX, too, is not a perfect car.


As for the SVX, if they can't be parted and they can't be modified, someone needs to open a museum, snatch them all up, and restore them to showroom new before all hell breaks loose.
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  #29  
Old 03-29-2010, 02:49 PM
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Re: Thinking the 3.3 has got to go...

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Originally Posted by Bonestock View Post
No twin turbos... keep it simple. Built STi engine? Why? Drop in a stock one. Do you think my 400+ STi was built? Can you imagine the cost of a fully built 3.3? If you went that route, you'd still be N/A, no where near 300hp and still have to do something about the EM & tranny. Meh, turbos are fairly cheap. and the biggest expense out of the whole idea is the 6MT... they can (note I said can) be pretty expensive.

As for engines... (just for reference)
http://www.gruppe-s.com/Subaru/UsedEngines.htm
Don't forget the fact that the SVX engine bay is completely different from a WRX and that you will still be designing the turbo piping from scratch.

So turboing an EG33 or an EJ motor in an SVX engine bay will be the same. (Minus obviously the headers and TB design).

Building an EG block isn't much more expensive than an EJ (as long as you stay away from a lot of head work).

Pistons can now be had for a decent price, rods are out of an STi, and cams I believe are somewhere in the $400 range ($800 for a full set, I was pretty far off here)?

The price you would pay to semi-build an EG33 would probably not be much more than it would cost you to have someone work out the wiring to have an OBDII EJ motor put into an OBDI vehicle.

I'm not trying to stop you from doing this, just letting you know the main reason why this swap hasn't been done before.

There are plenty of people on here who will give you crap about this, but there are also some of us who (while being stubborn enough to want to mod an SVX) realize that a motor swap isn't exactly the best/cheapest decision.


To weigh the options a little better, I present you with this:

A Turbo SVX w/EG33 and 5-6mt:
  • 5-6mt swap
  • Built EG33 that will be $$$
  • Custom turbo system

A Turbo SVX w/EJ## and 5-6mt:
  • 5-6mt swap
  • Motor swap w/wiring that will be hell and $$$
  • Custom turbo system

Keep in mind that is a very basic list on both sides.





Dustin
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Last edited by odepaj; 03-30-2010 at 02:35 AM.
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  #30  
Old 03-29-2010, 02:57 PM
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Re: Thinking the 3.3 has got to go...

One advantage to a turbo EJ over a turbo EG is the extra room in the nose for am intercooler without ditching the AC condensor.

And I pray that you're intending on doing a front or side mount, not a top mount. I don't think hoodscoops suite the SVX at all.

You might be able to get away with a vented V-mount though, and there'd be tons of room for it.
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