The Subaru SVX World Network   SVX Network Forums
Live Chat!
SVX or Subaru Links
Old Lockers
Photo Post
How-To Documents
Message Archive
SVX Shop Search
IRC users:

Go Back   The Subaru SVX World Network > SVX Main Forums > General SVX Babble

View Poll Results: Is the SVX an Italian design
Yes. The Italians designed 100% of it. 4 0.00%
Yes. The Italians designed 090% of it. 1 0.00%
Yes. The Italians designed 080% of it. 0 0%
Yes. The Italians designed 070% of it. 0 0%
Yes. The Italians designed 060% of it. 0 0%
Yes. The Italians designed 050% of it. 1 0.00%
No. The Italians designed only 040% of it. 1 0.00%
No. The Italians designed only 030% of it. 2 0.00%
No. The Italians designed only 020% of it. 1 0.00%
No. The Italians designed only 000% of it. 0 0%
I dont care, these polls are crap 8,654,225 77.30%
I dont care, these polls are crap 2,541,548 22.70%
Voters: 11195783. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 10-13-2008, 08:23 PM
TomsSVX's Avatar
TomsSVX TomsSVX is offline
Maniac modifier
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Branchburg, New Jersey
Posts: 15,489
Registered SVX Classic SVX
Re: Is this attached picture an Italian car ? Yes it is.

As far as I have read on the issue he merely made some signature additions to the concept that Subaru engineers already had drawn up... So I would say no, he was merely an influence, not a founder of the design

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-13-2008, 08:25 PM
SVXMAN2001 SVXMAN2001 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: long island, NY
Posts: 2,033
Send a message via AIM to SVXMAN2001
Re: Is this attached picture an Italian car ? Yes it is.

Niki, clearly an answer you are looking for depends on who you are asking...if it were me and road and track magazine, the car is not of Italian design, rather slight Italian touches/influences...
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-13-2008, 08:33 PM
gstape gstape is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Caledonia, Michigan
Posts: 56
Re: Is this attached picture an Italian car ? Yes it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NikFu S. View Post
But is it or is it not ok to say Guigaro "designed" the body?
I would sure say it is. It was his company that was in charge of the original sketches, clay models, refinement etc. Of course he was working for Subaru and staying within their parameters, but he did the design.

In the automotive world the OEM often hires out work for design, engineering, and manufacturing. The OEM tells the supplier what they need (parameters, specs, themes, etc) and the supplier does the work. In this case Italiadesign (did I spell that right?) did the design.

Is the Toyota Tundra a Japanese truck? hmmm
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-13-2008, 08:40 PM
gstape gstape is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Caledonia, Michigan
Posts: 56
Re: Is this attached picture an Italian car ? Yes it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gstape View Post
I would sure say it is. It was his company that was in charge of the original sketches, clay models, refinement etc. Of course he was working for Subaru and staying within their parameters, but he did the design.

In the automotive world the OEM often hires out work for design, engineering, and manufacturing. The OEM tells the supplier what they need (parameters, specs, themes, etc) and the supplier does the work. In this case Italiadesign (did I spell that right?) did the design.

Is the Toyota Tundra a Japanese truck? hmmm
OK I take that back a little, I just read the article again (I have the magazine) here is a quote "With Subaru however, his job was to reinforce the design path that Sarukawa's team had chosen"
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-14-2008, 02:02 AM
paddlesnz's Avatar
paddlesnz paddlesnz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 331
Send a message via Yahoo to paddlesnz
Re: Is this attached picture an Italian car ? Yes it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomsSVX View Post
As far as I have read on the issue he merely made some signature additions to the concept that Subaru engineers already had drawn up... So I would say no, he was merely an influence, not a founder of the design

Tom
That is not how the Japanese see it though.

November 1985 - The first meeting to discuss the parameters for the new Alcyone SVX take place at Fuji Heavy Industries' Gunma office. Theme for the new model is 'The Philosohpy of Grand Tourer', base will be the new model Legacy, design concept will be 'sportscar' meets 'luxury coupe'. Design will be handled by an outside designer.

January 1986 - Ital Design is chosen and FHI presents their required design elements to Giugiaro. A sportscar with the roominess of a sedan, ability to seat 4 adults comfortably on a long cruise, high safety levels, a 6 cylinder 3 litre engine and a 4 cylinder engine and the look of an aircraft canopy/cockpit. Subaru also wanted fixed headlights but were concerned that Giugiaro would use retractable headlights which he liked at the time.

March 1986 - Ital Design completes renderings of 3 possible designs. One of these designs is made into a full size clay model.

August 1986 - The full size clay model is transported from Moncalieri, Italy to the Subaru Design Studio in Gunma, Japan. FHI is extremely happy with the result.

October 1987 - SVX Project Team formally begins. The body size is widened, the wheelbase is lengthened, only a new 6 cylinder engine will be used, the design concept is changed from 'sporty' to 'dynamic' and 'elegant'. The image must be 'Subaru' but Giugiaro's design form must NOT be vandalised. The aerodynamic cabin must maintain the image of a jetfighter canopy.

November 1987 - Prototype mule with a 3 litre engine is shipped to the USA and driven from LA to San Francisco by Project Leader. Confirmed that theme should be Grand Touring. Stylish, comfortable, spacious, all-weather, high safety and high spec engine. "A pilot disembarks from his aircraft, his SVX awaits on the tarmac for the enjoyable long cruise home."

March 1988 - Subaru produces full size clay model which is close to final design. Giuigaro in Japan to assist.
__________________
paddlesnz

1993 Subaru Alcyone SVX
1980 Isuzu 117 Coupe Giugiaro Edition
1999 Mazda Astina
2006 Honda Legend
2006 Toyota Mark X Premium
2007 Toyota bB
2007 Mazda Roadster RS
2012 Peugeot 208 Allure
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-14-2008, 02:50 AM
svxistentialist's Avatar
svxistentialist svxistentialist is offline
Jersey Girl
Alcyone Gold Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ireland
Posts: 8,270
Send a message via Skype™ to svxistentialist
Registered SVX
Re: Is this attached picture an Italian car ? Yes it is.

There is nothing in any of the literature that we know to discredit the fact that Giugiaro designed the Subaru SVX.

I'm in agreement with Paddles here in that the Japanese company and the design team are proud of their association with ItalDesign and Giugiaro in the design and production of the car.

Before I say more I would like to add a comment on AnthonyBuchanan's premise for the thread The title says: "Is this attached picture an Italian car? Yes it is."

No it's not. If the question was: "Is this attached picture an Italian designed car?" the answer yes would be correct.

To illustrate the point I'll pose another question: Is the last Mazda RX7 a Japanese car?

Yes of course it is. It was built in Japan by a Japanese company using their rotary engines using a very sporty drive train, and with a proud tradition of Japanese rotary sports cars behind it.

However, this model was designed by a team of designers in California!

Does this make it an American car? NO. It makes it an American designed car. But the vehicle is Japanese, and renowned for being uniquely Japanese.

On any level you care to look at it the Subaru SVX is a Japanese car. It is a Japanese car with an Italian designed body. In my youth I would drive nothing else except Italian cars. I liked their brio, their sporty handling, all the things the word Italian lends to a car. I grew to hate their bad electrics and their propensity to rust, so I don't drive Italian any more.

To me, and this is my own opinion, the Subaru SVX is a better car for being Japanese. It just happens to be wearing an expensive Italian suit .

Joe
__________________
Black Betty [Bam a Lam!] '93 UK spec, still languishing Betty
Jersey Girl Silver '92 UK [Channel Isles] 40K Jersey Girl @ Mersea
Candy Purple Honda Blackbird Plum Dangerous
White X2 RVR Mitsubishi 1800GDI. Vantastic

40,000 miles Jersey Girl
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-14-2008, 03:43 AM
subbieatnz's Avatar
subbieatnz subbieatnz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Christchurch, NZ
Posts: 1,142
Registered SVX
Re: Is this attached picture an Italian car ? Yes it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svxistentialist View Post
To illustrate the point I'll pose another question: Is the last Mazda RX7 a Japanese car?

Yes of course it is. It was built in Japan by a Japanese company using their rotary engines using a very sporty drive train, and with a proud tradition of Japanese rotary sports cars behind it.

However, this model was designed by a team of designers in California!

Does this make it an American car? NO. It makes it an American designed car. But the vehicle is Japanese, and renowned for being uniquely Japanese.
Um i thought the last RX7 was designed buy an japanese designer that had been with mazda since 1973. he came to nz earlyer this year and they had an interview with him. they said hes most well known for designing the last shape RX7. i think it showed his original drawings. im trying to find the artical at the moment.
__________________
1992 NZDM SVX Maroonish Red/Black ( 1st car ive owned with an cd player ) Has been retired
1989 Vortex 6 Maroon
1983 RX Silver Grey
1973 1400 GSR Yelo 2 Door Coupe awaiting Restoration

Last edited by subbieatnz; 10-14-2008 at 03:53 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-14-2008, 04:52 AM
svxistentialist's Avatar
svxistentialist svxistentialist is offline
Jersey Girl
Alcyone Gold Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ireland
Posts: 8,270
Send a message via Skype™ to svxistentialist
Registered SVX
Re: Is this attached picture an Italian car ? Yes it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subbieatnz View Post
Um i thought the last RX7 was designed buy an japanese designer that had been with mazda since 1973. he came to nz earlyer this year and they had an interview with him. they said hes most well known for designing the last shape RX7. i think it showed his original drawings. im trying to find the artical at the moment.
The team was led by Tom Matano. Matano was born in Japan but lives in the US since he was about 15. He has since left Mazda and works for Academia in San Francisco.

The point is that the car was designed in the US, but that does not make it an American car.

Joe
__________________
Black Betty [Bam a Lam!] '93 UK spec, still languishing Betty
Jersey Girl Silver '92 UK [Channel Isles] 40K Jersey Girl @ Mersea
Candy Purple Honda Blackbird Plum Dangerous
White X2 RVR Mitsubishi 1800GDI. Vantastic

40,000 miles Jersey Girl
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-14-2008, 04:54 AM
svxistentialist's Avatar
svxistentialist svxistentialist is offline
Jersey Girl
Alcyone Gold Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ireland
Posts: 8,270
Send a message via Skype™ to svxistentialist
Registered SVX
Re: Is this attached picture an Italian car ? Yes it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subbieatnz View Post
Um i thought the last RX7 was designed buy an japanese designer that had been with mazda since 1973. he came to nz earlyer this year and they had an interview with him. they said hes most well known for designing the last shape RX7. i think it showed his original drawings. im trying to find the artical at the moment.
I think he's more famous for designing the Miata.

This also is interesting, because the Brits would probably [with justification! ] claim that the Miata is really a modern re-work of the Colin Chapman designed Lotus Elan.

Nothing new under the sun, eh?

Joe
__________________
Black Betty [Bam a Lam!] '93 UK spec, still languishing Betty
Jersey Girl Silver '92 UK [Channel Isles] 40K Jersey Girl @ Mersea
Candy Purple Honda Blackbird Plum Dangerous
White X2 RVR Mitsubishi 1800GDI. Vantastic

40,000 miles Jersey Girl
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-14-2008, 05:45 AM
subbieatnz's Avatar
subbieatnz subbieatnz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Christchurch, NZ
Posts: 1,142
Registered SVX
Re: Is this attached picture an Italian car ? Yes it is.

it has his name as Youichi Sato. hes also done the mazda 6 and rx evolv concept
__________________
1992 NZDM SVX Maroonish Red/Black ( 1st car ive owned with an cd player ) Has been retired
1989 Vortex 6 Maroon
1983 RX Silver Grey
1973 1400 GSR Yelo 2 Door Coupe awaiting Restoration
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-14-2008, 06:26 AM
svxistentialist's Avatar
svxistentialist svxistentialist is offline
Jersey Girl
Alcyone Gold Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ireland
Posts: 8,270
Send a message via Skype™ to svxistentialist
Registered SVX
Re: Is this attached picture an Italian car ? Yes it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subbieatnz View Post
it has his name as Youichi Sato. hes also done the mazda 6 and rx evolv concept

Sato was part of the team that Matano headed.

After Matano left to take up lecturing in Design Theory a Scot called Callum headed up the Mazda design team. Callum appears now to have moved [sideways] to parent Ford USA, and I suspect Sato has taken over from him.

__________________
Black Betty [Bam a Lam!] '93 UK spec, still languishing Betty
Jersey Girl Silver '92 UK [Channel Isles] 40K Jersey Girl @ Mersea
Candy Purple Honda Blackbird Plum Dangerous
White X2 RVR Mitsubishi 1800GDI. Vantastic

40,000 miles Jersey Girl
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-14-2008, 07:32 AM
RSVX RSVX is offline
Network Design Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Boiling Springs, SC
Posts: 4,344
Re: Is this attached picture an Italian car ? Yes it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonybuchanan View Post
RSVX, are you saying I am not playing nice ?

I have a question to ponder so I bring it up and I'm being a jerk ?

The fact that these stickers are being worn by some and judging by other threads, desired by others, indicates to me that there is something here that needs to be explored. It seems that a lot of people think the Italians may have had a huge influence on this design if not total influence and want to "represent" that.
It wasn't directed at you. I'm just pre-empting the typical response to your threads.
__________________
Chris
SVX World Network Administrator
-1993 Subaru SVX LS-L, Barcelona Red, #46, 160,000+ Miles (Sold to SomethingElse)
-2011 Toyota Sienna SE, Black, 30,000+ Miles (Swagger Wagon )
-2002 BMW R 1150R ABS, Black, 26,000+ Miles (Daily Driver )
SVX Owner from February 1997 to March 2008
SVX Online Community Member since February 1998
SVX World Network Member since February 2002, Member #520

Life is a game. Play to win.
The world belongs to those who can laugh at it.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-14-2008, 07:35 AM
TomsSVX's Avatar
TomsSVX TomsSVX is offline
Maniac modifier
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Branchburg, New Jersey
Posts: 15,489
Registered SVX Classic SVX
Re: Is this attached picture an Italian car ? Yes it is.

That was exactly my point... It is not an Italian car, it was merely touched by one. I also have a hard time with why this is such an issue. Why does this justification of the car being Italian press so hard for so many? Why can they not accept that it is a Japanese car? IMHO to Giugiaro designed the car is also not lending credit to the entire design team and to only one man, who may have been a major influence, yet still... did not form it as a brain child of his own. I do totally agree with the reference though, it is a Japanese car wearing an Italian suit

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-14-2008, 07:45 AM
SVXMAN2001 SVXMAN2001 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: long island, NY
Posts: 2,033
Send a message via AIM to SVXMAN2001
Re: Is this attached picture an Italian car ? Yes it is.

and to add some more fuel to the fire and confusion, dare I say that the car has been labeled "porsche engineering with jaguar refinement"...the SVX appears to be a melting pot of international influences.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-14-2008, 08:39 AM
TomsSVX's Avatar
TomsSVX TomsSVX is offline
Maniac modifier
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Branchburg, New Jersey
Posts: 15,489
Registered SVX Classic SVX
Re: Is this attached picture an Italian car ? Yes it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVXMAN2001 View Post
and to add some more fuel to the fire and confusion, dare I say that the car has been labeled "porsche engineering with jaguar refinement"...the SVX appears to be a melting pot of international influences.
I got good money on who said that

Tom
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2015 SVX World Network
(208)-906-1122