Hmmm...time for 4.444 gears!

[Chiketkd]

Well, my 4.11 trans went out after 7-8 months of drag racing on it. After noticing my 1-2 shift was occuring at redline over the last month (Harv had mentioned it was due to a slipping band), I lost 2nd gear this morning followed shortly by fourth.

I think what killed it wasn't that I broke a gear (haven't heard any grinding, etc), but that I was driving around on it for several months will the brake band not properly adjusted (which wore it out prematurely).

Either way, it's time to rebuild, and I'll be ordering a '96 Legacy Outback 4.444 4EAT and matching rear diff from Tom's (svxfiles) parts guy on Monday.

I should be back at the drag strip in 3-4 weeks and it'll be interesting to see what improvement these gears will have in dropping my 1/4 mile et...

-Chike

My name is Chike and I'm addicted to drag racing...

best of luck...im interested to see the difference with the gear change
and at least you know why the tranny went

[Amazonparrot]

Chike, sorry i missed your call this evening, sorry to hear about your tranny, its seems as though we are in the same boat now Give me a call tommorow after 5 if you get the chance, ill be putting my new wheels and tires on the car. Also, keep me posted on all the prices and parts availbility through Tom's guy, b/c i might be ordering one myself if things don't improve by adjusting things. Talk to you later, and the best of luck!

[Chiketkd]

Originally Posted by Weasel 22

best of luck...im interested to see the difference with the gear change
and at least you know why the tranny went

Thanks Shawn!

The shorter gearing should definitely improve my launch & 60' times. Hopefully from doing this gear swap, I'll be solidly in the 14's.

Yeah, it's definitely good to know why the trans failed. I plan to do a brake band adjustment on the Outback 4EAT before installing it, to make sure everything is at the factory setting.

-Chike

[Chiketkd]

Originally Posted by Amazonparrot

Chike, sorry i missed your call this evening, sorry to hear about your tranny, its seems as though we are in the same boat now Give me a call tommorow after 5 if you get the chance, ill be putting my new wheels and tires on the car. Also, keep me posted on all the prices and parts availbility through Tom's guy, b/c i might be ordering one myself if things don't improve by adjusting things. Talk to you later, and the best of luck!

Andrew,

I'll give you a call tomorrow when I get the chance - will be pretty busy with the wife and kids all weekend though.

I'll let you know about prices, but remember the switch to 4.11 or 4.44 gears will typically run you at least $450-$550 for the trans & diff.

His parts guy does have a '96 Impreza trans for sale for $275, and I could sell you my 4.11 rear diff for $50 (already grinded out to accept the SVX ltd slip hub) which will put you at $325 + fluids + gaskets if you went the 4.11 route.

4.44 trans and diffs generally run between $400-$500 for the trans and another $100 for the diff.

-Chike

[mbtoloczko]

Hey Chike,

Are you going to tear apart the old tranny to see exactly what stopped working?

Mychailo

[Chiketkd]

Originally Posted by mbtoloczko

Hey Chike,

Are you going to tear apart the old tranny to see exactly what stopped working?

Mychailo

I'll be doing the swap at Tom's place. I'm all but certain the band just wore out completly on it, but if Tom wants to tear into it, he's more than welcome to...

They are some items that are in excellent condition that I'll be keeping though - rear transfer clutch assembly, 4.11 front diff, etc. This trans only has about 30K miles on the rebuild that Huck369 did.

-Chike

[SVX-FF]

I am sorry that you lost your tranny Chike. I know all to well about tranny replacements. I am starting my parts collection for a 5MT swap if this one goes out. Good luck with the 4.44 swap. Keep us posted.

Steve

[Chiketkd]

Originally Posted by SVX-FF

I am sorry that you lost your tranny Chike. I know all to well about tranny replacements. I am starting my parts collection for a 5MT swap if this one goes out. Good luck with the 4.44 swap. Keep us posted.

Steve

Thanks Steve! Can't wait to have even shorter gearing in this car...

Wow! Good luck with your future 5MT swap. That'll be one amazing SVX.

-Chike

[demonsvx]

Where is the parts man who sells these transmissions and what kind of condition are they in? I have had no luck finding a low mileage, preferably under 50k near me. Thanks

[Chiketkd]

Originally Posted by demonsvx

Where is the parts man who sells these transmissions and what kind of condition are they in? I have had no luck finding a low mileage, preferably under 50k near me. Thanks

The place is somewhere close to the MD/WV line. The low mileage ones are rare, but he does have a few. I'll PM you his info Monday, so long as Tom (svxfiles) is cool with it.

The Outback trans I'm getting has over 100K on it. I'm not too worried about mileage...

-Chike

[demonsvx]

Ill be looking foward to it thanks!

[oab_au]

The flaring that Chike had, is not the same as the typical flaring, that we get on the 2nd/3rd gear change. When this happens the band just releases early, before the high clutch has applied. This does not wear the band as it is not slipping.

In Chikes case the band is slipping big time. What happens is, in first the forward clutch is on, to go to 2nd, we only have to apply the band to brake the front sun gear to a stop. This gives 2nd. What has happened is that when the TCU sent the signal to change, the band was applied but slipped too much, to stop the drum from spinning. It was only when the engine 'over rev cut out' came on to cut the torque, that the band could stop the drum from spinning. So from the time the signal for change was sent at 5400 rpms till the torque was cut at 5750, the band was burning up.

Why this happened is the way the changes are set up to take place. Subaru has allways tried to have the changes as smooth as possible, with no thump. It is this action that has caused the problem that Chike has found.
When the TCU sends the signal to the shift solenoid, it switches to allow a pilot pressure to move the shift spool valve across, to open the ports and direct line pressure, to the brake band servo, to apply the band.

If this was all that happened, there would be a big thump as the band suddenly stopped the sun gear drum. To soften the change there is another unit called the 2A accumulator. This is a little hydraulic cylinder, with a piston and spring, that is connected into the line going to the band servo. It acts to soften the application of the line pressure on the band servo. The pressure builds up gradually as the accumulator piston is forced back against the spring. This causes the band to slowly apply to change into 2nd. without a thump.

What needs to be done is to send the valve body away to one of the good auto box builders (DRG, Level 10) . Get them to alter the spring or orifices, to allow the pressure to rise quicker, so the band is applied with less time to slip. I reckon you would only have to explain the problem, for them to know what to do. This modification will make the changes harder,and the box will not be as smooth, but it will make it survive the treatment longer.

Harvey.

[Chiketkd]

Originally Posted by demonsvx

Ill be looking foward to it thanks!

PM sent!

-Chike

[Chiketkd]

Originally Posted by oab_au

The flaring that Chike had, is not the same as the typical flaring, that we get on the 2nd/3rd gear change. When this happens the band just releases early, before the high clutch has applied. This does not wear the band as it is not slipping.

In Chikes case the band is slipping big time. What happens is, in first the forward clutch is on, to go to 2nd, we only have to apply the band to brake the front sun gear to a stop. This gives 2nd. What has happened is that when the TCU sent the signal to change, the band was applied but slipped too much, to stop the drum from spinning. It was only when the engine 'over rev cut out' came on to cut the torque, that the band could stop the drum from spinning. So from the time the signal for change was sent at 5400 rpms till the torque was cut at 5750, the band was burning up.

Why this happened is the way the changes are set up to take place. Subaru has allways tried to have the changes as smooth as possible, with no thump. It is this action that has caused the problem that Chike has found.
When the TCU sends the signal to the shift solenoid, it switches to allow a pilot pressure to move the shift spool valve across, to open the ports and direct line pressure, to the brake band servo, to apply the band.

If this was all that happened, there would be a big thump as the band suddenly stopped the sun gear drum. To soften the change there is another unit called the 2A accumulator. This is a little hydraulic cylinder, with a piston and spring, that is connected into the line going to the band servo. It acts to soften the application of the line pressure on the band servo. The pressure builds up gradually as the accumulator piston is forced back against the spring. This causes the band to slowly apply to change into 2nd. without a thump.

What needs to be done is to send the valve body away to one of the good auto box builders (DRG, Level 10) . Get them to alter the spring or orifices, to allow the pressure to rise quicker, so the band is applied with less time to slip. I reckon you would only have to explain the problem, for them to know what to do. This modification will make the changes harder,and the box will not be as smooth, but it will make it survive the treatment longer.

Harvey.

Good info Harv! I don't think I'll be able to invest in a modified valve body at this time, but my next 4.44 trans from a '97 Legacy Outback should hopefully last much longer. Ordered the trans and diff today and I can't wait...

-Chike