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  #1  
Old 01-26-2003, 05:21 AM
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A/C fogging up

I posted the query below on Technical, so far 19 views and no answers. Anybody got an idea if something could be blocking up, low on dessicant, whatever??

Your opinions and views and solutions would be appreciated.
Joe

<<
Can anybody tell me why cars with aircon are more likely to fog up inside than cars without it?

OK, this is a stupid question to ask on a US site, you guys have no experience of cars without A/C.

In the early 90s very few cars in Ireland would have had aircon, except possibly the Merc S class and a few others. In contrast to this, most imported cars from Japan come with Aircon. It seems to be on all Japanese cars, but curiously even their top models do without driver airbags which are common here.

We have two Japanese import cars, both of them fog up inside, the Honda particularly badly.

Is there a drain plug on an evapourator that gets clogged, does the matrix get clogged with dirt or what causes the hot damp air to fill the car when parked?

This is noticable failure on most older imported cars, but my brother has a 99 Honda Accord which does the same, he is thinking of getting rid of it for a Volvo the problem annoys him so much.

What gives?? Is there a cure?

Thanks in advance

Joe
>>
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  #2  
Old 01-26-2003, 05:42 AM
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Hi Joe!

I worked during a few years in commercial A/C and I think I might help you understand what is going on.

Not sure though if I will have the solution because i don't have one yet.

I need you to answer a few questions:

In which conditions does this happen?
Anytime of the year or just under specific weather conditions?
Does it happen when the vehicle is under bright sunshine and/or even when it is inside a garage?
Also need to know if it happens after using the car's A/C or if it occurs at any moment?

You said other cars in the Family suffer from the same.
It happens on all the cars at generically the same periods?

Tone
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  #3  
Old 01-26-2003, 05:57 AM
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Re: A/C fogging up

Quote:
Originally posted by svxistentialist
I posted the query below on Technical, so far 19 views and no answers. Anybody got an idea if something could be blocking up, low on dessicant, whatever??

Your opinions and views and solutions would be appreciated.
Joe

<<
Can anybody tell me why cars with aircon are more likely to fog up inside than cars without it?

OK, this is a stupid question to ask on a US site, you guys have no experience of cars without A/C.

In the early 90s very few cars in Ireland would have had aircon, except possibly the Merc S class and a few others. In contrast to this, most imported cars from Japan come with Aircon. It seems to be on all Japanese cars, but curiously even their top models do without driver airbags which are common here.

We have two Japanese import cars, both of them fog up inside, the Honda particularly badly.

Is there a drain plug on an evapourator that gets clogged, does the matrix get clogged with dirt or what causes the hot damp air to fill the car when parked?

This is noticable failure on most older imported cars, but my brother has a 99 Honda Accord which does the same, he is thinking of getting rid of it for a Volvo the problem annoys him so much.

What gives?? Is there a cure?

Thanks in advance

Joe
>>
Hmmm. I would've thought it was the opposite - cars with A/C would be less likely to fog up
The A/C tend to dry out the air. That's why on most cars the A/C compressor runs when defog is turned on.
Or am I full of it ..... again.
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  #4  
Old 01-26-2003, 06:20 AM
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Fog is always created by warm, moist air being condensed by cooling. Until the air inside the car is brought to relatively the same temp and humidity the fog will be noticeable, that's why it tapers off instead of instantly disappearing. Notice that I didn't say that it was the cool air in the system hitting the warm ambient cabin air. Sometimes it's exactly the opposite and the fog quickly dissapates compared to other times when the cabin air is warmer.

We have the same issues on this side of the pond, I get about fifteen to twenty similar complaints each season. The reason it's more noticeable on newer (and smaller) cars is that the evaporators are made smaller to fit better. The result is that they drop the cabin to the same temperature but they do it by cooling a smaller volume of air much more quickly. This creates a larger temperature differential and the fog is more noticeable. Older cars had larger evaporators and cooled a larger volume of air to the same temp, just more slowly and with less temp differences.
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  #5  
Old 01-26-2003, 11:34 AM
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had this problem with the WRX (getting better), but probably more due to the out-gassing of the new vinyl, rubber and adhesives. not the case with your SVX i'll bet . interesting about the smaller evaporators. maybe try and find a big bag of dessicant?
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  #6  
Old 01-26-2003, 12:17 PM
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Hi,

You're right: A/C dryes the air by condensating it in the evaporator and draining it to the outside of the car.

However it will only happen if it is turned on.

As soon as you turn it off the water still in the evaporator fins and in the condensate tray will evaporate to the interior of the car creating fog if the cold surfaces inside are cold enough (and windshield glass usually is).

The general reason to have foggy conditions has to do with the presence of water inside the car, either through A/C condensates, an infiltration of rain water or even simply by putting inside the car a wet umbrella or raincoat.

All these situations will create fog inside the car if temperature of mainly metal and glass surfaces are colder than surrounding air.

That's why, when you have bright sun after rain conditions, there's a tendency to have fog inside the car.

Tone
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  #7  
Old 01-26-2003, 03:25 PM
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I had exactly the same problem with my SVX when I first had it. The first culprit was water entering the boot through the rear lights, which seems to have been cured by using silicone sealant.

The second thing is to use the A/C regularly. We have found that there is no noticable change in fuel consumption from using it, so drive around with it on 'auto' for most of the time. This has completely removed the problem.
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  #8  
Old 01-27-2003, 03:50 AM
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Fog clearing

Thanks guys,

Everything you say here is a help.

Ann's car fogs up more than mine vs With the aircon ON, it should be drier.

This makes sense Colin. Ann hates the aircon for this reason says it dries out her nostrils.. She turns it on for about 10 seconds till it clears a 10" patch in front of her nose, then she switches it off. On a tangential topic, ever noticed the number of the fairer sex in the wintertime who will drive their car with only a patch cleared in front of the driver? No side windows cleaned, no rear screen cleaned. I reckon this is a fair indicator that they don't feel the need to look around at what other drivers are doing, or see what is going on behind. [Dons flame suit]

Tone, moisture in the condensor and tray forcing it's way into the cabin due to the heat is my guess, and condensing on the glass. Any idea if turning on Recirc when parking would cause this damp air to stay out, or would the door shut make it worse, keeping it in the cabin??

Tone, welcome, have not seen a Portuguese member on here so far. If we holiday on the Algarve this year, are you in the South?, anywhere near?

Andy, good point, will have a quick check on both cars and see if there are any leaks that could be going un-noticed, and would improve matters if fixed.

Thanks for the help guys, will keep you posted what I find.

Joe
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Last edited by svxistentialist; 01-27-2003 at 03:53 AM.
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  #9  
Old 01-27-2003, 04:37 AM
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oh

check and see if ur recir button is on.....if it is, turn it off
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  #10  
Old 01-28-2003, 02:58 AM
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Hi Joe.

Recirculating the air in the car will not improve the internal foggy situation and it may even get worse because recirculating air passes trough the evaporator and if it is wet (after A/C was functioning) it will dry it out at the cost of bringing the moisture to the cockpit.

On the other hand if you keep fresh air coming by switching off the recirculation the relative humidity inside will be lower all the time but you will have to keep up with the external scents coming in (eh, eh ).

I am not in the Algarve although I was there last year (Albufeira) for ten days.

I am from Porto (you know it better as Oporto, don't know exactly why??!!) and this is in the North, roughly 300km North of Lisbon and 500km from Algarve.

Please go to http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/show...&threadid=8371 and try to comment my doubts/questions.

Tone
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  #11  
Old 01-28-2003, 01:20 PM
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Yellow peril

Hi Tone

Thanks for the help on the recirc, will leave it open as usual.

Like the look of your car, and at E8000 for a '96 with low miles, this seems very fair value.

Certain people on this site who shall be nameless [called Randy] don't get on with yellow cars. Me, I like them, but my Missus won't let me. Go for it if the price is right.

Thanks for the photos, they are good to have, and James in Australia will love to see them. He goes all wobbly kneed at the thought, yellow cars are scarce.

Being '96 with the better oil cooler in the rad, your car should in theory give no trouble with the tranny, but best to check out in advance, expensive to fix.

Also, not trying to be negative, but get a good look at the car before you buy. Hard to be sure with the poor colour rendition, but the rear photos seem to show two different yellows at the back of the car, possibly a legacy of the minor accident. Maybe a trick of the light, but check out for yourself, and look for a discount if the colour is a bad match.

I like the wheels, but would prefer the five spokes. The tyres look very low profile, maybe 40s, so the wheels could be 18" ones. Those tyres would burst a lot on our pot-holed roads, so if Porto has bad roads, put back on the originals and 50 series tyres.

Last, I notice the aerial is stuck about 4" in the up position. This is minor enough. It could be in need of lubrication, and there seems to be snow about the car, so it could be frozen either. Don't worry too much about it, but if it is damaged, use this to bargain your price.

Wish you luck, hope you get it, and it's a good'un.

Joe

PS if the original wheels are available as part of the deal, take them. You can fit one set with winter tyres, swap around as desired.
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  #12  
Old 01-28-2003, 02:47 PM
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Hi Joe.

Thanks for your support and opinion regarding this specific specimen I have found.

It has been chosen between the 14 available in a German based web site and I immediately fell in love with it, not because of the colour, which is not a big deal but because it is a SVX.

Of course the price and feedback from the Subaru rep that has been taking care of the car since the car was sold to the previous owner also played a role in the hunting/picking process.

Thanks also for the reccomendations regarding the paint, the wheels (Pirelli P Zero's on it) and the aerial. The later one I didn't even identified as defect but as a... feature .

I have never actually seen a single SVX live because it was never sold in Portugal and I never saw one in another country but I am a Subaru addicted (I own a Forester) and this one is a "must have" for me.

Just hope it won't give me a lot of headaches .

This forum tends to focus on reliability problems of the car and this makes me less confortable to take the final step and buy the car but I guess this is what people tends to talk about.

The auto tranny is a questionable standard feature of the car but I accept it as a fact.

"See you" in the Euro Forum (by the way, how many are we in Europe?).

Tone
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  #13  
Old 01-28-2003, 08:55 PM
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ummm

ummm, did u read what i said?

heres what i wrote...check and see if ur recir button is on.....if it is, turn it off

turn it off means just that ,,, and yes, if u leave it "off" as i said, it will work better, instead of recurculating moist air, it pulls in fresh air....which tends to be drier then interior stale moist filled air
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  #14  
Old 01-29-2003, 02:01 PM
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Thumbs up

Thanks Double Oh

Yes, it was your remark about recirc that prompted me to ask Tone if closing it on parking might be a cure.

What I wanted to confirm was whether the door closed out the evapourator from the cabin, in which case putting recirc ON before parking would keep the damp outside the cabin.

Obviously not, the door is on the outside of the evapourator, and your advice is spot on.

Thanks again.

Joe
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