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What is worse? Why?
Ok. This one has been building on me for a while and I need to figure it out. One poster may recognize this reaction.....
What is so horrible about an 18 year old having a child? I've know several 17-23 year olds who have gotten pregnant and I have to say that the worst thing they go through that I've seen is the people making it out to be such a "bad situation". Is it not better than drugged? Imprisoned? Killed? Or many other bad situations? Of all the parents Ive known not one, including those who were in their teens, would regret or trade their place in life. Perhaps anything under 17-18 is truly pushing boundaries but in general I don't get it. I'm sure this will get me all kinds of people talking about financial stability and maturity, but think on it for a second. First, I've excluded the underage (under 17, almost 18). Secondly, especially for the parents, honestly ask yourself "if I waited until I was 'ready' would I have ever had children?" Personally, when I was 11, I started thinking about when I would rather have children. I did because I knew a few other kids in school who had a dad, that when walking along side them or seeing them in the front yard would make you think "is that his dad or his grandpa". Better yet, you might think "oh his grandpa is visiting" and you would be WRONG!!! And I personally had a problem with becoming that guy. I decided I never wanted anyone to look at me and wonder if I was 'daddy' or 'poppa'. So, after concluding that I wanted at least 2-3 children, I knew I wanted to have my first by the time I was 22, and guess what, success. |
#2
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Re: What is worse? Why?
Seeing as I live in this age range (18-20ish) I think I can make an accurate position here. Most 18 year olds I know (and I don't live in poverty) can't make it on their own. They can't make enough money to support themselves, some sort of living arrangement, and a child. So, why is it bad that 18 year olds have kids? Well, when they can't support them, why should they bring them into the world?
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-Jason (8/23/07-Present) 1995 Subaru SVX LSi (197k) Polo Green (#1102) 03/95 Mods: DDM Tuning 4500k 35w Low Beam HID, 100w H3 Bulbs, Extra Ground Cables, 15 minute $12.96 mod, svxfiles designed transmission mount (), sporting a "new" tail light bar, silver BBS rims, custom power steering cooler (one that doesn't dump ATF constantly), new negative lead cable, no more third or fourth gear (1977-Present) 1977 Chevrolet Corvette (81k) Silver (12/01/2011-Present) 2005 Subaru Outback 2.5i Limited 5MT (97k) I have a bad feeling about this. -Obi Wan Kenobi |
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Re: What is worse? Why?
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#4
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Re: What is worse? Why?
My best friend had her son at 19.
She has no job and lives with her aunt. It's been really hard for her. But the father joined the Army as soon as they found out she was pregnant. "Finances" is not a good excuse........ Dustin
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-Dustin 1992 Ebony LS-L w/191k miles Mods: a few and acouple more 1995 Brilliant Red L/AWD w/154k miles Mods: Stebro catback exhaust, K&N drop in filter, ECUtune ST1v5, 4.44, lots of JDM goodies 1992 Pearly LS-L w/154k miles Sold Mods: 4.11, rust 2008 DGM Legacy spec.B w/245k miles Mods: Cryotune Stage3, VF52, bushings galore, STi pink springs, Bilstein HDs My Locker The only man alive who drives three "Subu SVS's".......according to my insurance company |
#5
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Re: What is worse? Why?
Finances are a huge issue with having children at any age....especially right now. If an 18 year old couple or single parent can afford a child good for them! But, in reality not all 18 year olds are as rich as Jaime Lynn Spears.
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Rebecca 92 Claret SVX LS-L (180k) 09/91 #5,732 06 Suzuki Boulevard M50 7k 68 Cadillac Coupe DeVille (70k) Storage/hibernation for now. Past SVXs: 94 SVX Emerald Pearl FWD (Sold) 96 SVX Bourdeaux LSi (Sold) 92 Pearl SVX LSL "Stay Puft" 5MT (140k) #148 (RIP) 95 Brilliant Red SVX LS (162k) 12/94 #564 "Killer Tomato" (RIP) |
#6
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Re: What is worse? Why?
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And in any case, there are plenty of good paying jobs out there that are easy to get. The Military just happens to be one of them. Dustin
__________________
-Dustin 1992 Ebony LS-L w/191k miles Mods: a few and acouple more 1995 Brilliant Red L/AWD w/154k miles Mods: Stebro catback exhaust, K&N drop in filter, ECUtune ST1v5, 4.44, lots of JDM goodies 1992 Pearly LS-L w/154k miles Sold Mods: 4.11, rust 2008 DGM Legacy spec.B w/245k miles Mods: Cryotune Stage3, VF52, bushings galore, STi pink springs, Bilstein HDs My Locker The only man alive who drives three "Subu SVS's".......according to my insurance company |
#7
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Re: What is worse? Why?
Ok, but I've already mentioned that simply having a child is often a HUGE motivator to align priorities, get a good job (or just multiple jobs... whatever).
Thank you Odepaj for helping me out on this one.... are kids expensive, well yeah but if you cut out some of the useless stuff that people in this range buy then you wonder what they cannot afford. Most late teen, early 20's guys have a car or two, go through a stereo upgrade stage, many of them even spend insane amounts of money on huge/nice rims, and really what is with the 'new cell phone every 3 months' syndrome? These people do have money, they just spend it like idiots.... not bashing on anyone here for the rims or the low functional vehicles (lets face facts here, my SVX is NOT my family car and never could be!), I'm simply stating that your position in life dictates the fun spending you can have. I'm also not big on exploiting assistance programs, but there are some set up to help low income families get buy. You can get rental assistance, medical assistance, WIC (Women, Infants and Children), food stamps ect... With that out of the way, can someone offer a reason, other than $$$$, that makes it so horrible to be a pregnant/expecting teen? Ok, it can make things hard. Seriously, when is life NOT hard? I know there are some that will agree that life isn't, but those would also be able to recognize that some have a better ability/aptitude than others for dealing with life challenges. I personally take pretty much everything in stride and am capable of dealing with just about everything that has been thrown at me, and I know, 'great for me, not everyone is like that'. But what I'm trying to establish is why everyone seems to feel the need to look at a teen as if there is some life threatening violation. Why is it necessary to make them feel like a piece of crap and say that it's a "mistake", a "problem", or a "bad situation"? Really, how is it possible that in only a couple of short years (from 17 to 19 or 19 to 21) this can go from a huge issue, to a blessing? Then there are the really stupid questions like "what were you thinking?"..... Honestly, WTF do you think they were thinking? They were thinking "ooh this is fun, hey I like this.... ooh baby, ooh baby" Everyone over the age of 15, often younger especially for men, knows that teens are hornballs... many of them will get much worse in the years to come, but it's still a fact. We also know that many of them don't think about much. So is this just what we say because we don't know what else to ask? Is it really that simple? In my opinion, there are just as many teens that are capable of having a child as there are people that should NEVER have children. There are people who make it far past teens and twenties and have a maturity level or motivational level that would never allow them to be a proper parent. I also honestly believe that if you are 40, and have not had a child, you shouldn't. Seriously, by the time they move out you would be 58+. If you have more than one you will be supporting them from retirement funds. Most importantly, by then you have lost your understanding of what young people are like, and your ability to keep up with them. 'Been there done that' is always valuable experience, but people are best at what they are doing, and if you haven't been a 'kid' for a couple of decades or longer, then it will more than jog your memory. |
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tl;dr
I was born when my mom was 19.
She is a very ambitious, driven, loyal, hard-working person. She just was not mentally ready to raise a child at that age, and neither was my 22 year old dad. They divorced after 2 years. According to her, he didn't want much to do with me. Pretty typical Detroit dad, I guess. According to me, as I can remember what my mom was like in her early 20s, she was a person without self-control. Every good quality she had was offset with a bad one, and as luck would have it being raised by this person I was gifted with similar attributes so I could talk about them at length. People are biologically ready to reproduce at what most people consider a very early age. Why not, it is advantageous in a tribal society. Here comes my point. We obviously do not live in a tribal society. Today's world is complex enough nobody has quite enough time to properly mature into the type of person necessary to take account of all possible responsibilities before this desire to procreate emerges. What's worse, puberty seems to begin earlier today than 100 years ago. 18/19 year olds in general are not mentally mature. Very few people are at that age. By having a child at that age you are taking a huge risk, with the greater risk lying in the parents ability to raise the child, not just feed it and watch it grow for 18 years. My sister is 18, and according to an email I received from my mom, pregnant. She does not have a decent job, she lives with her boyfriend who is of shady quality, she is a freaking pothead, she's a slob, she is lazy because her dad spoils her, she has no ambition, dropped out of high school despite having a gift for math, and when I asked her if she was going to keep it or not, she said "I dunno". I thought "This person can not possibly be related to me." There is no way in hell this kid could turn out right without a massive family intervention. On that note I will tell you about my Filipino friends whom I have known since high school. Their family structure uncannily resembles my own. My friend's sister got pregnant and had a child at 18. She too, was a high school drop out. Maybe she got her GED, I dunno, who cares. Anyway this girl's child is over a year old now and walking and quite adorable. This girl has not yet the single party life go. She frequently drops off her kid to her mom and brother, whom are essentially raising her. Dad is in the Philippines, but they are not separated or anything. The child's dad is kind of a bum. He too, is very young. Can't be more than 20 and is certainly not in any sort of child-rearing condition. He does not "raise" his child. His baby's mama's brother and mom and sometimes best friend on occasion when this kid gets brought over, which is frequently, raise this child. Lucky for her to have such a supportive family as her mom prances around the night life in the Yukon she was given last year. Now to the exceptions, we have the two other fili brothers, and my two older brothers. 3 kids to each side. My brothers are not much older than me, and are raising great kids at a young age. Not 18/19 young, but to me mid-20s is pretty young, which is why I have not committed to such a thing yet. They are doing great despite not having much luck financially. Hard times down in south Florida right now. My friend's brothers are also raising children at a young age, early 20s, and doing quite well from what I can see. One of then entered a relationship with a girl who already had a child at 17. They lived with me for a while and there was a lot of drama. The kind that drives people crazy, but in this case they stayed together and had twins, and I think found the right formula, and will be great parents though dad should turn off the X360 every once in a while.
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"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." '92 Dark Teal SVX LS-L, >146,000m 3 pedals, 5 speeds., restoration underway. 2012 Honda Insight, slow but cute. |
#9
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Re: What is worse? Why?
I was 19 when I had my first child...
You are trying to exclude the monetary facter, but in all reality money is the big thing. Do you know what formula costs? If your child has health problems do you know what it cost to keep traveling them to the specialist? It takes roughly $2K within the few months just for onesies and diapers...not including the actual baby clothing. Sure there might be "teens" out there with parents who will take the child at any given time or pay for any necessary debt brought on by the new baby, but in reality most grandparents don't. The cost of baby items such as cribs, walkers, playpens, toys, bottles, etc..is a big chunk of change. Granted..you get stuff from the baby shower, but a child grows rapidly in the first year so out goes all the simple stuff that was given to you (because really, who can afford to take from their own families and give to the new one) You say welfare & WIC. Do you know the guide lines for them? They are not the same as a few years ago. You have 5 yrs. in your life time to collect any cash benefits from welfare. Any other benefits are determined by you family size and income. You have to be at the super poverty level to receive any if little help from them (they are trying to get rid of it all together) That's only scratching the surface with financial stuff. Emotional...as you grow up you make plans for your future. How many people do you know actually factor in a child at the age of 18-20? Most are planning where they are going to go to college. Opps get knocked up..there goes all those plans out the window...now you have to deal with the emotional bearings of not just taking care of yourself but to care for the life of another...to put all your hopes and dreams on the back burner and give every part of your being to this life (all while not losing your sense of self). So instead of going off and getting that degree you so wanted you have to pick up a job so you can keep this child in a comfortable living atmosphere (and when I say comfortable I mean roof, heat, water, electricity, land line, etc..) All this and so much more takes a toll on you emotionally. Another emotional burden is the 3-4am feedings, the constant diaper changings, when the teething happens it's non-stop crying and drooling fest. This does not just take a toll on the mother (who is still trying to recover from birthing) but a toll on the dad if he chose to stick around (which is a whole other ball of wax in itself) This is just small fragments of why I believe "teens" shouldn't have children until they've finished their education, travel a little bit and then are physically, financially and emotionally ready to take on such a huge responsibility. There is only 1 person I know who has it cushy and that is because her parents keep her living in their 1/2 million dollar home, pay for all the child's expenses, take care of her needs, fly her to Hawaii whenever the urge hits her, and on top of it and she can come and go as she pleases doing whatever she wants. To me she is not a parent, her son is being raised by his grandparents. I love my children with every ounce of my being, but I did not plan them and it has been one hell of a rocky road.
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Subaru Ambassador My Locker 14.708 in the 1/4 mile pre-KillerWail '89 XT6 Pearl White~JuiceBox (Project) '92 SVX BoverP~Peej (Down for the moment) 1st Stage II trans installed by AWD,15 & 20 min mods,... |
#10
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Re: What is worse? Why?
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Yes I agree, it is stupid for someone to plan to have a child at 17-20 (personally I don't want kids until 25). But s**t happens and sometimes one comes along that wasn't planned. Thats more the debate here. Finances are a big thing yes, but there are plenty of ways to counter that. Emotional maturity I think is the major factor here. When you face the facts, there are plenty of stupid/idiotic people that shouldn't reproduce.... But that stupidity is usually what allows them to reproduce. But you can't just say "oh, that person is only 17, their kid is gonna be messed up" My ex is 23 (almost 24) and she is a worse parent than my 20 year old friend. To much stuff to add to the equation to say that there is for sure an age where people are ready to have children. Dustin
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-Dustin 1992 Ebony LS-L w/191k miles Mods: a few and acouple more 1995 Brilliant Red L/AWD w/154k miles Mods: Stebro catback exhaust, K&N drop in filter, ECUtune ST1v5, 4.44, lots of JDM goodies 1992 Pearly LS-L w/154k miles Sold Mods: 4.11, rust 2008 DGM Legacy spec.B w/245k miles Mods: Cryotune Stage3, VF52, bushings galore, STi pink springs, Bilstein HDs My Locker The only man alive who drives three "Subu SVS's".......according to my insurance company Last edited by odepaj; 09-28-2008 at 10:30 AM. |
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Re: What is worse? Why?
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This is going into why individuals shouldn't have kids. Not teens, individuals. You mark many traits of people who are not destined to be good parents, they can be found in any age range... look at Willie Nelson.... Quote:
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EDIT- My daughter on the other hand still seems to think there is no difference between falling asleep and dying, and clings to conciosness tighter than a weld seam Teething, yeah that is fun idn't it! Dad sticking around (which is only the start of earning the name 'Dad') has alot to do with our badgering them. By nature we avoid confrontation and hard times, and we tell them that it's going to be the hardest time they've ever known and yet we wonder why they run scared.... that is half the point, can we not use fear? Quote:
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This whole situation reminds me of the stream in 'Robin Hood, Men in Tights' They're acting like the bridge is completely necessary and you'll drown without it, when from at least one perspective the 'river' is a whole 18 inches wide and the stride of your step will get you over it. Last edited by iizbeastie; 09-28-2008 at 11:35 AM. |
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Re: What is worse? Why?
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I also use words like "commonality". Uncanny.
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I have tried to help her, honestly I have. She is just resistant. I gave up. She has no idea how to raise a child and she is not willing to learn in the interim. I was her favorite person at one point, (back when I was an angry wannabe UFC fighter actually), now it seems she doesn't care about what any of us has to say. I'm hedging my bets on the slim chance that if she is anything like us, she will come around on her own given time to figure things out. It took me until I was 22. If she doesn't get it in a few years she never will. In case my point isn't clear which is likely due to my rambling, to summarize, we can't help because she doesn't want help and is in her own words, stupid. Quote:
My opinions on the topic are nothing more than a risk assessment based on personal experience. Lower age, higher risk, until you hit the point where senility becomes an issue.. Quote:
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She isn't just "getting help where she can". She is being lazy and shirking responsibilities onto others, and her family is enabling her. You should hear them complain about it and say the things I am saying (often in a language I can't comprehend and at a high decibel level) while doing the opposite of what they believe. Let me also fill you in that she had the option of staying at her parents house and be spoiled there for free, if she wanted to. She chose to go "live on her own", just like my sister. Quote:
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"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." '92 Dark Teal SVX LS-L, >146,000m 3 pedals, 5 speeds., restoration underway. 2012 Honda Insight, slow but cute. Last edited by NikFu S.; 09-28-2008 at 12:06 PM. |
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Re: What is worse? Why?
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Spoiling children is a whole new issue. Many parents cause harm with this behavior and it's not only annoying in this respect but it will cause frustrations later in life as well.... that includes those that don't have children. This sounds more like a case where her parents messed up and didn't prepare her for life. Just like the secondary education. From what I saw in college (over priced rich kid college that I couldn't afford), those who have tuition paid by the parents don't usually pay attention and waste the money that has been thrown at them since birth. Is it their fault, sure to a point, but parents need to realize that this is not only unnecessary, but will be taken for granted. And yes, you have to learn to deal with all of lifes troubles, period. Quote:
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I will honestly admit that I cannot remember the last year that I didn't look at myself and realize how dumb I was a year or more younger. I still do, perhaps this has something to do with the fact that like you, I study everything and have an insatiable need to know something about everything. If it functions I like knowing how, if it's confusing I figure it out, and if it doesn't make any sense I will muddle over it for days until it does. BUT, I consider that you have a parental age as well as an actual age. No matter how more mature or developed you are, when it comes to raising your own children you are stupid until you're doing it. My parental age is 4, almost 5. Because that is how old my son is. This did not change when I read books on parenting or when I listened to parents in person or on TV. These viewpoints and books will only help you in the slightest degree because they are based on the experience of the writers with the children they have encountered..... Why is it not directly related? Because they have never met your child, and your child is and always will be unique just like we are. I practically raised my nephew (cousins son, but that is what I call him), and it only helped me slightly...... because one, it still wasn't my child, so it still didn't feel the same. I thought it did, but then I had my own. And he and my son have virtually nothing in common personality or behavior wise. Quote:
But this only proves why she shouldn't have children. Not why no teenager can. Quote:
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I agree with both. |
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I'm not ignoring the large chunks of post you have written, just do not feel a need to respond to all of them. Quote:
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__________________
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." '92 Dark Teal SVX LS-L, >146,000m 3 pedals, 5 speeds., restoration underway. 2012 Honda Insight, slow but cute. |
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