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  #16  
Old 11-25-2008, 09:06 PM
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Re: TURBOs!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanosuke View Post
Anyone here Bore/stroke/port+polish?

Know anywhere I can look at the stock specs and pieces?
As far as I know, the stock SVX block is not "Bore-able". Between the open deck design and the sleeve wall thickness, there isn't enough to remove and still have a strong enough cylinder to stand up to 600 HP worth of boost.

Here's a video of a re-sleeved EG33 half-block being milled.



I believe YT looked into the costs of re-sleeving, but they turned out to be fairly drastic.

Now with an engine like that you might be able to bore it out a bit, but the thickness between cylinder is not going to allow much room to work.
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  #17  
Old 11-25-2008, 10:31 PM
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Re: TURBOs!?

Yeah, you don't want to use a td04, lol. Not by a long shot. You could use TWO of them just fine, but one would never cut the mustard. Don't believe me? How about a compressor map? lol



It's only good for what, like.. 220 hp? And that's spinning it way too fast.
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  #18  
Old 11-26-2008, 07:49 AM
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Re: TURBOs!?

That 25k figure I threw out there was not for someone wanting to "slap" on a small turbo. I was referring to someone going for the 600whp mark or even 500whp. You would need a built motor (7k), Turbo (1.5-2k), FMIC and piping, (1-2k depending on if you do it yourself), EMS (1.5k), Injectors, .5k, trans swap to hold the power (5k)... Boom there is 17k and there is still alot of other things that need to be upgraded at the same time...
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  #19  
Old 11-26-2008, 08:32 AM
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Re: TURBOs!?

I have to aggree with him. There would be a lot more success if people would be more realistic. To get big hp numbers takes big $$$. If you want to get it done on the cheap you have to plan very carefully to do so which next to nobody has. People spend too much time online reading about joe tuner's bs 1000hp dyno numbers and get all excited and start planning out builds that will never happen.

The reality is that the car those people really want is the 350hp car they should and could have planned to build in the first place.

There's a good old joke that goes around the drag racing community: What's the difference between a 500hp and 1000hp Supra? A tenth of a second.


Seriously, bs dyno plots and people talking down reasonable performance cars because they stay up every night reading about mega-builds are worse for the well being of true automotive enthusiasts than $4 gas.
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  #20  
Old 11-26-2008, 11:34 AM
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Re: TURBOs!?

A twin Td04 set up is actually very intriguing..... Plus they cost about as much as I can dig out of the couch on any given day....
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  #21  
Old 11-26-2008, 11:44 AM
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Re: TURBOs!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sicksubie View Post
Plus they cost about as much as I can dig out of the couch on any given day....
LOL!

16g's on the DSM board go for nothing.
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  #22  
Old 11-26-2008, 11:45 AM
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Re: TURBOs!?

I don't really care how much hp/ torque I really get. I just want to make an insanely fast SVX. Money is an issue but the way I see it is I can span it out over time. I believe in the SVX to make some big numbers, so in the end if it turns out to be over 400 I will be very happy. I was considering not using forced induction and just seeing what that motor could do but I decided that leaves a lot of room for improvement. Is it practical to push the motor then add a turbo(s) later? That could cut the cost and time down until I want to toss on some boost.


Is cost the worst part of tuning these or is it a side effect of obstacles?

Where can I find info on the EMS' available right now?
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  #23  
Old 11-26-2008, 12:57 PM
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Re: TURBOs!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sicksubie View Post
A twin Td04 set up is actually very intriguing..... Plus they cost about as much as I can dig out of the couch on any given day....
I had two td04s that I got for free

But then I gave them away to some WRX guys who were swapping back to stock turbos.






Dustin
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  #24  
Old 11-26-2008, 01:06 PM
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Re: TURBOs!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanosuke View Post
I don't really care how much hp/ torque I really get. I just want to make an insanely fast SVX. Money is an issue but the way I see it is I can span it out over time. I believe in the SVX to make some big numbers, so in the end if it turns out to be over 400 I will be very happy. I was considering not using forced induction and just seeing what that motor could do but I decided that leaves a lot of room for improvement. Is it practical to push the motor then add a turbo(s) later? That could cut the cost and time down until I want to toss on some boost.


Is cost the worst part of tuning these or is it a side effect of obstacles?

Where can I find info on the EMS' available right now?
To do things right you need to plan your hp/tq numbers first.

YT has his EM solution thread, thats going to be a big opener for performance builds around here!

You can use pretty much any EM you want, but theres different costs and work associated with them.

If you build a motor to run lots of boost, but then run it N/A you're going to be way down on power.

And again, you will want to break in your motor already under boost for longevity. It will also be a better running motor.

Suspension>MT swap>EM>Turbo (low boost)>built motor>Turbo (high boost)

That should be your steps to a proper high-hp SVX.

Get all your ducks lined up and start making serious plans and you'll start to realize just how much is involved.

And going through a build with that process will probably get you to a performance level you are happy with, well before a built motor and lots of boost!





Dustin
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1992 Pearly LS-L w/154k miles Sold Mods: 4.11, rust

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  #25  
Old 11-26-2008, 05:17 PM
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Re: TURBOs!?

The best way to plan is to get a horsepower figure in mind before you set out for anything. From there you can determine what you'll need to replace/upgrade and you can figure out before you do anything whether or not a project is actually feasible moneywise. That will make a big difference. Not only that but you need to decide what nature of horsepower you want. A 500whp car at 7k rpm and a 500whp car at 4500 rpm are going to be WAY diffferent cars, and knowing exactly what you want is a VERY good way to start. Do you want a street monster or a track machine, the choice is yours! And yes, you can sometimes have both, but you just have to do it right, and spend the $$ where it needs to be spent. I've never regretted buying new parts with a warranty whenever I could, and spending less for the cheaper part I've often regretted. Not saying you can't do a good build for cheap, but you just have to figure out what parts you can spend less on and get the same result.

Always guess the highest price you see for a product, because you seldom get a "sweet deal" on enough parts to actually make a budget build. lol It sounds stupid, but sit down and physically write down what your goals are. It will help you plan better, visualize what you want and ultimately help you get where you're going with less headaches.

The moral is: Going blindly into a project like this is a GOOD way to spend more money than you need to, break parts, and maybe even give up on your baby altogether. We don't want that, do we?

p.s. Sorry for my rant, that's just how I see it.
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  #26  
Old 11-26-2008, 11:21 PM
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Re: TURBOs!?

Don't apologize for the rant, its the best way to get things out.

Why is setting a horsepower number so important? Why can't I just do the upgrades that I know work and then see what the horsepower is?

My plan of action for a Track MONSTER:

Strip out everything, interior, engine, suspension components, yatta, take off the doors trunk hood.

Do bodywork. Do some custom fiber glassing. Construct custom doors. Freeze sunroof, rear windows. Install manual window rollers in front. Whatever. You understand. Paint...

Clean engine components and such. Measure wear and everything else.

Buy 6 speed transmission, change gear ratios. Increase third and fifth. Maybe others if I can find them.

Port polish heads, buy cams/ fab cams.

Turbo (needs more research)

Fabricate headers + exhaust/ intake.

Pistons, rings, rods.

(need more research to complete Plan A)
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  #27  
Old 11-26-2008, 11:31 PM
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Re: TURBOs!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by odepaj View Post
To do things right you need to plan your hp/tq numbers first.

YT has his EM solution thread, thats going to be a big opener for performance builds around here!

You can use pretty much any EM you want, but theres different costs and work associated with them.

If you build a motor to run lots of boost, but then run it N/A you're going to be way down on power.

And again, you will want to break in your motor already under boost for longevity. It will also be a better running motor.

Suspension>MT swap>EM>Turbo (low boost)>built motor>Turbo (high boost)

That should be your steps to a proper high-hp SVX.

Get all your ducks lined up and start making serious plans and you'll start to realize just how much is involved.

And going through a build with that process will probably get you to a performance level you are happy with, well before a built motor and lots of boost!





Dustin
So here's my question, if I'm serious about taking the steps and planning it out, since I already have a 5 speed am I better off holding off everything untill I get a stand alone and can afford the whole shi-bang at once??

Or

Do I take one of the other options looming at me behind these mysterious doors....

Door 1: Take the sweet deal on f/i motor upgrade parts and either,
A. not build it yet and sit and look at the parts as they sit in a box... untill I can afford the turbo and the rest of it all, or
B. build the motor slap on a smaller turbo with piping and everything set up for an almost plug and play replacement of a bigger turbo?(most immediately expensive option)

Door 2: Pass up the deal, save the money and wait for EM and buy my Koni build first and just stay N/A for a while.

Door 3: Wait for EM, turbo it with a smaller turbo, like mentioned before, but run small boost on stock internals, and save for motor build.


Any suggestions?

Last edited by Johnybeas; 11-26-2008 at 11:34 PM.
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  #28  
Old 11-26-2008, 11:37 PM
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Re: TURBOs!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevin View Post

...
The moral is: Going blindly into a project like this is a GOOD way to spend more money than you need to, break parts, and maybe even give up on your baby altogether. We don't want that, do we?

p.s. Sorry for my rant, that's just how I see it.
Amen, been there done that, with my 5 spd conversion.... didn't know enough before I started... thought I did but I was clueless....
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  #29  
Old 11-26-2008, 11:41 PM
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Re: TURBOs!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanosuke View Post
...

Why is setting a horsepower number so important? Why can't I just do the upgrades that I know work and then see what the horsepower is?



..

It's important because many things on these motors are just still unknowns simply because no one has done it. You need to know what CFM your motor makes now, what your target hp. is, and then if you decide turbo is the way to go, what CFM your turbo needs to be to get you to your desired horsepower. From that you can figure what amount of boost you need, you can determine what stock parts would survive and what would not. From there you start to get a pretty good idea of the costs that becomes involved and you can start to get your head around what is REALLY needed to make it happen.

You can never overplan something like this, and yes having a hp. goal in mind is a good place to start. If you just start "slapping" parts on/together it'll never be what you hoped for, and you'll wish you'd taken the time to do it right the first time.

As for myself, I am planning on a 250-ish whp. low pressure turbo system that will simply make the car feel like it looks!

And no, I'm really NOT trying to rain on your parade. I'm just saying take the time to figure out what you really want, learn and read a LOT, and you CAN it it right the first time. What you want to do really can be done, just not as easily as you'd originally hoped. But that's not a deterant either! It just means you need to know the ins and outs of something before modifying it!

Some good books to check out (or buy) concerning the matter are:

Maximum Boost by Corky Bell, TURBO by Jay K. Miller, How to Tune and Modify Engine Management Systems by Jeff Hartman, Turbocharging Performance Handbook by Jeff Hartman, and Superchargers Turbochargers and Nitrous Oxide (can't remember the author.) These are all books that I bought and have read from cover to cover more than once, and I don't regret it at all. I now have a MUCH better idea of what I want and more importantly how to get it! At least flip through ONE of these to get you going!

And finally good luck with whatever it is you decide to do. All of us here and waiting to see some SVX's put down some solid numbers! Go make us proud!
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Last edited by Nevin; 11-26-2008 at 11:53 PM.
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  #30  
Old 11-27-2008, 03:42 AM
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Re: TURBOs!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevin View Post
It's important because many things on these motors are just still unknowns simply because no one has done it. You need to know what CFM your motor makes now, what your target hp. is, and then if you decide turbo is the way to go, what CFM your turbo needs to be to get you to your desired horsepower. From that you can figure what amount of boost you need, you can determine what stock parts would survive and what would not. From there you start to get a pretty good idea of the costs that becomes involved and you can start to get your head around what is REALLY needed to make it happen.

You can never overplan something like this, and yes having a hp. goal in mind is a good place to start. If you just start "slapping" parts on/together it'll never be what you hoped for, and you'll wish you'd taken the time to do it right the first time.

As for myself, I am planning on a 250-ish whp. low pressure turbo system that will simply make the car feel like it looks!

And no, I'm really NOT trying to rain on your parade. I'm just saying take the time to figure out what you really want, learn and read a LOT, and you CAN it it right the first time. What you want to do really can be done, just not as easily as you'd originally hoped. But that's not a deterant either! It just means you need to know the ins and outs of something before modifying it!

Some good books to check out (or buy) concerning the matter are:

Maximum Boost by Corky Bell, TURBO by Jay K. Miller, How to Tune and Modify Engine Management Systems by Jeff Hartman, Turbocharging Performance Handbook by Jeff Hartman, and Superchargers Turbochargers and Nitrous Oxide (can't remember the author.) These are all books that I bought and have read from cover to cover more than once, and I don't regret it at all. I now have a MUCH better idea of what I want and more importantly how to get it! At least flip through ONE of these to get you going!

And finally good luck with whatever it is you decide to do. All of us here and waiting to see some SVX's put down some solid numbers! Go make us proud!
Corky is actually a really good friend of a few of my friends. I've even met him, really cool guy.

He has a book on superchargers as well, its a good read.

Maximum Boost is deffinetly a basic MUST NEED for anyone thinking of this, it'll give you a far greater idea as to what all is involved.




Dustin
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1992 Ebony LS-L w/191k miles Mods: a few and acouple more

1995 Brilliant Red L/AWD w/154k miles Mods: Stebro catback exhaust, K&N drop in filter, ECUtune ST1v5, 4.44, lots of JDM goodies

1992 Pearly LS-L w/154k miles Sold Mods: 4.11, rust

2008 DGM Legacy spec.B w/245k miles Mods: Cryotune Stage3, VF52, bushings galore, STi pink springs, Bilstein HDs


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