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  #1  
Old 09-17-2006, 06:11 PM
cdigerlando cdigerlando is offline
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Turbo Update

Well I don't think that my gasket is shot, yet. I did a major flush again of my motor and my radiator. I think that there was something blocking flow in the radiator. After doing a reverse flush all seems well. I'm running the 160 degree thermostat and my WRX radiator cap. 25% antifreeze is all I'll need if Florida.

Finally got the idle and fuel stabilized today. Also managed some warm up pulls today. The car pulls hard. My tires are crap so shifting to 2nd gear was a bit scary as my tail scooted around a bit. I'm still only running partial throttle and partial boost. Maybe about 2 or 3 psi. EGTs got a little high, just above 800 C, but nothing to worry about. Some minor knock events, but the knock sensor did its job and reduced the timing. I'm just about ready for the dyno. I would like to have a smoker vacuum leak check done first. I would also like to up the boost to about 5 psi and street tune a bit more. The car runs rich, but right now I'm satified, as it will keep me out of trouble with the detonation monster.

Thanks for everyones help diagnosing the different problems I have had. Hopefully I will get a finished product here real soon. It's been a long road.
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1992 Subaru SVX LS-L - Heavily modded turbo
2002 Subaru Impreza WRX- Turboxs stg3 & Susp. Mods
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  #2  
Old 09-21-2006, 07:20 AM
cdigerlando cdigerlando is offline
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Testing

I've been messing around with datalog files, and getting different advice from other folks who have tuned pre 02 NA aftermarket turbo imprezas. One thing I've learned is that I cannot run near the timing that LAN has run with his supercharger. I'm now looking for somewhere near Longwood (north of Orlando) to do some pulls and testing, without endangering anyone, or getting a ticket. I could take it to Bithlo for the test and tune, however, I would only be able to run 2 or 3 times. I may wait until I am a bit closer to do this. Anyone have any ideas?
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2002 Subaru Impreza WRX- Turboxs stg3 & Susp. Mods
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  #3  
Old 09-21-2006, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdigerlando
I've been messing around with datalog files, and getting different advice from other folks who have tuned pre 02 NA aftermarket turbo imprezas. One thing I've learned is that I cannot run near the timing that LAN has run with his supercharger. I'm now looking for somewhere near Longwood (north of Orlando) to do some pulls and testing, without endangering anyone, or getting a ticket. I could take it to Bithlo for the test and tune, however, I would only be able to run 2 or 3 times. I may wait until I am a bit closer to do this. Anyone have any ideas?
You want to send me some logs? I would take a look at them and see if i could make suggestions. I need rpm/afr/btdc advance/egt/injector drives
phil
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  #4  
Old 09-21-2006, 12:09 PM
cdigerlando cdigerlando is offline
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Logging

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phast SVX
You want to send me some logs? I would take a look at them and see if i could make suggestions. I need rpm/afr/btdc advance/egt/injector drives
phil
I can definitely send you logs. I do not log EGT. Suffice it to say I make sure that I go from about 400 or 450 to just a bit over 800 C from idle to redline. The AFR readings suck and are incorrect. They are logged from the narrow band, not the wideband. The wideband readings are very rich. Anywhere from 13 to 10. Everything else is there though. Advance, knock, RPM, MAF, MAT, Inj on times. If you like pm me your e-mail address. Preferably an address that will take large files. I will also e-mail you a link to download the tec2 program, which has a great way for you to look at the information rather quickly and efficiently. I've converted it to a spreadsheet but find these graphical displays to be useful. Any help you could offer would be greatly appreciated.

I have found it useful to check my MAF, RPM, and Advance numbers when a predetonation event is sensed. That way I can back down the advance from that point. I have been working (or winging) on a new map to try Saturday or Sunday. You may want to wait to see the result of that.
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  #5  
Old 09-21-2006, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdigerlando
I can definitely send you logs. I do not log EGT. Suffice it to say I make sure that I go from about 400 or 450 to just a bit over 800 C from idle to redline. The AFR readings suck and are incorrect. They are logged from the narrow band, not the wideband. The wideband readings are very rich. Anywhere from 13 to 10. Everything else is there though. Advance, knock, RPM, MAF, MAT, Inj on times. If you like pm me your e-mail address. Preferably an address that will take large files. I will also e-mail you a link to download the tec2 program, which has a great way for you to look at the information rather quickly and efficiently. I've converted it to a spreadsheet but find these graphical displays to be useful. Any help you could offer would be greatly appreciated.

I have found it useful to check my MAF, RPM, and Advance numbers when a predetonation event is sensed. That way I can back down the advance from that point. I have been working (or winging) on a new map to try Saturday or Sunday. You may want to wait to see the result of that.
Sounds good. Yea i did not mean a narrowband. A narrowband sensor does no more then tell the computer weather the car is running rich and lean, its noting more then that, its not a tuning tool.

Logging EGTs can tell us a lot about your ignition as long as we can verify your lambda is where it needs to be and when. Especially so on a high compression low boost application that is not intercooled such as yours.

I also am interested in the type of compressor you are using, as in trims and a/r as i have a feeling that if you infact cannot run as much timing as lan can it has much to do with some low density charges, remember reguardless of the charge temp since you are running off the gate your turbo will make the same amount of manifold pressure fairly consistnatly.

I think the next step will be temp probes before and after the turbo, if i can get your precharge and charge temps along with ambiant temps i can give you a good picture of what is going on (find the efficency of the compressor and what is caughing it up ) . MAF based systems drawing air before the turbo can sometimes have problems since the temp is a function of the overall voltage required to heat the sensor filament. speed density system often reference at the throttle body, your referencing preboost, precompression, and preheat. Whereass the total air entering the engine is still constant the amount of advance may be too high, and knock beiing detected will cause a pull obviously.

I dont have a ton of TEC experience but i do have experience with hondata, chrome and AEM. Also have you tried removing the air filter for a run or two? If your aif filter is posing a restriction it can increase charge temps since the compressor is strained to meet the same pressure ratio but work against gravity to do so, creating low density pressure.

Anyways my email is phillip.gantz@gmail.com

phil
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Last edited by Phast SVX; 09-21-2006 at 01:13 PM.
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  #6  
Old 09-22-2006, 04:17 PM
cdigerlando cdigerlando is offline
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Logging and Stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phast SVX
Sounds good. Yea i did not mean a narrowband. A narrowband sensor does no more then tell the computer weather the car is running rich and lean, its noting more then that, its not a tuning tool.

Logging EGTs can tell us a lot about your ignition as long as we can verify your lambda is where it needs to be and when. Especially so on a high compression low boost application that is not intercooled such as yours.

I also am interested in the type of compressor you are using, as in trims and a/r as i have a feeling that if you infact cannot run as much timing as lan can it has much to do with some low density charges, remember reguardless of the charge temp since you are running off the gate your turbo will make the same amount of manifold pressure fairly consistnatly.

I think the next step will be temp probes before and after the turbo, if i can get your precharge and charge temps along with ambiant temps i can give you a good picture of what is going on (find the efficency of the compressor and what is caughing it up ) . MAF based systems drawing air before the turbo can sometimes have problems since the temp is a function of the overall voltage required to heat the sensor filament. speed density system often reference at the throttle body, your referencing preboost, precompression, and preheat. Whereass the total air entering the engine is still constant the amount of advance may be too high, and knock beiing detected will cause a pull obviously.

I dont have a ton of TEC experience but i do have experience with hondata, chrome and AEM. Also have you tried removing the air filter for a run or two? If your aif filter is posing a restriction it can increase charge temps since the compressor is strained to meet the same pressure ratio but work against gravity to do so, creating low density pressure.

Anyways my email is phillip.gantz@gmail.com

phil

I'm investigating ways to bring my A/F readings into my Tec II. The nice thing about the tec 2 is I can change the calibration curve to be linear. Problem is it must be between 1 and 0 volts. A/F outputs on a wideband are typically 1-2 volts. There are output options on the A/F unit, that allow it to be calibrated similar to a narrowband (kind of defeats the purpose). But it might work for some basic tuning. Then I could throw the narrow band back in, recalibrate it, and just set my low MAP settings to run fairly lean. A/F feedback control points can be reset to shut off above a certain RPM, and it is recommended to do this, as the A/F is not that well controled.

My EGT has a logging output wire. I would just need to figure out how to wire it into the Tec. I don't think that I can do that, but I'll check. I could switch something like the coolant sensor, which doesn't do much other than change enrichements based on if the engine is cold or not. This could perhaps be disabled? Like I said though, I basically make sure that the EGT is not going much above 800 C at redline. If it starts to go to high, its time to add more timing. If I get detonation....pull timing.

I do not have the turbo info in front of me. I'm going to have to dig for that. I wrote it all down. it is a T4/T3 hybrid. I was having overboost issues before. I have since ported the wastegate. I am not having them anymore. I'm also not running out of fuel and "choking" the engine. Harvey swore it was a problem with my upipe. I think we can eliminate upipe interfereance at this point. No problems there.

I am only running about 3 psi of boost now for testing. Starting out at idle I am running at about 54 C. At 3 psi I run about 59 C. That's not too bad. Don't forget I am doing water injection over 1 atmosphere. Ambient temps are probably in the low to mid 90 F. You have a very good point about the intake piping. BTW in case you didn't know, this is a MAP based system that does not use a MAF. I could disconnect the intake piping and connect my cone filter very close to the turbo. Right now I am running pipe as a cold air intake into the turbo. The additional strain on the turbo may cause higher temps. So basically the additional pipe may not be worth it. I may take your advice and give that a try. See if the underhood temps are affecting my ambient more than the additional piping.

I'll shoot you some files by the end of the weekend.

Thanks for the chats.

Take Care

Chuck D.
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  #7  
Old 09-22-2006, 10:01 PM
oab_au oab_au is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdigerlando
,,,,,,,,,


,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I'm also not running out of fuel and "choking" the engine. Harvey swore it was a problem with my upipe. I think we can eliminate upipe interfereance at this point. No problems there. I am only running about 3 psi of boost now for testing.


Take Care

Chuck D.
What pressure were you running back then?

Harvey.
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  #8  
Old 09-23-2006, 06:14 AM
cdigerlando cdigerlando is offline
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About 5 psi give or take because I could not control boost. Could it have possibly been 260 cc/min injectors????
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  #9  
Old 09-23-2006, 11:20 AM
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Ya assuming you have a bosch o2 based uego system its 0-5 volts. There really is no way to translate it into a 0-1 volt reading like you said it would defeat the purpose. I had read maf somewhere thats why i had though u retained the maf.

What kind of filter are u running? Have you tried running without the filter to see if that helped? many air filters are big restrictions Well take care and ill talk to you soon.


phil
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  #10  
Old 09-23-2006, 05:43 PM
cdigerlando cdigerlando is offline
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Multiple runs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phast SVX
Ya assuming you have a bosch o2 based uego system its 0-5 volts. There really is no way to translate it into a 0-1 volt reading like you said it would defeat the purpose. I had read maf somewhere thats why i had though u retained the maf.

What kind of filter are u running? Have you tried running without the filter to see if that helped? many air filters are big restrictions Well take care and ill talk to you soon.


phil
I still have the MAF connected but it doesn't do anything. I've disconnected it electrically. Eventually I will remove it all together. Didn't try removing the filter alltogether yet. I may not (I'm paranoid). What I might do is connect it to the turbo. I would like to see if the cold air system is really worth it. I don't think I'm having trouble with the filter. If I did I would see a drop in boost. It is a K&N type cone filter.

I did some runs today. I'm bouncing between too much advance and not enough. I'm starting to think that my knock sensor is set too sensitive. I may set it very high and see how I do. I feel like a test pilot at this point. At least I don't have to land! My EGTs got as high as 900C. Not good.

The car runs great now in cruise mode, although I think I need to add some more timing down low as my cruising EGTs get kind of high. It may be that LAN is right and the car does like lots of timing. I may just need to set the detonation sensors higher and deal with the noise. I wish I could check what the stock noise was like with this sensor, before getting into this. Anyone got a stock car I could try? Hopefully I can get some more runs in tomorrow.

Take Care

Chuck
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Last edited by cdigerlando; 09-25-2006 at 01:37 PM.
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  #11  
Old 09-25-2006, 02:04 PM
cdigerlando cdigerlando is offline
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Conclusions?

Wasn't able to get any more runs in yesterday, but I think I have figured out a few things regarding my setup.

For one thing, I believe the extra sensing on the engine has allowed me to identify one of the issues I was having before, with the engine bogging at high RPM. This seemed like the same event I experienced at super high EGTs. I was running about 5 psi this time.

This leads me to believe that the events I am seeing on the knock sensor may just be valve noise due to high rpm and may not actually constitute predetonation events. LAN's incredibly high timing may be correct afterall. The engine needs more timing to keep from burning up. I am going to live more dangerously, raise the timing up and knock sensor sensitivty down.

There are a few more modifications that I would like to do before taking the car to a Dyno. For one thing, I would like to move my battery and my Tec to allow for FMIC piping to be installed. This will require some rewireing. While I'm at it I would like to fab up a very comprehensive engine grounding system. I may go ahead and purchase an aftermarket PWR radiator to prevent overheating. I don't want to be stopped dead on a dyno because of a radiator problem. Prior to dynoing I would like to install the FMIC and change to an external wastegate and 3" exhaust to my existing dual magnaflow exhaust. I think that I will be ready to dyno tune at that point, with a setup that I can live with for a while.

Like I said before, the car runs super great at low load. Very drivable. No stalling etc. The Level 10 tranny shifts supurbly if not a little shocking. I purchased some new tires this weekend for her. Falken Z512 V-rated. I still run stock rims if you can believe it. Feels really good with the Koni/GC setup (which is finally broken in). Its nice to drive the SVX again. Anyone want a WRX?
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Old 10-01-2006, 09:57 PM
cdigerlando cdigerlando is offline
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Update

Well this weekend I bought a bunch of wire and gold plated connectors for the battery, main power to the starter, starter ground, and I'm building a grounding kit. I had to move my battery to be able to fit intercooler piping through the drivers side fender. I don't like splicing #4 wire, so I'm replacing all the stock wire. I'm also moving my engine mangement to just under the opening, so I can get at it easier. Ordered a PWR radiator. Ordered hoses and and some JDM light stuff, since they are a bit messed up. Going to order a sperco front mount real soon. I'm toying with the idea of buying a universal kit and piping it myself. We'll see.

Still haven't gotten a response in the technical section as to what might be wrong with my Tach. Any ideas?
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