Lest we forget...

[wasions]

Originally posted by LarryIII
Why can't we all learn to live together and get along with one another.

I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but there's Ego, Lust, Envy, Greed, Covetousness, etc., etc. We all have these traits to one degree or another. For some, due to a combination of environment and propensity to act on them, they're harder to control.

Financially it would be cheaper in the long run if we could all learn to 'live and let live'.

Financially, and in every other way.

If we did not need to spend so much money on weaponry maybe we could feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and heal the sick.

There is coming a day . . .

Sound Familiar ?

Way.

Just my 2 cents.

And good sense it is. Now go and teach the rest of the world.

[wasions]

Originally posted by Mr. Pockets


Lwin, this is really the only sentence I have a problem with in your post. The rest is your personal, first-hand experience - which is far more than I have.

In this country we have free speech. Does the government meddle with things a little? Yeah - Black Hawk Down and Behind Enemy Lines were pushed to the screen by the feds. But 'the media' does not 'want' us to see anything but what WE want to see. As long as we pay attention, they keep showing us what we have already watched. That's not to say that innovation doesn't happen.

In terms of news coverage, this 'feed us what we want' survivalist mentality actually helps us see as much of the truth as possible. Every network wants the exclusive story and none of them want to be caught with their pants down, missing details others have picked up.

Nick,

I can give you links to many news stories - very important news stories - that you're not likely to hear in the 'popular' media. News is controlled - even suppressed - by the media elite. (Gad! Now I'm sounding like Rush!) They do have an agenda. Those who don't see it, aren't looking.

Having met you, I feel reasonably sure that you're an (extremely) intelligent person, and probably a reader. Here's a couple of suggestions:

Endgame: The Betrayal and Fall of Srebenica, Europe's Worst Massacre Since World War II, by David Rohde

Ninety Minutes at Entebbe, (I forget the author's name.) (Don't bother with the movie.)

Requiem for the Sudan - War, Drought, & Disaster Relief on the Nile, J. Millard Burr and Robert O. Collins

Crisis at Tian-anmen - Reform and Reality in Modern China, Yi Mu and Mark V. Thompson

The root of terrorism is almost always religious persecution. Whether it's Muslim on Jewish/Christian (Israel, America), Jewish on Muslim (Israel), Christian on Christian (Ireland), Muslim on Christian (Sudan), Aetheist on Christian (China), Hindu on Christian (Tibet, India), the list goes on and on. While the story may be covered by the media, generally it's religious aspect is glossed over or not even mentioned. Somehow it seems, to acknowledge that people are inherently religious is not something that they want us to know.

[Seraph]

Originally posted by Mr. Pockets


Lwin, this is really the only sentence I have a problem with in your post. The rest is your personal, first-hand experience - which is far more than I have.

In this country we have free speech.

Freedom of speech is there. I am not saying it is not. Which is a good thing.

On the other hand, when it comes to world news, has american media(the ones that americans see daily) ever once cover a brutal war in yugoslavia? What about that rocket attack in westbank where you see the rocket enter the house barely missing a kid on the entrance? Theywill not show that since it was too intense or too far from homeland to care about. How about the details of operation desert fox and the fact that US and British fighters daily bomb Iraq on daily basis till today? Funny thing is I have seen those on BBC and american owned CNN International. Where can i see those brutal images? MSNBC? ABC news? Let's put the kids to bed first -- news at 11? I have been asking people here and CNN why I can't get the CNN international in the US and no one has answered that yet.

It is my personal opinion that American media in general is only concerned about what is happening in the US mainland only cover tips of the international news.

It is also my personal believe that the reason why a ton of people in the US are in shock of the 9-11 situation is because of the fact that they are mainly tuned into the local media and not the international media. People get a false security that bad things are far away and let their guard down.

The only thing I have seen american media did that was big in some sense recently was to tell the whole country about the enron case, or who the president was sleeping with. Who cares? that's his personal life. Human interest story that most international media would use as a side story. Did you know that during the French president's funeral, his wife was there. So was his mistress. The french media did not go around pointing fingers saying he slept with her.

What I am saying is we need to be shown a bigger picture. America is big but there are a lot of other stuff happening in the rest of the world too that people should take note about and prepare themselves for.

Lwin

[Mr. Pockets]

Lwin, maybe I didn't explain myself thoroughly.I don't disagree with you - we definitely need to be shown a bigger picture. But the 'American Media' isn't covering anything up due to some agenda. They're showing us what we want to see.

"The only thing I have seen american media did that was big in some sense recently was to tell the whole country about the enron case, or who the president was sleeping with. Who cares? "

WE DO. I'm not saying you and me specifically, but people eat that stuff up, and that's why it gets covered. They show us what we want to see. If nobody cared, like you suggest, those stories would go away. Let's have an example.

Ever since the Taliban started rolling over Afghanistan, I read every news story to come out of there. I was interested. But was it covered thoroughly? No. For years, most of this country (except for us news junkies) knew nothing of the situation. I doubt, pre-September 11, more than 10% of this country's population could even tell you who the Taliban were.

Then we get attacked, and the major suspects are harbored by the Taliban. Suddenly, every network is doing story after story about Afghanistan, the Taliban, al Qaeda, etc. Why? Because something noteworthy happened and we wanted to know more about it.

Back to this issue:

"It is also my personal believe that the reason why a ton of people in the US are in shock of the 9-11 situation is because of the fact that they are mainly tuned into the local media and not the international media. People get a false security that bad things are far away and let their guard down. "

You're absolutely right. But that false sense of security and apathy about the rest of the world come from the people - not 'the media.' If there was a story happening somewhere else in the world that people wanted to know about, the networks which tried to 'suppress' it would get killed in the ratings by the ones that covered it. There is simply too much competition amongst networks for them to form some sort of conspiracy to suppress stories.

[Mr. Pockets]

Originally posted by wasions


Nick,

I can give you links to many news stories - very important news stories - that you're not likely to hear in the 'popular' media. News is controlled - even suppressed - by the media elite. (Gad! Now I'm sounding like Rush!) They do have an agenda. Those who don't see it, aren't looking.

Having met you, I feel reasonably sure that you're an (extremely) intelligent person, and probably a reader. Here's a couple of suggestions:

Endgame: The Betrayal and Fall of Srebenica, Europe's Worst Massacre Since World War II, by David Rohde

Ninety Minutes at Entebbe, (I forget the author's name.) (Don't bother with the movie.)

Requiem for the Sudan - War, Drought, & Disaster Relief on the Nile, J. Millard Burr and Robert O. Collins

Crisis at Tian-anmen - Reform and Reality in Modern China, Yi Mu and Mark V. Thompson

The root of terrorism is almost always religious persecution. Whether it's Muslim on Jewish/Christian (Israel, America), Jewish on Muslim (Israel), Christian on Christian (Ireland), Muslim on Christian (Sudan), Aetheist on Christian (China), Hindu on Christian (Tibet, India), the list goes on and on. While the story may be covered by the media, generally it's religious aspect is glossed over or not even mentioned. Somehow it seems, to acknowledge that people are inherently religious is not something that they want us to know.

"They do have an agenda. Those who don't see it, aren't looking."

Saying that sort of thing suggests paranoia. Show me evidence of a media conspiracy. I'll say the same thing to you that I did Lwin:

There is simply too much competition amongst our capitalist, free media for any sort of conspiracy to work. What motivation do you think is behind such a conspiracy? Who is really in control? What do they want? Where's your supporting evidence?

"Here's a couple of suggestions: "

Why do you recommend those titles?

"Having met you, I feel reasonably sure that you're an (extremely) intelligent person..."

Hey thanks - that's mighty kind of you.

[Mr. Pockets]

Lwin and Steve, I have a question for you.

Does this 'media conspiracy' also extend into entertainment media? More specifically, do companies which produce media specifically for entertainment also have an agenda, and if so, what is that agenda?

[Ron Mummert]

THE FACTS:

1. Ever increasing demands upon an ever decreasing planet.
2. Ever increasing population within a finite geography.
3. "My God's better'n your God".
4. "Civilized" people will shoot each other over a parking place.
5. Watching Britney is more pleasurable than reading history.
6. Greed.

Ron.

[Mr. Pockets]

Originally posted by Ron Mummert
THE FACTS:

1. Ever increasing demands upon an ever decreasing planet.
2. Ever increasing population within a finite geography.
3. "My God's better'n your God".
4. "Civilized" people will shoot each other over a parking place.
5. Watching Britney is more pleasurable than reading history.
6. Greed.

Ron.

I have to agree with five. Bravo!

[wasions]

Originally posted by Ron Mummert
THE FACTS:

1. Ever increasing demands upon an ever decreasing planet.
2. Ever increasing population within a finite geography.
3. "My God's better'n your God".
4. "Civilized" people will shoot each other over a parking place.
5. Watching Britney is more pleasurable than reading history.
6. Greed.

Ron.

Well put.

[svxistentialist]

Brilliant Ron.

Gimme five bro'

I'm a child of the Sixties, but Peace and Love and Flower Power don't really work on a macroeconomic level. People are too diverse for that.

Love and understanding does it every time in a personal relationship. Between tribes and international and multicultural communities, I strongly believe understanding and mutual respect must come to the fore before there is accommodation. And peace.

We must cope with this:



and then some.
We can do it. Understand people, don't demonise them.

Joe

[SHISVX]

Originally posted by Seraphim


I am going to bite the bullet on this one.

The situation is scary. Yes. I guess it all depends on what you see and what you are all used to seeing and what media wants you to see. I never said this is not wrong. This is! If you want to look at something scary, people should focus the attention to what was happening in Kosovo, and the Balkans, stuff in Africa, some parts of Asia, Middle East. Those are really scary compare to what happened in 9/11 and the sad thing is some of those places are still facing the same issues till today. It is a scary world out there!

A person is smart but people are dumb. As long as there are people, unfortunately, things like this will keep happening. People are just way too greedy for their own good and people have been fighting for different issues since the dawn of time.

I lived in the middle east. I have visited Gaza, Ramala, and all those places much much worse IMHO than ground zero. My parents are still there and my dad was there in Gaza last week. Everytime I get a phone call from home, I am always afraid to pick up. You don't really know scary and fear till you have that feeling constantly. Now that is fear.

Saddened: I am saddened and much more than that pissed about what happened on 9/11 as well as what happens daily at different places all around the world. A lot of you guys are seeing this as a first time and feeling this for the first time at least it's a lot closer to many of us. People see stuff in the news and movies all the time. And the thing is they are not the same.

About two years ago, I was watching a movie called "welcome to Sarajevo." I thought it was just an OK movie. About three weeks later, I got called in and was told that I had to go to Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia, and Albania to setup a couple of servers for different ministries, NGOs and relief organizations. In sarajevo, I made a mistake of walking over the hill that was in the end of that movie and everything just sank in. In Kosovo and Albania, I saw the refugees, some babies still feeding breast milk, in the cold and that really sank in deep. Those are the images that will never leave my memory for the rest of my life. Those are sad stories.

This is how I overcome this kind of situation. I say to myself that this is not the only place that this kind of terrorism stuck. There are a lot more places that are far worse than when I am at. Instead of feeling sad, sorry, sacred, fearful, I should be happy that things are going better now where I am. I know it all sounds bad but it helps. Human nature I guess -- or my holier than thou attitute.

But we all should move on. Pray for those that suffered not just here in the US but all over the world because of some dumb a$$ or the other (and I swear some of those guys were dropped on their heads multiple times when they were kids). Pray for the families that remained because their lives are changed forever but do not be scared and be afraid. Things like this will happen as long as we have idiots living amongst us. If we move on and show them that we recovered and their hit did not bother us but made us stronger, they will slowly fade away. By showing these bastards that what they did bothered us, it gives them pleasure. Don't give them the pleasure!!!

Lwin

a little clarification on my statement. what is scarey to me is that a human being actually believes that this action was a good thing. i don't understand, i guess, because i don't follow the same religion. i have my views and beliefs and i think the whole thing was just stupid. many innocent lives were lost and for what, so somebody can prove that they can take lives. gee, like everyone on the planet does not have the power to do the same thing themselves. i don't see a point or reason behind this action.

i understand that things have happened in other countries. look at WWII. hitler was a monster. he was a sick man who took pleasure in hurting others. but still, i see no point for all of his bulls***. why can't people just live their own lives. why prove a point by hurting others, you are just going to get yours in the end. i guess some people want to die as something whether that something is good or bad. everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame. it is part of the human nature to be greedy. greedy for power. a lot of power is accomplished through fear. and if the only way an under-educated moron can get their fame is through fear, well i feel sorry for them.

this action has brought america closer then ever. and we are not going to ever bow down to some power hungry a**hole.

Kelli

[Seraph]

<< Kelli : we are not going to ever bow down to some power hungry a**hole. >>

That's good.


<<Ron :3. "My God's better'n your God". >>

Isn't that the same god? I am buddhist so I have buddha. I am aganostic. But I thought the people that are fighting have the same god at the end of the day --Jews, Muslims, and Christians.


but apart from that, I agree with you.


<<Steve: endgame, Ninety Minutes at Entebbe >>

I read those two books so far. I read 90 minute in high school when I was in jordan. Nice books.

------------

I just want to say something to clear things up:
a. poop happens -- we have to get over it or we will be living in poop. Got to clean up and move on. I just don't think people are moving on. They are still dewlling to the thoughts that happened six months ago. If people in israel moans about every sucide bomb attack, that country would be in rubbles.

b. people (not a person) should educate themselves more on what's happening in the planet that they live on. Not just on your backyard. NIMBY has worked so far but today, people are launching poop from half way around the world.

c. america IMHO has enough problems as a country internally to go involve itself in too many international incidents. People like heroes but not nosey guys with big bombs. IMHO, that is the reason why more idiots are aiming their poop in our (notice our) backyard.

d. I think i have said enough to cause more argument for a while so I I am going to rest for a bit.


Lwin

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by Seraphim
<< Kelli : we are not going to ever bow down to some power hungry a**hole. >>

That's good.


<<Ron :3. "My God's better'n your God". >>

Isn't that the same god? I am buddhist so I have buddha. I am aganostic. But I thought the people that are fighting have the same god at the end of the day --Jews, Muslims, and Christians.


but apart from that, I agree with you.


<<Steve: endgame, Ninety Minutes at Entebbe >>

I read those two books so far. I read 90 minute in high school when I was in jordan. Nice books.

------------

I just want to say something to clear things up:
a. poop happens -- we have to get over it or we will be living in poop. Got to clean up and move on. I just don't think people are moving on. They are still dewlling to the thoughts that happened six months ago. If people in israel moans about every sucide bomb attack, that country would be in rubbles.

b. people (not a person) should educate themselves more on what's happening in the planet that they live on. Not just on your backyard. NIMBY has worked so far but today, people are launching poop from half way around the world.

c. america IMHO has enough problems as a country internally to go involve itself in too many international incidents. People like heroes but not nosey guys with big bombs. IMHO, that is the reason why more idiots are aiming their poop in our (notice our) backyard.

d. I think i have said enough to cause more argument for a while so I I am going to rest for a bit.


Lwin

I could get started, but I won't. There isn't enough bandwidth.

I'd just want to say a couple of things in response to this last group of statements: First of all, I just want other people to keep their poop in their own back yards. Don't send your dogs to poop in mine. And, when YOUR dogs poop in your back yard, if you don't want me there, don't call me to come clean it up, and, if I do, don't sic your dog on me for coming over to do what you asked me to. And, finally, I don't want to worry about the dandelions in your back yard. I have my own dandelions to worry about. Sure, I'm concerned about your dandelions -- I know they're there, but, that shouldn't affect me unless your dandelions blow into my back yard. That's when I have to weed my back yard and then, call you to ask you to weed yours, so they don't blow into mine. That's all I'm going to say.

[Mr. Pockets]

Originally posted by Aredubjay




I could get started, but I won't. There isn't enough bandwidth.

I'd just want to say a couple of things in response to this last group of statements: First of all, I just want other people to keep their poop in their own back yards. Don't send your dogs to poop in mine. And, when YOUR dogs poop in your back yard, if you don't want me there, don't call me to come clean it up, and, if I do, don't sic your dog on me for coming over to do what you asked me to. And, finally, I don't want to worry about the dandelions in your back yard. I have my own dandelions to worry about. Sure, I'm concerned about your dandelions -- I know they're there, but, that shouldn't affect me unless your dandelions blow into my back yard. That's when I have to weed my back yard and then, call you to ask you to weed yours, so they don't blow into mine. That's all I'm going to say.

Oh, that's just brilliant. I love it.

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by Mr. Pockets


Oh, that's just brilliant. I love it.

Nick, I thought of you every time I used the word, "poop." I knew you'd appreciate it.