The 10 year airbag "check".

Ron Mummert · #1 02-06-2002, 07:22 PM

As some of you already know, page 2-33 of the owner's manual states that the car should have the airbag uh... "checked", by an AUTHORIZED Suby dealer ten years after manufacture date. Since all '92s are now due for this steering column rectal exam, or whatever is done to proclaim "SAFE", has anyone actually done it? My vision of this procedure is, 1. Technician proclaims bag is probably dust (designed this way), please pay 2K for new bag. 2. Technician drives your car into wall at 5mph. Bag deploys. Bag OK - Now you need a new one - 2K please, & the bumper will be another grand. "Have a nice day".
Any advise?
Gracias, Ron.

Seraph · #2 02-06-2002, 07:30 PM

This is a good idea guys

Lwin

Beav · #3 02-06-2002, 07:41 PM

Air bags were kind of in their infancy then and the OEMs didn't have a clue what to expect. They were trying to exercise a little CYA when they included that passage in the manual. Since those days the air bag and its supporting technology has proven extremely reliable.

If the OEM has a program in place for checking the system I would suppose that the tech would 'link-up' with the car's computer, do a quick scan, make sure the sensors are still firmly attached in their correct positons and make sure that there actually is an air bag under the sterring wheel cover (some cheesy body shops will use expandable foam, etc. to support an empty steering wheel cover after a car has been in a deployment type accident.) I've heard some dealers charge for the service, some do it gratis for the goodwill.

Beav

#4 02-07-2002, 06:04 AM

A while back when I actually still had an SVX I called and the Subie dealer said they check the fuses and relays and whatever else. I think they said they do hook it up and check the computer but the service was only $35 out here in Calif.

Ciao
Wayne

svx_commuter · #5 02-07-2002, 06:50 PM

What is the dealer going to check that the SVX computer dosen't check?

The air bag check is on the cars computer, right?

Beav · #6 02-07-2002, 07:15 PM

Only certain faults are logged into a computer's memory. Some faults are 'hard' faults and logged, some are intermittent and not necessarily logged and others are outright unseen by the computer. Some computers don't turn on warning light(s) for all faults. It all depends on the hardware, software and good luck.

Beav

#7 02-11-2002, 11:42 AM

i am anti air bag big time. first, it's unnecessary if you wear a shoulder belt. my recollection was that the govt. (YOUR pal) manadted that every car have self activting upper torso restraint. so, some cars don't have bags, but have the auto shoulder belt. subaru installed both. then the maunfacturers all went to air bags (ever have to replace one afer an accident? i have, add a grand to the repair bill). then no need for the automatic shoulder belts. bottom line is that the govt. studies obviously showed there was little difference between a shoulder belt and the air bag. then there's the safty factor for short or younger passangers/drivers. and finally, ever been in an accident in which the air bag deployed thus blocking your vision and ability to see where to possibly steer the car? my pal's daughter was, she ended up in a worse situation becuase she could not see to avoid a tree. imho, the public has been brain washed into believing in these things. now, side impact bags, that's a differnt story.

Seraph · #8 02-11-2002, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by calmone
i am anti air bag big time. first, it's unnecessary if you wear a shoulder belt. my recollection was that the govt. (YOUR pal) manadted that every car have self activting upper torso restraint. so, some cars don't have bags, but have the auto shoulder belt. subaru installed both. then the maunfacturers all went to air bags (ever have to replace one afer an accident? i have, add a grand to the repair bill). then no need for the automatic shoulder belts. bottom line is that the govt. studies obviously showed there was little difference between a shoulder belt and the air bag. then there's the safty factor for short or younger passangers/drivers. and finally, ever been in an accident in which the air bag deployed thus blocking your vision and ability to see where to possibly steer the car? my pal's daughter was, she ended up in a worse situation becuase she could not see to avoid a tree. imho, the public has been brain washed into believing in these things. now, side impact bags, that's a differnt story.

I too have been in a accident where both airbags deployed and IMHO, they save lives. The bags did not deployed till my car hit the other car infront at around 30mph. Needless to say I walked out without any form of harm what soever.

How on earth are you going to steer after the airbag deploys since you already hit something by then, If an airbag deploys before hitting something, it is not the fault of the airbag, it's the guys who installed it or the person behind the wheel was lying. I have seen too many airbag tests preformed by many european car makers and they are a much needed items in a fast moving world today.

Lwin

mohrds · #9 02-11-2002, 12:54 PM

I much prefer the safety restraints from the old Sly Stallone movie where the car instantly fills with expanding foam...

My take on Airbags?

First let me remind everyone that I was working in an auto body shop when these things hit the streets so I saw first generation side effects.

Permanent hearing damage, windows blowing out from the pressure, failure to go off when someone runs straight into a tree, etc.

I think they are an OK idea, I still prefer to wear my lap and shoulder belt.

Why on earth don't the manufacturers make a 5 point harness that is as easy to use as a lap belt?

That's the way to go.

The airbag was a reaction to a problem.
Problem: people don't wear seatbelts. Solution: make auto shoulder belts.
Problem: people wear auto shoulder belt, but don't fasten lap belt, slide down seat in accident and decapitate themselves in an accident. Solution: Airbags.

Airbags: Forced into the market before they were ready. It took almost 10 additional years before they worked most of the bugs out. People died at the hands of airbags during this "Field Test"

No offense to anyone that's lost someone. I've lost some very close friends to auto accidents. But come on! How much hand holding should the government force auto makers to do?

You don't want to protect yourself? Maybe you shouldn't stay around long enough to pollute the gene pool.

Side Airbags: I agree that side airbags are a great supplement. They are smaller, need less explosives and protect you in the direction that your seatbelt doesn't. They are designed to help your seat belt, not to replace your seat belt like the front air bags were.

Doug (climbing into his flame suit)

Beav · #10 02-11-2002, 03:48 PM

My take is that the averages pan in favor of them. There are always going to be exceptions. Like anything else, they won't work properly if not used properly. I see so many people crammed up against the wheel while driving that they couldn't make a quick maneuver if their life depended on it. Yet I'd guess that they'd be the first to ***** about being whammed by an air bag. Duh.

I can see the use of an air bag and a shoulder belt. The belt keeps the torso back, the bag keeps your face away from the wheel and windshield. If you've been in a wreck and suffered severe whiplash (not the "I can't turn my head this way -> stuff but the real thing) you would appreciate what the bag can do for you.

I can appreciate not being saved from myself by the gov't. at every turn, however I can also appreciate reduced insurance premiums because fewer lazy dumbasses are being seriously injured. I think hearing problems, a few scars, etc. are a small trade-off for a life. At the risk of sounding crass and callous, there's always a learning curve with any new technology.

*wonders if Doug has another suit I could borrow*

Beav

mohrds · #11 02-11-2002, 05:29 PM

<<*wonders if Doug has another suit I could borrow*>>

You can use mine. it appears I'm not going to need it.

I see your point about learning curves, I would have just preferred to let Volvo and other saftey inovators R&D it before the US makers did were forced to put in what they had available.

Doug

vkykam · #12 02-11-2002, 05:55 PM

The reason your government removed the seatbelt restrictions were either the auto industry lobbied, or they were just as annoying as hell and cut into your neck.

Really though, the stats (this from memory, not very accurate, but you'll get the idea) that shows the effectiveness of the safety restraints from a high speed collision are like this:

air bag only: 11%
seatbelt only (shoulder and lap): 41%
seatbelt and frontal air bag: 45%

Unfortunately, I don't know where I can get a printed copy of it, but I vividly remember seeing the stats.

Remember, folks, that the lap belt is just as important, it keeps you from submarining below the shoulder belt and turning your knees and/or other body parts into jelly.

My 1.3 cents worth.

VK

Quote:

Originally posted by calmone
i am anti air bag big time. first, it's unnecessary if you wear a shoulder belt. my recollection was that the govt. (YOUR pal) manadted that every car have self activting upper torso restraint. so, some cars don't have bags, but have the auto shoulder belt. subaru installed both. then the maunfacturers all went to air bags (ever have to replace one afer an accident? i have, add a grand to the repair bill). then no need for the automatic shoulder belts. bottom line is that the govt. studies obviously showed there was little difference between a shoulder belt and the air bag. then there's the safty factor for short or younger passangers/drivers. and finally, ever been in an accident in which the air bag deployed thus blocking your vision and ability to see where to possibly steer the car? my pal's daughter was, she ended up in a worse situation becuase she could not see to avoid a tree. imho, the public has been brain washed into believing in these things. now, side impact bags, that's a differnt story.

Beav · #13 02-11-2002, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mohrds
<<*wonders if Doug has another suit I could borrow*>>

You can use mine. it appears I'm not going to need it.

I see your point about learning curves, I would have just preferred to let Volvo and other saftey inovators R&D it before the US makers did were forced to put in what they had available.

Doug

It always hurts to see the price. However, not to pick nits but a good ol' US auto designer invented the airbag in the 50's. Detroit beancounters and upper management delayed its debut. Heck, seatbelts and padded dashboards weren't even required back then.

IMHO the only safety Volvo brought to the table was a half empty steel shoebox with semi-decent brakes. Basically they invented an oversized crush zone due to lack of content under the hood.

Beav

Ron Mummert · #14 02-11-2002, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beav

It always hurts to see the price. However, not to pick nits but a good ol' US auto designer invented the airbag in the 50's. Detroit beancounters and upper management delayed its debut. Heck, seatbelts and padded dashboards weren't even required back then.

IMHO the only safety Volvo brought to the table was a half empty steel shoebox with semi-decent brakes. Basically they invented an oversized crush zone due to lack of content under the hood.

Beav

I may be wrong on this, but the first mention of "safety" that I can remember from Detroit, was by Ford in '56, when a "Deep dish" steering wheel & a vaguely padded dash were standard on the Fairlane.
I also "think" prior to Ford, Nash & Hudson talked safety, but you can see how well safety "sold" to the masses. Air bags in the '50s? Maybe invented, but wasn't the first one offered as an option in the mid '70s Caprice? They must have sold one or two dozen.
Ron.

Beav · #15 02-11-2002, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ron Mummert

I may be wrong on this, but the first mention of "safety" that I can remember from Detroit, was by Ford in '56, when a "Deep dish" steering wheel & a vaguely padded dash were standard on the Fairlane.
I also "think" prior to Ford, Nash & Hudson talked safety, but you can see how well safety "sold" to the masses. Air bags in the '50s? Maybe invented, but wasn't the first one offered as an option in the mid '70s Caprice? They must have sold one or two dozen.
Ron.

Key words: invented, delayed, required

Don't forget Tucker and safety. Ditto for Malcolm Bricklin and his SV-1 (safety vehicle 1 - hence the absence of an ashtray, a real safety issue.)

Chevy/GM probably would have sold more but we'll never know as they only supplied x-number of them to the public, and didn't exactly advertise the fact that they were available. Remember, Detroit won't introduce safety on its own merits. They kinda leak it out, let someone like Nader fight for its introduction. That way if it blows up in their face they can blame it on the gov't. making them rush it to market before it was matured, thus avoiding expensive litigation.

Beav