Career, and other musings...

thumper_svx · #1 07-10-2003, 04:47 PM

Is it just me or does working for someone else get really old after a while?

Do all truly successful people work for themselves... and if so why don't more people do it?

To fill all in on WHY I'm asking these questions; my post a few weeks ago regarding my job situation generated some email, a couple of responses... and some thoughtful conversation with members of this fine club. While not SVX related, I like to think we're all connected somehow by our love of this odd little car.

Anyway, I digress. After a really rough couple of weeks, I spent all of last night awake trying to think about what to do next... and finally this morning I hit upon what to do; quit.

Now, this isn't TOTALLY set in stone... this morning I went to work and requested a leave of absence. Yup... unpaid. Thankfully I've got enough reserves to get me through the next 45 days or so if I stretch it, but decided to take two weeks to really decide what I'm going to do next. Using my networking skills, I went out today and had lunch with an old friend, dropped in on another old friend and talked business... then dropped in on a third old friend who I've not spoken to in a long time who echoed what my wife's told me for years; "If you decide to go into business for yourself, with your personality and abilities you WILL succeed". The two other people I saw today also echoed that sentiment.

So as of today I'm sort of out of work. At least, I'm no longer working. I am taking two weeks out during which I am going to network, rebuild the contacts I had many moons ago and hopefully make some new ones... and if all goes well with that then in two weeks I'll return to work and hand in my notice.

SOOO... the upshot is that if anyone here's looking for a systems engineer/computer guy in the St. Louis area or surrounding areas, please get in touch. My rates are very competitive since I have no overhead, and I've already decided to provide discounts for volume of billable hours.

Also, any words of wisdom (yes, even from the peanut gallery) are greatly appreciated.

I've certainly grown to respect many of the friendships I've built both on this board and in RL with SVX owners, and hopefully can continue those friendships for many more years to come. I've also come to respect the opinions of those around here, so opinions are encouraged.

By all means, if you have something private to say PM me... I check my messages at least once a day. Otherwise, general advice could be posted here so others can benefit.

Congratulations to those who have sifted through my verbosity up to now

Thumper.

Chicane · #2 07-10-2003, 06:09 PM

in the computer business? Well. Good luck. I'd say that market seems pretty flooded right now, as even people with double majors, degrees, great grades, and a badass resume are having trouble getting jobs in the field... I mean, I suppose you could make your own... but... meh... I'm thinking other trades might be better. Like car stuff. People are INTO cars these days... I just need a really good idea... >

- Rob

PS: Good luck!!!!!!!

#3 07-10-2003, 06:20 PM

Another person here taking the plunge....wow. I wish I had some good advicse for you but personaly I've backed out of taking the chance three times now. I certainly feel the same way as you do about not being able to get ahead or be really successful unless you are your own boss. My fear is that I will screw up somewhere and land my family it a sticky situation. (ooh sorry that might not have been encouraging). I have however watched people who strike me as not very smart and in no way charismatic make a go of it and somehow manage to do ok.
I worked for a guy installing satelite dishes, not just direct tv but large cban, and even dishes for shopping malls ( I did the loyd and tailor store in meriden CT). for the 4+ months I worked for this guy he managed to bounce 3 of my checks but he has been in buisiness for 6 years. And I just did a few months doing Computer consulting, I did alot of work in Law firms and the likes but I found I was selling more buisiness for the guy that ran the place than he was and he never gave me credit. I'm not sure this is relevant or helpful

I do know that the Guy from the Consulting LLC paid someone to do phone power for him, you may want to look into that.

after all that I wish you luck.

Shane

Chicane · #4 07-10-2003, 06:56 PM

Well, I will propose this question... what's scarier????

1. Taking the plunge, starting your own business and having a chance of it failing

2. Not taking the plunge, and waking up one day and realizing your about to retire from a freaking insurance company that you've worked for for over 50 years.

...

- Rob

#5 07-10-2003, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chicane
Well, I will propose this question... what's scarier????

1. Taking the plunge, starting your own business and having a chance of it failing

2. Not taking the plunge, and waking up one day and realizing your about to retire from a freaking insurance company that you've worked for for over 50 years.

...

- Rob

I understand your point, but for me If I had a guaranteed paycheck for the next 50 years one that would allow me to pay my bills, and give me a sense of security than maybe that isn't so scary. I have two children and making sure I can afford my house fed them send them to decent schools takes priority. I guess its like gambling only gamble what you can afford to loose and for me right now its just not alot.

Chicane · #6 07-10-2003, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SVXdriver_007

I understand your point, but for me If I had a guaranteed paycheck for the next 50 years one that would allow me to pay my bills, and give me a sense of security than maybe that isn't so scary. I have two children and making sure I can afford my house fed them send them to decent schools takes priority. I guess its like gambling only gamble what you can afford to loose and for me right now its just not alot.

So you would be happy being the sacrificial lamb. Got it.

To quote Ayn Rand here (Atlas Shrugged, page 974)

"Accept the fact that the achievement of your happiness is the only moral purpose of your life, and that happiness- not pain or mindless self indulgence- is proof of your moral integrity, since it is hte proof and the result of your loyalty to the achievement of your values. Happiness was the responsibility you dreaded, it required the kind of rational discipline you did not value yourself enough to assume- and the anxious staleness of your day is the monument to your evasion of the knowledge that there is no moral substitute for happiness, that there is no more despicable coward than the man who deserted the battle for his joy, fearing to assert his right to existence, lacking the courage and the loyalty to life of a bird or a flower reaching for the sun. Discard the protective rags of that vice which you call a virtue: humility- learn to value yourself, which means: to fight for your happiness, and when you learn that pride is hte sum of all virtues, you will learn to live like a man."

- Rob

PS: Actually. Read that book. If you want, I'll buy you a copy and mail it to you. It'll change your life.

Stevebsy · #7 07-10-2003, 10:41 PM

Whoop! Atlas Shrugged! Randistas unite! I love that book! Wish I had it back...lent it to someone so they could read it, but they never did and didn't give it back grr... Hafta go pay them a visit...

Back to the hijacked hijacked topic tho... The rational man would not start a new venture without the proper preparation and funding. Working a job you don't like to get to the point of breaking away is acceptable. Jumping in without planning and resources would not be the rational path. Working in the quarry seemed to work for Roark until he got the work he wanted...

Sadly I find myself in this situation currently, but with every hour I can spend on my own projects and get to selling a few more the 'launch date' moves closer and closer and soon I can leave the 'quarry' of my current employer

Thumper - if doing your own thing is what you really want, make the preparations (sounds like you are a good part of the way there) chart your finances, make a good business plan for yourself, and when you have it together - go go go!

I think KISS said it best..."It's never too late to work 9 to 5"

Quote:

Originally posted by Chicane

PS: Actually. Read that book. If you want, I'll buy you a copy and mail it to you. It'll change your life.

Trevor · #8 07-11-2003, 12:39 AM

Make very sure real prospects exist before you make a move. Prospects must be lucrative. Do not get into a position where you are banging your head up against a brick wall ever in hope, even though this does spring eternal.

That said working on your own hehalf can have rewards other than directly financial. Someone alongside you can be a big help if not essential.

Having been there and done it I wish you congratulations and the very best as I am sure do everyone here.

benebob · #9 07-11-2003, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chicane

So you would be happy being the sacrificial lamb. Got it.

Happiness is different for everyone. Really is anyone totally happy working at all? If that were the case no one would be buying lottery tickets. I too just took the plunge. Have 2 more checks coming to me. A 30 year morgage, now a $400 a month car payment and two cats to feed and pay vet bills for but it isn't kids. How happy is someone who can't provide for their family? When you bring others who are 100% reliant on you for their well being perspectives on happiness change. If they are well taken care of then according to virtually every society in the world you are a success. If they aren't (even if you're happy) then you are a failure. Is it right? Maybe, maybe not but security or even perceived security is an essential component of happiness.

Thumper, I wish you the best of luck forging ahead and making these tough choices. It sounds as if you are getting positive feedback from your network which is a very good sign. As you're one friend put it. "With you're personality and abilities you will succeed". That is a totally true statement about the need to have the right personality and the right skills. Remember it is all about what you can provide over others. Since you are working alone you alone are the drive behind the business but then again it is also totally your strenths and weaknesses that will show through. There will be no more "I really wish I could do more but the boss..." statements. Then again, you can always look at your wife as the boss as well.

Chicane · #10 07-11-2003, 10:29 AM

Failure? It depends. My ex step dad owned Dairy Equipment Company... or DEC...which owns Boumatic, and countless other huge companies. I lived in a 3 mil house for a while... it was so big you had to use intercoms... anyway, the guy was an ass... and while he was a financial success, ultimately, I'd say he was a failure. He wasn't nice to people, he was super high strung, and he smoked pot all the time. FAILURE. Even though he can provide for his family.

I think the problem with most Americans is that they live beyond their means. Take you for example. A 400 dollar car payment? For the new legacy I'm assuming. Why did you buy a brand new car? You could have gotten a 94-96 legacy for dirt cheap, and avoid a huge car payment. I see it all the time. People with a nice Acura and a huge car payment, so they're literally CHAINED to their job in order to make the payments. BLECH! No thanks. I think I'll stick to buying things I can afford, and not have to be chained to a job in order to pay for them.

- Rob

thumper_svx · #11 07-11-2003, 10:41 AM

My sincerest thanks to all for the great feedback... currently it's what I'm feeding off. Rather than respond to everyone individually, allow me to be lazy and post a general reply

Financially this is going to be a tough move for me. However, I have already looked into it and plan to defer my mortgage payment for August which will help significantly. Add to that the fact that my wife is working and I have enough money already in the wings waiting to be delivered that I can afford to eat for the remainder of July and August without too much hassle.

What this means is that yes, I have been planning this for a while. I guess my wife almost being killed in a car wreck in April was my first wake-up call that really made a difference to me. It made me look at my job in a whole new light, and I didn't like what I saw. In fact, I've had people ASKING me to go independent for several years because they didn't like the companies I worked for and would rather deal with me directly.

Is it a risk? Yes, definitely. I too have the ridiculous mortgage payment, the $400 per month car payment... two kids and all the bills that go with it... but thankfully my wife works. While she doesn't bring in much after paying daycare and so forth (about $500 per month after taxes), that's still a good chunk of change so long as I can keep the outgoing expenses to a mininum for a while. I've also been doing side-work on a 10-99 basis for a couple of companies in town for many years (because of the aforementioned dislike of my employers), and at least one of them has already committed to 20 hours of work per month. That's a good start... and while it doesn't cover ALL the bills it will certainly make a sizeable dent in them.

The computer industry is down, yes... but there's something I think people aren't really looking at:

In IT, the job market is definitely down. Hell, I can barely get a bite on my resume which is better than the resume I used 3 years ago and had to beat potential employers off with a stick. That much we know. However, there is a HUGE demand for IT people... in a sense. That demand is in the small to mid-size sector; companies who are too small to support a full-time IT staff, but big enough to need one. They also don't want to pay too much, and an independent consultant like myself can easily undercut all the competition because I have almost zero overhead (with the exception of my gas expenses, car maintenance and cellphone bills which I would be paying anyway). This I think is the market I need to pursue... and networking has always been my forte.

I've still not made a set-in-stone decision, I'm sort of going to let that one fall into place over the next few days once I've had time to relax away from work for a while. My next move may be to independent work, or I may just go out there and bust my a** finding another full-time job. They're out there, it's just a matter of going to look for them... and the mistake I think many people in IT are making these days is only looking on the Internet. The old-fashioned ideas of job-hunting by paper, phone and in-person seems to have gone by the wayside, but has been the source of most of my leads so far.

Now... why did I quit sales again?

thumper_svx · #12 07-11-2003, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chicane
I think the problem with most Americans is that they live beyond their means.

Great quote... and VERY true. Of course, I'm a little guilty of that myself (see the $400 per month car payment for evidence of that), but you CAN justify that kind of a payment on a car if the car itself is providing you a service at a level that you would not or could not get elsewhere. I have three cars these days (none of them an SVX, but I stick around here... go figure); two of them I paid less than $1500 for each (cash), and the third is an Acura. Although I don't have payments on the first two, they DO cost me in maintenance. They are both older cars (one a '93 and the other a '96). The '96 gets significantly worse gas mileage than my Acura and has recently cost me $500 or so in a new A/C compressor after it seized (I knew it was going). The '93 I had to sink about $1000 into this year alone in order to get it to the point where the state would consider it roadworthy enough to drive.

So far maintenance on my Acura in the last 3 months has consisted of;

2 oil changes
1 replaced cup holder

Oh... and it gets me 26mpg on average in mixed driving. With the A/C on the '93 Escort gets me about 28... not significantly better... and the '93 I think is about to have some major problems.

Although your quote still stands as very true, I think in some circumstances it CAN be justified.

#13 07-11-2003, 11:05 AM

Ahhh Sh*t guys, It's Friday!! Beer consumption starts in 5 hours CST!! Can we wait to talk about this on Monday!!

Be a risk taker!! Job opportunities (like working for yourself!) come up for a reason don't they? I think you may have done right about taking a leave of absence. Give something else a try, if you don't like it you can always go back to the original job!!

... Or you can be like me who gets paid to do absolutely nothing except surf the net during the days!!

benebob · #14 07-11-2003, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chicane
Failure? It depends. My ex step dad owned Dairy Equipment Company... or DEC...which owns Boumatic, and countless other huge companies. I lived in a 3 mil house for a while... it was so big you had to use intercoms... anyway, the guy was an ass... and while he was a financial success, ultimately, I'd say he was a failure. He wasn't nice to people, he was super high strung, and he smoked pot all the time. FAILURE. Even though he can provide for his family.

I think the problem with most Americans is that they live beyond their means. Take you for example. A 400 dollar car payment? For the new legacy I'm assuming. Why did you buy a brand new car? You could have gotten a 94-96 legacy for dirt cheap, and avoid a huge car payment. I see it all the time. People with a nice Acura and a huge car payment, so they're literally CHAINED to their job in order to make the payments. BLECH! No thanks. I think I'll stick to buying things I can afford, and not have to be chained to a job in order to pay for them.

- Rob

Ah but Rob I'll bet most people looked at you're ex step dad as being a great success in life. That doesn't mean it was the case.

So saying you aren't gonna have a $400 car payment then would also mean that you'll never own a house? Sign a lease for rent? Buy anything that you don't pay cash for? $400 is more that I would prefer spending but then again, a 94 or 96 Legacy will definately not be nearly as safe and nearly as reliable (i.e. how much is it gonna cost to fix this month so my wife can get to work to pay the morgage?) over the next 5 years? Reason we got the GT was 1st off it came with side airbags. How many 94-96 legacies have those. Personally I could careless for me but my wife is a different story.

Wanna know how safe the car is? The insurance is going up $128 a year from her 95 Jetta. Had I bought my mom's Turbo 92 legacy and kept the same coverage it would've went up $411 a year. Think of the pay-offs for these cars?

Finally, were at the age that we've been starting to think family. Again safety comes in to the equation.

Mmmmm. Beer. That'll make my week end on an even better note!

thumper_svx · #15 07-11-2003, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JLittell
Ahhh Sh*t guys, It's Friday!! Beer consumption starts in 5 hours CST!! Can we wait to talk about this on Monday!!

Yeah, I know what you mean. Just wish I could afford the beer... know what I mean?

Quote:

Be a risk taker!! Job opportunities (like working for yourself!) come up for a reason don't they? I think you may have done right about taking a leave of absence. Give something else a try, if you don't like it you can always go back to the original job!!... Or you can be like me who gets paid to do absolutely nothing except surf the net during the days!!

Scum!!

I agree with the sentiment of being a risk taker. I think that I'm that personality type anyway.

So far I have to say that it's been a mixed bag emotionally. Some good, some bad... a lot of worrying how I'll make the bills for the next few months. But then again, in this economy who knows how stable a "real" job is anyway?

Anyway... so how'd you find that job again?