The Subaru SVX World Network   SVX Network Forums
Live Chat!
SVX or Subaru Links
Old Lockers
Photo Post
How-To Documents
Message Archive
SVX Shop Search
IRC users:

Go Back   The Subaru SVX World Network > SVX Main Forums > General SVX Babble

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 06-16-2003, 01:01 PM
Mr. Pockets's Avatar
Mr. Pockets Mr. Pockets is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 6,916
Send a message via ICQ to Mr. Pockets
Registered SVX
Quote:
Originally posted by want-a-fast-svx
Also, they gave me a theory about the reason for no oil being on the dipstick right after i turned the car off. It was because of the design of the engine and the small oil pan thats why the dipstick was bone dry..
They have poop in their mouths.
__________________


2005 RX-8 Grand Touring
2005 Outback
2002 Mercedes-Benz E320 wagon

END OF LINE
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-16-2003, 01:14 PM
mohrds's Avatar
mohrds mohrds is offline
Fight Eminent Domain Abuse!
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 3,175
Send a message via AIM to mohrds Send a message via Yahoo to mohrds
Quote:
Originally posted by want-a-fast-svx
The only way the rod could have gotten damaged is by oil deprivation?? Correct?? So in turn this would mean that the engine could not have been damaged by a timing belt tensioner malfunctioning. The seals that were replaced were cam seal, crank seal, valve cover gaskets, timing belt, water pump. Thanks for any help...
It sure sounds to me like:
A. Someone forgot to replace the oil after doing the work
B. Someone forgot to install the oil drain plug.
C. Someone forgot to install one or more of the seals.
D. Someone is missing a watch or wedding ring and it is in your engine.

You will probably have to take it to several independant mechanics for a written listing of damage. It will probably cost you money to get them, but then you have the legal recourse if the first shop did something to cause this.

Unfortunatly, it could also just be bad luck...

Good luck with it.

Doug
__________________
1992 LS Touring (6/91) - Currently undergoing a five speed swap
Black over Claret with spoiler; 235,000 miles; Mods: 2002 Legacy 5 speed, ACT Pressure Plate, Excedy Clutch, Short Throw Shifter, Aussie Powerchip
1992 LS Touring (6/91)
Black over Claret with 2.5" setback spoiler; 202,000 miles; Mods: B&M Cooler
1994 LSi (4/93)
Bordeaux Pearl; 198,000 miles; Mods: Weight reduction.

1969 Mustang GT Convertible
1970 Mustang Convertible
2000 Ford Excursion
Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua.

My Locker
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-16-2003, 01:16 PM
Mr. Pockets's Avatar
Mr. Pockets Mr. Pockets is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 6,916
Send a message via ICQ to Mr. Pockets
Registered SVX
Quote:
Originally posted by mohrds


It sure sounds to me like:
A. Someone forgot to replace the oil after doing the work
B. Someone forgot to install the oil drain plug.
C. Someone forgot to install one or more of the seals.
D. Someone is missing a watch or wedding ring and it is in your engine.

You will probably have to take it to several independant mechanics for a written listing of damage. It will probably cost you money to get them, but then you have the legal recourse if the first shop did something to cause this.

Unfortunatly, it could also just be bad luck...

Good luck with it.

Doug
Very good insight, and you're absolutely right that it could be bad luck. Still, I find this unlikely. EG33s fail so rarely - and certainly not in spectacular fashion.
__________________


2005 RX-8 Grand Touring
2005 Outback
2002 Mercedes-Benz E320 wagon

END OF LINE
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-16-2003, 02:03 PM
want-a-fast-svx want-a-fast-svx is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 793
Send a message via AIM to want-a-fast-svx
so would you say that the oil should of been replaced when they did the seals???Because they are trying to say they never put any oil in the car at any point in time. So if they were supposed to or something of that nature and you know from a manual that would be great if you could chime in here....I truly appreciate all this help so far hopefully its not just bad luck, wouldnt suprise me though..I would hope that after screwing it up the first time they would of put the selas in correct the second time, but obviously they didnt...Also i need to know if they are going to try and say that since it is an interference motor in their eyes the damage to a rod could be done by this? IS this a possiblity in an interference engine???Or is a rod only damaged by lack of oil???Sorry for the questions, Eerything is as always greatly appreciated...
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-16-2003, 02:40 PM
jsvxstyle jsvxstyle is offline
MINEZ BETTER
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: ANTIOCH, CALIFORNIA
Posts: 405
did you break a timing belt before, while driving
__________________
white leathers, h.i.d, ecutune S/C stage 4, 14 inch 2piece rotors big brake kit., , msd ignition, c/f dash kit, front spoiler,carbon fiber jdm rearc wing,19 inch rims, nos, , aem fuel regulater, koni-gc package, ported cylinder heads, supercharger cams,solid buck and shims,wrx sti intake valve and exhaust valves,& valve springs, gas analizer,water injection, exhaust temp gauge, idiglo gauges, shift kit, , remote start, all automatic windows,2.5 inch true dual exhaust system with crossover, and 2 borla stainless steal muffler,air filter velocity air stack 3inch to 6 for air filtre, group n mounts, momo steering wheel, dyno will happan soon
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06-16-2003, 02:47 PM
want-a-fast-svx want-a-fast-svx is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 793
Send a message via AIM to want-a-fast-svx
No I've never blown a timing belt before, unless I happend to blow one when the supposed tensioner broke, but i dont think i did since my mechanic said the belt and tensioner looked fine and were tight and holding tension....Kinda odd huh the part that is be bad seems to be functioning corretly, but I dont know enough of this engine to say anything....Thanks again for the help so far
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-16-2003, 03:01 PM
want-a-fast-svx want-a-fast-svx is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 793
Send a message via AIM to want-a-fast-svx
also i was curious would the belt be damaged at all if the tensioner did go???cause the belt looks fine according to my mechanic....thanks again for any and all help so far...
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-16-2003, 03:06 PM
jsvxstyle jsvxstyle is offline
MINEZ BETTER
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: ANTIOCH, CALIFORNIA
Posts: 405
well see it this way.

rod knock is do to stress on the upper bushing were the pin mates, where to size the thrust pin and the solid bearing no longer meets the specification of being fully squared, meaning a perfect circle, same goes on the bottom of the rod where it mates to the crankshaft

lack of lubrication will heat up the bottom of the rod where it meets the crank shaft first. meaning the bearings would seize up, and when it cools down, the hole is bigger than it was hot. boom rod knocks.

if a piston collides with the valves and thinking that it was the reason of a rod knock, would be impossible, threw my eyes that ive never seen that before, but to only see the piston, will be dented on the dome, the top parts of the piston, or i will have a hole on the dome resulting loss of compression, now if you had that your car woulnt be running right at all

lack of lubrication is what i assume is the cause, doing the seals on the engine would be a minimal loss of oil only to be toped off.

if you want me to e-mail soa i will ask the tech department your question on interference, so you can be one hundred percent that it is not a collide motor.
__________________
white leathers, h.i.d, ecutune S/C stage 4, 14 inch 2piece rotors big brake kit., , msd ignition, c/f dash kit, front spoiler,carbon fiber jdm rearc wing,19 inch rims, nos, , aem fuel regulater, koni-gc package, ported cylinder heads, supercharger cams,solid buck and shims,wrx sti intake valve and exhaust valves,& valve springs, gas analizer,water injection, exhaust temp gauge, idiglo gauges, shift kit, , remote start, all automatic windows,2.5 inch true dual exhaust system with crossover, and 2 borla stainless steal muffler,air filter velocity air stack 3inch to 6 for air filtre, group n mounts, momo steering wheel, dyno will happan soon
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-16-2003, 03:07 PM
jsvxstyle jsvxstyle is offline
MINEZ BETTER
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: ANTIOCH, CALIFORNIA
Posts: 405
if it was me i would change the belt anywayz, cuz its cheap
__________________
white leathers, h.i.d, ecutune S/C stage 4, 14 inch 2piece rotors big brake kit., , msd ignition, c/f dash kit, front spoiler,carbon fiber jdm rearc wing,19 inch rims, nos, , aem fuel regulater, koni-gc package, ported cylinder heads, supercharger cams,solid buck and shims,wrx sti intake valve and exhaust valves,& valve springs, gas analizer,water injection, exhaust temp gauge, idiglo gauges, shift kit, , remote start, all automatic windows,2.5 inch true dual exhaust system with crossover, and 2 borla stainless steal muffler,air filter velocity air stack 3inch to 6 for air filtre, group n mounts, momo steering wheel, dyno will happan soon
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-16-2003, 03:18 PM
mohrds's Avatar
mohrds mohrds is offline
Fight Eminent Domain Abuse!
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 3,175
Send a message via AIM to mohrds Send a message via Yahoo to mohrds
Quote:
Originally posted by want-a-fast-svx
also i was curious would the belt be damaged at all if the tensioner did go???cause the belt looks fine according to my mechanic....thanks again for any and all help so far...
Did he check the timing? If the tensioner failed and the valve train alignment was off, it could cause a collision of piston and valve, but not in an EG33 because of the non-interference design.

The tensioner is just a small, super high pressure hydraulic strut like what holds up our hoods. The procedure for testing it is to remove it from the car and put all your body weight on it and try to compress it. If it compresses slowly, its fine. If it compresses fast & easy or not at all, it is leaking or frozen.

As far as changing oil after a seal job. No one can be 100% sure that no debris was introduced to the internal parts during service in a non high-tech, environmentally controlled clean room (which I've never seen in a shop open to the public), so a $20 oil change is a simple safety precaution.

Doug
__________________
1992 LS Touring (6/91) - Currently undergoing a five speed swap
Black over Claret with spoiler; 235,000 miles; Mods: 2002 Legacy 5 speed, ACT Pressure Plate, Excedy Clutch, Short Throw Shifter, Aussie Powerchip
1992 LS Touring (6/91)
Black over Claret with 2.5" setback spoiler; 202,000 miles; Mods: B&M Cooler
1994 LSi (4/93)
Bordeaux Pearl; 198,000 miles; Mods: Weight reduction.

1969 Mustang GT Convertible
1970 Mustang Convertible
2000 Ford Excursion
Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua.

My Locker
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-16-2003, 03:21 PM
Mr. Pockets's Avatar
Mr. Pockets Mr. Pockets is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 6,916
Send a message via ICQ to Mr. Pockets
Registered SVX
Since most of the oil should be in the pan when the engine's not running, I don't see why they'd need to change or refill the oil in order to replace the seals you mentioned. But, since they did over a thousand dollars in engine work, mostly involving oil seals, you'd think someone would've checked. Hell, I would've thought that they'd just tack on an oil change anyway.
__________________


2005 RX-8 Grand Touring
2005 Outback
2002 Mercedes-Benz E320 wagon

END OF LINE
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-16-2003, 03:25 PM
want-a-fast-svx want-a-fast-svx is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 793
Send a message via AIM to want-a-fast-svx
Quote:
Originally posted by jsvxstyle
well see it this way.


lack of lubrication is what i assume is the cause, doing the seals on the engine would be a minimal loss of oil only to be toped off.

.
ok i understand and really appreciate the explanation of the rod knock...Now about the lubrication, im just a little un clear what it is your saying right here...Are you saying that if one of the seals went there wouldnt be enough oil lost for this to happen and it must of been something in combination with this????sorry just not to clear...I reallly do appreciate the help so far, i emailed soa but i dont know if i emailed the correct place if you wouldnt mind emailing them for me and asking that would be awesome...MY email is jeepman173@yahoo.com if you need it...I really really appreciate the help...
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-16-2003, 03:30 PM
jsvxstyle jsvxstyle is offline
MINEZ BETTER
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: ANTIOCH, CALIFORNIA
Posts: 405
well if the oil seals were blown out due to incorrect fitting yes you would have major issues,

ill do that for you on soa ok
__________________
white leathers, h.i.d, ecutune S/C stage 4, 14 inch 2piece rotors big brake kit., , msd ignition, c/f dash kit, front spoiler,carbon fiber jdm rearc wing,19 inch rims, nos, , aem fuel regulater, koni-gc package, ported cylinder heads, supercharger cams,solid buck and shims,wrx sti intake valve and exhaust valves,& valve springs, gas analizer,water injection, exhaust temp gauge, idiglo gauges, shift kit, , remote start, all automatic windows,2.5 inch true dual exhaust system with crossover, and 2 borla stainless steal muffler,air filter velocity air stack 3inch to 6 for air filtre, group n mounts, momo steering wheel, dyno will happan soon
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-16-2003, 03:44 PM
want-a-fast-svx want-a-fast-svx is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 793
Send a message via AIM to want-a-fast-svx
thank you very much
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-16-2003, 06:40 PM
oab_au oab_au is offline
Registered User
Subaru Gold Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Coffs Harb, Australia.
Posts: 5,032
Significant Technical Input Registered SVX
Disappearing oil?

IF, the engine had a piston hit the valves due to being interference, the piston would crush the valves into the head. If this happened the engine would have no compression in that cylinder, and would not run as you say it does. The chance of a rod being damaged due to this is and not damaging the valve gear is nil.

The story about the oil not being in the pan when the engine is running or stopped is crap, regardless of engine design. The only way the pump can pull air instead of oil is if there is no oil in the pan.

This looks like their fault. It is their responsibility to ensure that the engine is in a serviceable condition when you pick it up. This includes ensuring that there is the right amount of oil in it.

If it sounds like a rod big end bearing, is making the noise, the only way to tell is to drop the pan and have a look. There will be many signs of lack of lube in there if this is the case.

Harvey.
__________________
One Arm Bloke.
Tell it like it is!

95 Lsi. Bordeaux Pearl, Aust. RHD.149,000Kls Subaru BBS wheels.
97 Liberty GX Auto sedan. 320,000Kls.
04 Liberty 30R Auto Premium. 92.000kls.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2015 SVX World Network
(208)-906-1122