96 SVX Ignition Problem

[swpyne]

I'm new to the forum and this is my first post.

My 96 SVX has recently been giving me some trouble with starting it up. When I put the key in and turn it, all the dashboard lights go on but it doesn't always start. There is sometimes an audible "groan" but that's it. If I turn it off and on three or four times I've so far been able to get it started.

Once it starts, the car runs great and if I turn it off while it's warm it always starts right back up.

If I leave it for a day or two, that's when I run into the problem. I don't know anything about the way the ignition works but it seems as though there is some kind of voltage problem. As though a charge in a coil or something is dissipating when the car is left for a couple days.

I looked on Ebay and found a bunch of ignition components including a new ignition switch, ignition coil and something called an ignition coil module center.

I'm looking for some insight and/or suggestions as to which component may be failing and causing this problem. I'd love to try to fix this myself if at all possible.

Thanks for listening............

[oab_au]

Originally Posted by swpyne

I'm new to the forum and this is my first post.

My 96 SVX has recently been giving me some trouble with starting it up. When I put the key in and turn it, all the dashboard lights go on but it doesn't always start. There is sometimes an audible "groan" but that's it. If I turn it off and on three or four times I've so far been able to get it started.

Once it starts, the car runs great and if I turn it off while it's warm it always starts right back up.

If I leave it for a day or two, that's when I run into the problem. I don't know anything about the way the ignition works but it seems as though there is some kind of voltage problem. As though a charge in a coil or something is dissipating when the car is left for a couple days.

I looked on Ebay and found a bunch of ignition components including a new ignition switch, ignition coil and something called an ignition coil module center.

I'm looking for some insight and/or suggestions as to which component may be failing and causing this problem. I'd love to try to fix this myself if at all possible.

Thanks for listening............

I don't think it is an ignition problem.
If the starter is engaging and trying to turn the engine over, but it only turns slowly, there is a problem with the main battery to the starter wiring. Maybe battery terminals dirty, or a bad cell in the battery.

If there is just a click but no starter turning over, then it is a problem with the power to the starter solenoid. Either the Security relays contacts are pitted, or it needs a Bosch relay fitted to the solenoid.

Harvey.

[swpyne]

Originally Posted by oab_au

I don't think it is an ignition problem.
If the starter is engaging and trying to turn the engine over, but it only turns slowly, there is a problem with the main battery to the starter wiring. Maybe battery terminals dirty, or a bad cell in the battery.

If there is just a click but no starter turning over, then it is a problem with the power to the starter solenoid. Either the Security relays contacts are pitted, or it needs a Bosch relay fitted to the solenoid.

Harvey.

Thanks Harvey!

If the starter engages then the car starts right up. I don't think it's the starter. It seems like a dirty contact prior to the starter getting power. I'm thinking that the Bosch relay sounds like a more likely solution.

My problem is that I don't know specifically what to buy to try to fix this problem. Any specifics would be most appreciated!

[oab_au]

Originally Posted by swpyne

Thanks Harvey!

If the starter engages then the car starts right up. I don't think it's the starter. It seems like a dirty contact prior to the starter getting power. I'm thinking that the Bosch relay sounds like a more likely solution.

My problem is that I don't know specifically what to buy to try to fix this problem. Any specifics would be most appreciated!

Yes it just removes the large amount of current that is flowing through the wiring to power the solenoid. Lets the relay do it.

It is contained in this thread post No.9
http://svxworldforums.com/forum3/3422-1.html

Harvey.

[Will]

Welcome to the forum. I have learned a ton about the SVX from the people here. Alot of the members here really know their stuff when it comes to our cars and are more than willing to help out.Good luck with your current problem.

[jellybytes2]

I don't know much about cars but I do know something about electricity. I will go with the bad battery guess. The "12v" battery is actually made up of 6 2.1v cells. If one of those cells is bad a fully charged battery will provide 10.5 volts which is enough to get the engine going though slowly and will take a couple of tries. Once going you are good because the alternator is running the car and will place a "surface charge" on the battery that allows is to provide 13 or more volts. The surface charge fades fairly quickly but will persist for short stops and allow you to restart the car.

Take the car over to autozone or advance and they can do a free check of your battery for you.

If I'm being stupid someone will point it out soon enough.

[icingdeath88]

In general when it comes to electrical problems I'll agree that the battery is one of the first things to check. However in this case it's likely a specific problem that can be narrowed down to one relay that likes to go bad. Tough SOB to get to but an easy, cheap fix overall.

[Manarius]

As I had this issue once upon a time, I can offer a few things to check.

In this order I would check them (cheapest to most expensive)

1. The bolt that holds the positive lead to the back of the starter. Undo all the cables to the battery and feel around at the back of the starter near where the positive lead is bolted to the back of the starter. Check to see that this nut is tight. It can back off and can cause intermittent starting issues as you have described (ask me how I know )

2. Get the battery load tested at Autozone or Advance Auto or some place like that to see if it's toast.

2a. The lead cables for the battery. As the cars age and the batteries age, the rings on the lead cables can break because of all the corrosion from the battery. In my case, the ring on my negative lead broke and was causing intermittent starter failure.

3. The bosch relay mod is a great idea. I did this while I was struggling with your issue. It makes the car turn over much faster. However, take note that it does mess with the grounding of the cruise control system and can cause a CEL if you put the car in reverse (maybe neutral too) while the cruise control is on. I don't know if the method has changed since I did it (like a year ago or so), so maybe that has changed.

[swpyne]

Thanks to everyone for all the great input. If there are any other ideas out there please send them my way. I'm going to take a look at the car tomorrow and see if any of these suggestions might solve the problem.

The weird part from my perspective is that if I go out to the garage and start the car at least once a day, it always immediately turns over and starts right up. If I leave it un-started and unused for two or three days, then it won't turnover at all when I try to start it and it takes several tries before the contact is made and the starter turns over. Once contact is made it starts right up. There is no issue with the starter turning over too slowly or anything like that.

It's as if something is losing it's charge when the car sits for a few days and it seems to have something to do with what happens when you turn the key all the way to start.

[swpyne]

Well after checking everything out I have concluded that it actually "may" be the battery. My current battery is only cranking out about 390 amps and it's supposed to put out 550. This "might" explain why the car starts right up if I use it every day but won't start normally if I leave it un-started for three days or more.

If any of you have any specific battery recommendations please don't hesitate to share. I want to get the best battery for the bucks and I'm not really sure where to go other than Sears. I'm probably going to head over there on Friday (tomorrow) and see what they have that will fit.

[B 4 You]

I just bought the typical autocraft gold battery from advance auto. It was about $90, and i used this coupon code: RAF7JA1102 and got $35 off I think? Made the battery close to about $60. Just search coupon codes!

[oab_au]

Originally Posted by swpyne

when I try to start it and it takes several tries before the contact is made and the starter turns over. Once contact is made it starts right up. There is no issue with the starter turning over too slowly or anything like that.
.

If the battery was at fault, it would not, start right up, it would still be at fault. The battery can't not have the power to start the engine,then suddenly have the power to start it, unless the battery terminals are at fault.

Originally Posted by swpyne

Well after checking everything out I have concluded that it actually "may" be the battery. My current battery is only cranking out about 390 amps and it's supposed to put out 550. This "might" explain why the car starts right up if I use it every day but won't start normally if I leave it un-started for three days or more.
.

The battery does not cause the amount of current that will flow. That is set by the starter resistance. If the starter draws 250 amps, then that is all that will flow, the battery won't push 550 amps through it.
About 200 amps is normal for a start.


Harvey.

[swpyne]

Originally Posted by oab_au

If the battery was at fault, it would not, start right up, it would still be at fault. The battery can't not have the power to start the engine,then suddenly have the power to start it, unless the battery terminals are at fault.




The battery does not cause the amount of current that will flow. That is set by the starter resistance. If the starter draws 250 amps, then that is all that will flow, the battery won't push 550 amps through it.
About 200 amps is normal for a start.


Harvey.

Thanks Harvey, that is certainly food for thought. I'm hesitant to replace the ignition switch and key lock which has been recommended because the problem seems to be related to dissipating power of some kind.

If it "can't" be the battery then what is it that changes when the car is left un-started for several days? It seems logical to me that it's somehow related to "something" losing a charge over time. It's very consistent as far as this goes. If I start it every day it "always" starts. If I leave it for a few days, it doesn't!

[oab_au]

Originally Posted by swpyne

Thanks Harvey, that is certainly food for thought. I'm hesitant to replace the ignition switch and key lock which has been recommended because the problem seems to be related to dissipating power of some kind.

If it "can't" be the battery then what is it that changes when the car is left un-started for several days? It seems logical to me that it's somehow related to "something" losing a charge over time. It's very consistent as far as this goes. If I start it every day it "always" starts. If I leave it for a few days, it doesn't!

If you have a multi meter, measure the battery voltage, before you start it, when it sits for one day.
Then do it again when it has sat for a few days.
See what the voltage falls to after it has sat for a while.
Normal would be 12.6V full, anything below 11.8V is too low to start.

Edit; I am assuming that you have done the relay mod? If you haven’t, we are wasting our time.
As the battery voltage will be reduced through all the switches that the relay will bypass.
So the battery would only have to drop a small bit, to not have enough to pull the starter solenoid in.


Harvey.