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  #1  
Old 08-04-2006, 07:11 PM
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Alternator output questions

For years I have had a perfectly functioning charging system. I have the stock 10yr. old, 95A Subaru alternator, a two year old Optima red top battery and the alternator wiring mod.

Using my plug-in voltmeter, My voltage upon startup was 14.4V. Running normal accessories like A/C and lights gave me overall operating voltages of around 13.8V while driving and about 13.5V at idle. I never had any starting problems or the "Christmas Tree" syndrome.

I have only done two electrical modifications recently:
I added a 30A relay to power my Hella Supertone horns, which was pretty straight forward. I also replaced my alternator plug with a new one. This consisted of cutting the two wires from the old plug and soldering/shrink-wrapping and taping the wire connections to the new plug.... however

Since I did this I noticed that all of my voltages are around a volt lower than they were. Startup is now at 13V instead of 14.4V. Running around now is about 12.6V with air, etc. When I cut the two wires from the old alternator plug, one of them accidentally touched the manifold and made a small spark, but blew no fuses. Could I have done something to the diode or rectifier?

The car still runs and operates normally without any sort of symptoms or lights, but for the first time ever with A/C lights, stereo, etc. the voltmeter will occasionally read 11.8V at idle--This has never happened before.

Is it even worth worrying about? Is there any tests that can be done to check this out? It sounds like something else is drawing current, but the horn relay is not energized normally and is totally isolated. As I said all my connections are soldered, shrink wrapped, taped and run inside spiral wrap.

Any help is appreciated.

.
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1996 Polo Green LSi #216..138,100 miles...SOLD

JFICX8659TH100216.....Date of Manufacture: November 16, 1995.....
Fuji Heavy Industries..Ōta North Plant....Ōta City,. Gunma Prefecture, Japan

In-Service Date: January 2, 1997



"The Pristine Green Polo Machine”
First Polo Green on the Network
First Clear front turn signals, JDM Alcyone hood emblem, rear panel, and BOXER engine cover on the Network (US) (2000)
First 5000K HID factory fog lights (2007)
First SVX JDM BBS wheels on a USDM SVX (2013)

HID lighting (5000K) for headlight and H3 fog lights, PIAA SuperExtreme 120W high beams, rebuilt EG33 longblock, Cometic head gaskets, Phase II flexplate, AMR aluminum radiator with custom silicone hoses, 160A high-output alternator in aluminum-ceramic coated case, new design alternator wiring upgrade v.4, rare factory headlight protectors, refinished JDM BBS mesh aluminum wheels and custom, polished billet aluminum new hex center caps, LED grille mod, R1 Concepts high-carbon cryo slotted rotors, Akebono ceramic pads, Goodridge S/S braided brake lines, Smallcar Stage 1 shift kit, ThermalTech aluminum/ceramic-coated valve covers, Energy Suspension urethane front & rear swaybar bushings, Bontrager22 rear swaybar with QS Components Chromoly Teflon/Kevlar endlinks, "$15.00/5 minute" suspension mod. Hella Supertone horns, Custom stainless steel exhaust system with 2" headpipes, Magnaflow cats, AeroTurbine AR25 resonator /AWD "Bullet" muffler.


R.I.P. 2010 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5 CVT...338,000 miles. Totaled by a 1,300 lb. COW March 4, 2016

2014 Hyundai Avante Limited ...178,000 miles. Actually quieter and smoother than the Outback

2007 Mazda Miata MX-5 PRHT...102,000 miles.
Plenty of parts, service and windshields.


4th Registered Network member —2/21/2001

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Last edited by svxcess; 08-04-2006 at 07:21 PM.
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  #2  
Old 08-04-2006, 09:28 PM
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dannmarr dannmarr is offline
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Plug in volt meters are not accurate. Use an actual voltmeter to test the battery and alternator for more accuracy.
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  #3  
Old 08-04-2006, 10:18 PM
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Can you advise which wire grounded and made a spark? The unlikely event that the regulator could have been damaged, would require the the thick main wire to be intact, while the alternator side of the cut pilot wire was grounded. Even then, damage could not be positively stated as being likely. The rectifier diodes could not have been affected.

Provided both sets of figures were recorded with the same meter, connected at the same point without any possible connection problems, the readings should be accurate.

Why did you replace the alternator plug? Is the replacement making a reliable connection. Move things about while watching your meter.
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  #4  
Old 08-05-2006, 08:05 AM
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I am not sure which of the wire it was that made the spark. There are two wires coming from the plug at the back of the alternator; the bottom one is a heavier gauge than the top one.

The plug is a replacement connector for this alternator and comes pre-assembled with about 6" of wire to splice onto your existing ones. My original plug had cracks in the insulation close to the plug itself, though no bare wire was exposed. The connector snapped in completely without any problems and is very secure.

The voltmeter is very accurate and records in .1V increments. It stays connected in my cigarette lighter outlet all the time. As I turn accessories on and off I can see the voltage drop and return.

Exactly what are the purposes of the two wires on the connector? What is a "pilot" wire? I tried looking in the FSM but couldn't figure it out. In the Power Supply Routing diagram (FSM 6-3, pg. 14) it is the gray connector F35. The white wire shows battery current to the ignition switch. The brown wire shows "other currents" to ALT-1.
.
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Subaru Ambassador

1996 Polo Green LSi #216..138,100 miles...SOLD

JFICX8659TH100216.....Date of Manufacture: November 16, 1995.....
Fuji Heavy Industries..Ōta North Plant....Ōta City,. Gunma Prefecture, Japan

In-Service Date: January 2, 1997



"The Pristine Green Polo Machine”
First Polo Green on the Network
First Clear front turn signals, JDM Alcyone hood emblem, rear panel, and BOXER engine cover on the Network (US) (2000)
First 5000K HID factory fog lights (2007)
First SVX JDM BBS wheels on a USDM SVX (2013)

HID lighting (5000K) for headlight and H3 fog lights, PIAA SuperExtreme 120W high beams, rebuilt EG33 longblock, Cometic head gaskets, Phase II flexplate, AMR aluminum radiator with custom silicone hoses, 160A high-output alternator in aluminum-ceramic coated case, new design alternator wiring upgrade v.4, rare factory headlight protectors, refinished JDM BBS mesh aluminum wheels and custom, polished billet aluminum new hex center caps, LED grille mod, R1 Concepts high-carbon cryo slotted rotors, Akebono ceramic pads, Goodridge S/S braided brake lines, Smallcar Stage 1 shift kit, ThermalTech aluminum/ceramic-coated valve covers, Energy Suspension urethane front & rear swaybar bushings, Bontrager22 rear swaybar with QS Components Chromoly Teflon/Kevlar endlinks, "$15.00/5 minute" suspension mod. Hella Supertone horns, Custom stainless steel exhaust system with 2" headpipes, Magnaflow cats, AeroTurbine AR25 resonator /AWD "Bullet" muffler.


R.I.P. 2010 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5 CVT...338,000 miles. Totaled by a 1,300 lb. COW March 4, 2016

2014 Hyundai Avante Limited ...178,000 miles. Actually quieter and smoother than the Outback

2007 Mazda Miata MX-5 PRHT...102,000 miles.
Plenty of parts, service and windshields.


4th Registered Network member —2/21/2001

My NEW locker..I...My Email..I..Wikipedia/SVX .

.
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  #5  
Old 08-05-2006, 05:18 PM
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The thin pilot wire provides a positive voltage, which the alternator voltage regulator uses as a reference point, independent of the main charging circuit which it controls.
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  #6  
Old 08-05-2006, 05:44 PM
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John,
Do you have an Advance Auto or Auto Zone around you? You might want to get the alternator checked out to see if it is actually putting out the correct amperage - they can also check out the battery while you're there .
-Bill
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  #7  
Old 08-05-2006, 06:21 PM
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Yeah John what Bill said! They can test it on the car I think as well so you don't even need to take it out. Also, you can go back to one of those starter/alt shops and have them test it. I wouldn't buy an alt from Autozone or Advance if my life depended on it (unless it was like $40 with a lifetime warranty like my Brat's was).
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  #8  
Old 08-06-2006, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benebob
Yeah John what Bill said! They can test it on the car I think as well so you don't even need to take it out. Also, you can go back to one of those starter/alt shops and have them test it. I wouldn't buy an alt from Autozone or Advance if my life depended on it (unless it was like $40 with a lifetime warranty like my Brat's was).

Ben,
Lifetime warrenty = Good!
I've got an Advance Auto within walking distance of my house (okay, so it's a 1 mile walk ) and they've been pretty good to date -- replaced one of their "Titanium" batteries without any hassle.
-Bill
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'92 Fully caged, 5 speed, waiting for its fully built EG33
'92 "Test Mule", 4:44 Auto, JDM 4:44 Rear Diff with Mech LSD, Tuned headers, Full one-off suspension
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  #9  
Old 08-06-2006, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVXRide
Do you have an Advance Auto or Auto Zone around you? You might want to get the alternator checked out to see if it is actually putting out the correct amperage - they can also check out the battery while you're there .
-Bill
I took my car to both Advance Auto and Auto Zone this morning to have them check the electrical system. Although their diagnostics did not give me exact values, tests of the alternator at both stores told me the alternator was charging properly and theat the diode circuits were good. Their load tests of the battery told me that the battery was good as well.

So maybe my voltmeter is in need if calibration. I removed it from the cigarette lighter and am not going to worry about it. As I said, I have no warning symptoms or abnormalities at all.

Its like a faulty bathroom scale which weighs 5 pounds more than it needs to. Focusing solely on the numbers is very frustrating.
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Subaru Ambassador

1996 Polo Green LSi #216..138,100 miles...SOLD

JFICX8659TH100216.....Date of Manufacture: November 16, 1995.....
Fuji Heavy Industries..Ōta North Plant....Ōta City,. Gunma Prefecture, Japan

In-Service Date: January 2, 1997



"The Pristine Green Polo Machine”
First Polo Green on the Network
First Clear front turn signals, JDM Alcyone hood emblem, rear panel, and BOXER engine cover on the Network (US) (2000)
First 5000K HID factory fog lights (2007)
First SVX JDM BBS wheels on a USDM SVX (2013)

HID lighting (5000K) for headlight and H3 fog lights, PIAA SuperExtreme 120W high beams, rebuilt EG33 longblock, Cometic head gaskets, Phase II flexplate, AMR aluminum radiator with custom silicone hoses, 160A high-output alternator in aluminum-ceramic coated case, new design alternator wiring upgrade v.4, rare factory headlight protectors, refinished JDM BBS mesh aluminum wheels and custom, polished billet aluminum new hex center caps, LED grille mod, R1 Concepts high-carbon cryo slotted rotors, Akebono ceramic pads, Goodridge S/S braided brake lines, Smallcar Stage 1 shift kit, ThermalTech aluminum/ceramic-coated valve covers, Energy Suspension urethane front & rear swaybar bushings, Bontrager22 rear swaybar with QS Components Chromoly Teflon/Kevlar endlinks, "$15.00/5 minute" suspension mod. Hella Supertone horns, Custom stainless steel exhaust system with 2" headpipes, Magnaflow cats, AeroTurbine AR25 resonator /AWD "Bullet" muffler.


R.I.P. 2010 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5 CVT...338,000 miles. Totaled by a 1,300 lb. COW March 4, 2016

2014 Hyundai Avante Limited ...178,000 miles. Actually quieter and smoother than the Outback

2007 Mazda Miata MX-5 PRHT...102,000 miles.
Plenty of parts, service and windshields.


4th Registered Network member —2/21/2001

My NEW locker..I...My Email..I..Wikipedia/SVX .

.
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  #10  
Old 08-06-2006, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVXRide
Ben,
Lifetime warrenty = Good!
I've got an Advance Auto within walking distance of my house (okay, so it's a 1 mile walk ) and they've been pretty good to date -- replaced one of their "Titanium" batteries without any hassle.
-Bill
Not when it craps out and leaves you sit which they tend to do plus they're expensive as can be. Then again, I'm guessing you're loosing weight the old fashion way rather than taking it off your car.
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  #11  
Old 08-06-2006, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svxcess
So maybe my voltmeter is in need if calibration. I removed it from the cigarette lighter and am not going to worry about it. As I said, I have no warning symptoms or abnormalities at all.

Its like a faulty bathroom scale which weighs 5 pounds more than it needs to. Focusing solely on the numbers is very frustrating.
You have confirmed my suspicions and are doing the correct thing. However use the voltmeter to again check directly off the battery and again at the lighter socket and make a comparison. The lighter circuit could be faulty and not the meter. It is common for the socket, which gets hot, to become badly corroded.

If you can get your hands on a brand new six volt lantern battery this could provide a check. If anything slightly more than 6 V. should register. Also check the meter against one known to be accurate. Silly to just dump it.
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  #12  
Old 08-06-2006, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor
You have confirmed my suspicions and are doing the correct thing. However use the voltmeter to again check directly off the battery and again at the lighter socket and make a comparison. The lighter circuit could be faulty and not the meter. It is common for the socket, which gets hot, to become badly corroded.

If you can get your hands on a brand new six volt lantern battery this could provide a check. If anything slightly more than 6 V. should register. Also check the meter against one known to be accurate. Silly to just dump it.

Trevor,
Excellent point!

Ben,
Yeah, yeah, yeah....I could of had a "DieHard"...where's that sticking out your tongue smilie?
-Bill
p.s. congrats on the performance at "States"!
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  #13  
Old 08-07-2006, 12:29 PM
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I had a similar thing happen to me. Turned out I just had the heated mirrors on. There's a 1V drop when those things are on!
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  #14  
Old 08-09-2006, 11:13 PM
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At reading 7, I turned on John's headlights on high beam, Heat was on at High, rear defroster on, heated mirrors on, did your voltmeter read below 11V? Did you remember? How about now? If I kept turning on your hazard light, front and rear wipers and step on your brakes....do you think it will drop below 10V? But you have alternator wiring upgrade!


For my observations on mine, my teal's alternator seems to be output a little bit lower than the yellow one, based on my same cheap voltmeter. If I did these kind of test and turned on those electrical things, it'll drop to level Red on my voltmeter. I don't have alternator wirings upgrade. But they both work fine with no problems. I am very aware of the electrical loads on the SVX's especially driving at nights when it idles. Amazingly, if I turn on all the electrical things (wipers w/ rear, defroster, AC on high, step my brake) on my Nissan and Mazda, my cheap voltmter will still remain at the "ok" level not the best. So I just think the SVX alternators are not strong enough for its electrical loads especially when the alternator gets hot.
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  #15  
Old 08-10-2006, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benebob
Then again, I'm guessing you're loosing weight the old fashion way rather than taking it off your car.




It is SO much easier to take it off the car!
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