Electrical Issue; steering related

hey i gotta 92 and everytime i turn the steering wheel some kind of electrical short occurs. Its not a fused wire that is shorting out because i get all kinds of warning lights and then the battery blows out. So there is obviously no fuse involved. Ive gone through two batteries so far...

has anyone ever heard of such a problem???????

[nipper]

The only thing that rotates with any power in it is the horn, the airbag has its own circuit. the horn grounds out out the circuit to honk the horn. Thers is also something called a clock spring. Now its possible the spring is broken and causing the short. Thers is nothing else ther in the column. I would also look under the dash at the steering shaft and see if anything is rubbing there.
Not to worry you, but if you also have an airbag, well i would have somone look at this thing sooner or later if it was me.

nipper

[q2driver]

Originally Posted by simonton

hey i gotta 92 and everytime i turn the steering wheel some kind of electrical short occurs. Its not a fused wire that is shorting out because i get all kinds of warning lights and then the battery blows out. So there is obviously no fuse involved. Ive gone through two batteries so far...

has anyone ever heard of such a problem???????

It sounds like you have a short from a cut wire/insulation in the steering column. Years ago, I had a Legacy that had similar problems and it ended up being a wire bundle in the steering column that had worn through the insulation and was shorting on the steering structure. Not an easy problem to trace down. It has to be a big current wire between the ignition switch and the battery. Good Luck.

Dave

i pulled afew suspect wires away from the moving steering column... and the problem seemed to be fixed...

i didnt drive the car for a month.. now the battery is dead again...

i jumped the car... waited a while, and turned the wheel and nothing bad happened... i drove it around the blok and everything seemed okay..

i turned it off, and let it sit for a day.. no lights or anything visibly was on...
next day... battery's dead again...

I thought maybe the alternator belt may have been lose or something... slipping when i turn the wheel.. or too tight maybe.. but nope.. its fine.. and i just recently had work done on the alternator so i know that its working just fine--- there must be a short somewhere else...
I dont really have any money to take this to a mechanic... i have extremely limited experience working with this sort of thing.. my only electrical experience goes as far as stereo installations and alternator replacements... i have no idea what a clockspring is or where to find it... but i can figure **** out though.. i got the 6 volumes of subaru service manuals, and im ready to do whatever it takes to fix this ****.. because ive got to sell it. my tools are limited to no lift.. but available wires, strippers, and circuit testers....

can anyone help me out by suggesting where to start? or maybe if u really think its the clockspring.. tell me where i can find info about that?

[Beav]

I can tell you about the 'clockspring' and why I highly doubt it is your issue. The clockspring is a coil of flat multi-circuit tape, housed in a plastic shell. This allows several circuits to spin with the steering wheel, notably the horn, cruise control and SRS (supplemental restraint system.) Two things can happen if any part of it fails - the horn won't work or the SRS won't pass its own self-test that occurs every time the ignition is switched on. If the SRS fails its self-test the SRS warning lamp will illuminate. The horn circuit is a ground0side switch and if it shorts to ground it makes a horn noise...

You may just stick your head under there and check to see how loose your ignition switch is, it could very well be the culprit. And until you figure it out you can disconnect the battery so the car starts in the morning.

Proper way to find a parasitic draw - disconnect one battery cable and attach a digital volt/ohm/amp meter lead to it and the other lead to the battery. Turn the meter
on and set it to 'amps' and position the leads accordingly. Turn the ignition key 'off' as well as all accessories. leave the door open but block the jamb switch so the interior lamps don't come on - this will allow you access to the fuse box later. Leave the car sit for 45 minutes to ensure all electronic devices have 'gone to sleep'. Check the meter for an indication of draw, anything over 50ma is too much. If there is a draw in excess of 50ma, begin removing fuses from the interior fuse block - not the underhood panel - checking the meter after removing each one. When the reading drops you've found the culprit circuit. If the reading doesn't drop, proceed to the underhood fuse box.

If the reading wasn't above 50ma you either have an intermittent draw or a bad cell in your battery.

[Motorsport-SVX]

One thing that happened to me once was
the steering shaft near the steering rack unit
under the car was catching some wires on the
rack electronic control unit itself intermittently.
Youll have to get the car in the air and use a drop
light to view the area.
Have someone slowly turn the steering wheel back
and forth while someone watches under the car.

okay... still no fixy..

i went out, jumped the car. let it sit for about a half hour to charge. I did not disconnect the battery when i turned the car off. I forgot to. I came back out about an hour later and the car is dead again.

next day, I jump it, let the battery charge and disconnect the battery... it started to rain so i left it disconnected over night and came back to it the next day to find that the battery did hold the charge and started the car again.

so this time i turned off the car, and disconnected the battery, blocked the jamb so it thinks the door is closed and connected my circuit tester. I get 3 mA. maybe im using the tester wrong, but i doubt it. only 3 mA??? how does that kill my battery after an hour?

to make sure the tester was working, i went and pulled my door handle to release the jamb and i turned all the lights on in the car with the battery still disconnected. I went and attatched the tester and got 15 mA.

------------------------------------

what were you saying about the ignition switch? what part do i check for looseness?? and where exactly is the ignition switch located... that probly sounds like a dip**** question but I dont know that much about this...
---------

there is a possiblity that theres a dead cell in my battery i know, but i need to know what killed it in the first place before i go and stick another new battery in. my first battery went out when i was away at school. The car was driven once a month while i was gone, and one day did not start. I found that the battery had somehow blown and was completely dead, unable to take a charge. I jumped it a few times to drive it around and see if it would take the charge, and discovered the steering issue, everytime i turned the wheel it died.
So i took it in, had the alternator fixed up, and got a new battery. The problem seemed to be fixed, but it became painfully obvious that it definately wasnt as my dash lights lit up every turn i made of the wheel a few days after putting in my new battery. then one day it completely ****ted out, my gauges all went crazy, my speedometer was shooting up and down at no proportion to the twitching of my tach, and i wasnt even moving... then as i desparately tried to turn off the busy road, the turn of the wheel killed it, i was stranded in the intersection ( definately should not have been driving the car, i know... ) i pushed it home, and there it sits.

since then as i mentioned above, i pulled away some dangling wires that were resting on the steering column; a few of them had some old tape around a piece of chewed up tubing ( that plastic scaley crap - not the insulation, i didnt notice any chewed insulation )... it seemed like wishful thinking that this was the problem, but since then every time ive turned my wheel i have not experienced any shorts, but now this problem exists with my dying battery!! ****!

[Trevor]

You appear to understand what you are doing in this regard. Any current check should made by removing a battery terminal and inserting an ammeter at that point, so that every circuit is tested. 1. Did you do this?

(Edit PS -- Having now back tracked within the post I see that Beav gave you some good advice that you appear to have been following. However you must confirm that you have done exactly all that has been suggested so that we no precisely where we are up to. I also note that you had work done on the alternator and you have also mentioned flashing dash lights. 2. Was the fault occurring prior to this work? 3. What was done? The thought is, did someone mess up?)

While making the check, have someone watch the meter, or arrange it so that you can see it, then move everything you suspect in order to try and produce the fault which comes and goes.

A logical conclusion based on what you have reported, the fact that you have gone to a lot of trouble in doing so is indeed helpful, is that the damaged and taped up wiring you discovered is the suspect area. It could be assumed that a pervious owner messed something up. Is there any indication that extra connections have at one time been made in this area. 4. You have reported that you found no exposed wires but make another very careful inspection and advise again on ANYTHING which looks odd. Obviously the fault is intermittent, so you must take into account anything which could move and cause a short circuit.

The strange thing is that no fuses have blown. 5. Has a previous owner messed with things and installed over rated fuses or wire links or something to substitute a fuse?

Edit.--- P.S. 6. How have you been charging the battery and ensuring a full charge, i.e. as per next post.

The ignition switch and associated wiring is a possible area, but you must trouble shoot in logical order and eliminate what has been suggested as a first consideration. Confirm having checked all six points as above and we can proceed further. Meantime do not become too frustrated.

[rbalach]

Regarding the battery not holding charge overnight, it looks like you are not charging the battery enough. 1/2hr with the car idling quite possibly won't fully charge a dead battery. You could hook up a charger to the battery overnight to make sure it is properly and fully charged. If you don't have a charger, most auto parts stores will charge batteries for free.
Good luck

[Earthworm]

At idle the battery will barely charge at all.

okay, then i definately did not give my battery a sufficient charge. that may explain a bit.
but in answer to Trevor;
1. yes i tried removing a terminal and putting in an ammeter and only found a draw of 3 mA on the battery when the car is off.

2. The alternator work was done after the recent electrical mystery in an attempt to solve it. I had it rebuilt this past december after the batteries ( i used to have one in the trunk ) mysteriously died. When the two batteries were not taking a charge, thats when i noticed turning the wheel had a severe effect on them.

3. The alternator was rebuilt (I've got a receipt here that reads: REMAN ALTERNATOR and L REMN CV COMPL AS... the charging system and starter draw were checked, and the alternator asssembly was removed and replaced.) I removed my wiring and 2nd battery in hopes that the mistake was on my hands, and got a new battery. A few weeks after this, the gauges went nuts and lights started to flash after turning the wheel ( first time i turned it a got a battery light on my dash ) and it died again while i was making a turn.

so what i conlclude from 2 and 3 is that the old alternator and batteries died because of this short, which was not fixed when the new alternator and battery were put in.

4. the wires i looked at definately seemed shady... since i've had the car ive had an inconisistent check engine light. the dealer i bought it from told me it was an 02 sensor. 2 years later I never really dealt with that problem (had too many tranny problems to be really concerned about it, and i dont drive it very often)
well i looked at my wiring chart and found out that the wires dangling over the steering column are : power steering solenoid, and 02 sensor 2 (if you have the service manual, see section 6 page 87: connectors B16 and B17 (area B3). There was a plastic clip near the engine that held them above the steering column that had broken off, leaving the wires to rest on the moving column. Now I know this probably sounds like the obvious problem, I suppose im just skeptical these days, especially since it took me like 5 minutes to find these wires. And I have not yet found any open insulation. But they are still attatched to the car and covered in grease... can i just cut them out to examine them and then crimp them back together?? or what is the proper procedure for replacing wires in the engine compartment?

5. as far as i know the previous owner has not played with the fuse box, ive had my head down there quite a few times while i was working on installing my own little electric appliances (which are all now removed in an attemp to find the problem) but I'll double check.

6. apparently I have definately not been charging the battery enough. I dont know a mechanic that'll not charge me for that, but ive got a pickup i could put the battery in and drive around for a few days.


lastly; when i was working on this last, my neighbor came up to me and told me he once had an issue similar to this that involved what he called a membrane behind the dash. he said something wasnt lining up right and was shorting out his battery. If there is anything like this on the svx this is likely my problem. I once removed my entire dashboard and added a large amount of sound absorbing/reflecting material to block out the engine sounds from the compartment. I put this crap all over the car, behind every single piece of trim ( damn you should have heard the stereo i had in there. Not obnoxiously loud bass or anything, just the purest quality... im so sad i have to let this car go )
I know I would have been looking for electrical connections. I did this so long ago I honelstly dont remember what i really looked like back there. I do remember making a lot of holes in the material as to allow the components back there to function properly. I doubt this is the problem though because almost a year passed without incident after I added this stuff back there. Anyting is possible at this point though...

[Suby Fan]

YOU NEED A NEW BATTERY thats all just a new battery... they dont like being fully drained like you did when you didnt drive it for a month... so it wont hold a charge any more... buy a new battery in before you do any thing elce

Originally Posted by Suby Fan

YOU NEED A NEW BATTERY thats all just a new battery... they dont like being fully drained like you did when you didnt drive it for a month... so it wont hold a charge any more... buy a new battery in before you do any thing elce

thats the obvious solution that is clearly not the only problem... as i realized after dropping 90 bucks on a nice duralast battery, which then died two weeks later... now you're probably going to tell me then that its the alternator, but if you read carefully above then you will see that i actually replaced my battery and my alternator simultaneously knowing that a dead batttery can lead to a bad alternator just as a bad alternator can lead to a dead battery.

[Suby Fan]

well then if you purchaced a battery recently then that battery still has a waranty your first step is to get a new battery

[Trevor]

Item 4.

Simply push, move wriggle the wiring while measuring current drain with the ignition on. This should show up an intermittent fault in this area. I have already suggested this procedure. As you report that the problem is exactly related to steering movement, is this not the most suspect area

It is apparent that your wiring has been the subject of many mods, so who knows? Sorry but I can be of no further assistance from this end of the planet. You must use the advice on hand as logically as possible.

Edit P.S. The issue has become more than confusing. Also take into account a possibly faulty battery from new, as well as faulty work relating to the alternator !!!!!!!!??????. You have my sympathy in all of this. *<)

Best of good fortune, Trevor.