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  #16  
Old 01-27-2006, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xturboexpress
If after the TB the air paths cross again, like inside the manifold
That only happens when the IRIS valve is open. When it is shut, there's no cross flow of intake air from one side to another.

-Chike
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  #17  
Old 01-27-2006, 12:32 PM
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*post deleted due to erroneus content*

Thanks SVXfiles for clearing it up.
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File Type: png myxabox.PNG (6.2 KB, 291 views)
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Last edited by NikFu S.; 01-27-2006 at 02:48 PM.
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  #18  
Old 01-27-2006, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikFu S.
I thought you guys knew the right hand butterfly was for cruise control and doesn't open under normal driving?...

I'm pretty sure that the butterflies open and close as a pair.
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  #19  
Old 01-27-2006, 02:39 PM
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Rather than setting up a dual runner, have you cosidered a revised single runner layout? I think there is enough room between the tranny and the tranny tunnel to run a single pipe straight into the throttle body plenum from below. It would come up at about 30 deg angle from horizontal into a plenum or y-pipe. Its basically the same layout that you are showing but with a single pipe that can split into a "y" just before the throttle bodies.
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SVX Mods: ND iridium spark plugs, Impreza RS fpr, afr tuned to 13.2:1 using a custom MAF bypass, custom exhaust, WRX 5MT w/ STi RA 1st-4th gear & stock WRX 5th gear, Exedy 13 lb flywheel & Sport Clutch, STi Group N tranny & engine mounts, urethane spacers in rear subframe, rear diff mounts, and pitch stopper, SVX Sport Strut Springs (185f/150r), custom 19 mm rear swaybar, urethane swaybar mounts, Rota Torque 17x8", 225/45-17 Proxes 4 tires, Axxis Deluxe Plus organic brake pads.
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  #20  
Old 01-27-2006, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbtoloczko
Rather than setting up a dual runner, have you cosidered a revised single runner layout? I think there is enough room between the tranny and the tranny tunnel to run a single pipe straight into the throttle body plenum from below. It would come up at about 30 deg angle from horizontal into a plenum or y-pipe. Its basically the same layout that you are showing but with a single pipe that can split into a "y" just before the throttle bodies.
I was thinking this might be the ULTIMATE throttle bypass mod, especially for the OBD2 cars, for which there is no chip.
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  #21  
Old 01-27-2006, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbtoloczko
Rather than setting up a dual runner, have you cosidered a revised single runner layout? I think there is enough room between the tranny and the tranny tunnel to run a single pipe straight into the throttle body plenum from below. It would come up at about 30 deg angle from horizontal into a plenum or y-pipe. Its basically the same layout that you are showing but with a single pipe that can split into a "y" just before the throttle bodies.
I was thinking this might be the ULTIMATE throttle bypass mod , especially for the OBD2 cars, for which there is no chip.
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  #22  
Old 01-27-2006, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbtoloczko
I'm pretty sure that the butterflies open and close as a pair.
Yeah forget what I said. Apparently I have been mislead to a great degree and only one of my valves opens as was stated long ago.

Makes you wonder what my car is capable of if everything is working....
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  #23  
Old 01-27-2006, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svxfiles
With 1/2 as much air travelling through our stock MAF, it would not be any where near maxed out, so could we just use some form of voltage transformer to double the reading so that the ECU uses the stock, or modified timing maps?
Now, if some smart guy, Harvey, LAN, Mychailo, Mark(5), can tell us which MAF to use, and how to wire it, all we have to do then is plumb it!
Ok, how about this, we use TWO stock MAFs, and each one reads 1/2 the airflow.
So if a each side reads, say 3 volts, how can we combine them to read 6 volts.
Would it have the correct timing maps?
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  #24  
Old 01-27-2006, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svxfiles
Ok, how about this, we use TWO stock MAFs, and each one reads 1/2 the airflow.
So if a each side reads, say 3 volts, how can we combine them to read 6 volts.
Would it have the correct timing maps?
Would you want them to read six or three volts? Yes, they will only be reading half as much air than is actually going in, however timing can/should be left to the ECU while fuel control be left to the driver. This way, timing will be more advanced than usual due to the lowered voltage and you'd get the fuel you'd need by manual control (Ex: SAFC). Sounds interesting!

BTW: Has anyone installed an Apexi ITC on these cars to control timing?

In the meantime, I'm going to the route in the diagram pic I posted. I just finished taking some more measurements and it is going to be a TIGHT fit. Only 5.5 - 5.75" available from the throttle body to the firewall. Two 2.5" or 2.75" diametered intake piping could fit but they will have to be VERY snug. The passenger side throttle body piping will have to make a very sharp turn but the outside of this piping can be made smooth. It is just talk now though until some pics are posted. I'm thinking about what I can get at Home Depot to scrounge up to make a draft of the actual piping that needs to be made. I'll present this to the shop I mentioned earlier or some other guys I have in mind to see what can be made up.

It would be cool if anyone else would try the dual mafs and such. I'm not ready to splice into any wiring....Yet! Many of you are much more advanced in this area and determining how voltages will go together to get an end result.
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  #25  
Old 01-27-2006, 05:31 PM
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  #26  
Old 01-27-2006, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myxalplyx
Would you want them to read six or three volts? Yes, they will only be reading half as much air than is actually going in, however timing can/should be left to the ECU while fuel control be left to the driver.
I would want them to read the "6" volts,(as an example)or the combined voltages, just like those given by the "normal" voltage, that would be given by ONE MAF, but without the maxing out, and with less air restriction!
(because it has twice the filter area, and twice the volume in the air intake tubes.
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  #27  
Old 01-27-2006, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svxfiles
I would want them to read the "6" volts,(as an example)or the combined voltages, just like those given by the "normal" voltage, that would be given by ONE MAF, but without the maxing out, and with less air restriction!
(because it has twice the filter area, and twice the volume in the air intake tubes.
If the voltage map were linear then that would work. The voltage operations becomes steeper as air levels increases, therefore you would not be able to do this mod without the help of lan!
phil
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  #28  
Old 01-27-2006, 09:06 PM
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Aha

I just found one part of the puzzle that I'd need to make this work. SVXtasy has that turbocharged SVX with a 'Y' pipe on it. I sent him an email to see if he could sell me a similar part. If not, I can use the picture to have one made up.


This piece would probably work great. The part of the 'Y' that is a single pipe diameter would be where the maf sensor would connect to. Then the 'Y' would bend and the dual pipes that connect to the throttle body could be attached to this. This 'Y' part is what I'd get a shop to put the three welds in for the vacuum hoses. Three of the vacuum hoses (Two crankcase and one coming off the transmission count as one) could be tide into welds on the 'Y' pipe.

At any rate, yeah, I think this could work. This part needs to be made. I'm sure some exhaust shop nearby can make something like this if SVXtasy isn't selling any of these pieces.

SVXtasy , if you are reading this, this is what we have been talking about via PM.
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1989 2.7ltr Subaru XT6 (AWD/Auto) 15.912@85.93mph
1996 3.3ltr SVX (AWD/Auto) 15.070@91.38mph
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Last edited by Myxalplyx; 01-27-2006 at 09:41 PM.
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  #29  
Old 01-28-2006, 11:56 AM
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Had some aluminum ducting in my garage so I cut it up to the shape I was drawing on the diagram. The aluminum will do for testing purposes to see how much power can be made. I'd rather smoother piping, silicone hoses with bends or a combo for the 2nd phase of testing since the aluminum ridges can cause turbulence but it will do for now. All I need is the 'Y' pipe connection and drill some holes in it for all the vacuum hoses to go to.



In the meantime (against popular demand), I found an adapter in my garage to the Maf sensor so I went to Autozone to pick up a large air filter. Yep, ghetto (Sorry Chike) but I want to see the airflow difference between this and the stock setup with the panel filter. I understand that airflow may be more at the cost of worst filtering. I also understand that even if filtering is the same or better that more hot air is not necessarily better than less cool air from outside the engine bay. I've been searching and searching but could not find evidence that it is necessarily worse, even though it makes sense that is 'should' be.

So I put the air filter on the Maf adapter I found and got this intake together. Air filter was $25.00 at Autozone (I saved the box and just misplaced it but I don't think anyone would want the part #). Fit is REALLY tight but functional. Drove around a little bit and it sounds really nice.

I need to stop by the dealership and pick up my items out of my RX turbo since it is R.I.P. If I'm not all dressy tonight, I'll do some G-Tech runs and test the difference between the two tonight. It is not the actual 1/4 mile time and mph that counts. It is the difference between the two that matters (if there is a difference). It will show if the hot air intake is bad and if so, how bad.

The surface area of the cone filter is larger than the STi panel air filter (not that that means anything right?). I had set the cone style air filter on top of one end of the STi air filter and rolled it to the other side. I started this with the Maf sensor being upright. By the time the roll was completely on the other side of the STi panel filter, the Maf sensor was almost to the bottom of the cone air filter. If the surface area was the same, I'd think it would have completed a whole roll before getting to the other side. Also, the cheapo filter has a hole on top of it (this is the only kind I'd use) allowing for even more airflow.

Remember, this is for more horsepower/torque no matter where in the power band. Of course the Maf is maxed out but it doesn't mean power can't be pushed to the max throughout the other parts of the power band. Ok, I'll shut up. I need to drive for a bit.

If my stupid Pocketlogger is working ok (Chike, I talked to you about this), I can get some air measurements and state the difference in lbs per hour between the stock intake with the STi panel filter and the El Cheapo Autozone filter. Sorry if this type of intake seems insulting Chike. I got to test these things out though.

Overall, I'm still waiting to get my hands on a 'Y' pipe to complete this intake for testing at the dyno. If anyone knows anywhere on the net where someone can get this type of fitting, please post or send me a PM. I don't care if it is made out of steel, aluminum, silicone, hard rubber, etc, as long as it can be modified to fit the vacuum hoses to, to make it run. Ok, I'm done! My current setup is below:




Hey, doesn't someone make an intake like this already? Also, what is the curb weight of your car Chike? I need to be able to put this in the G-Tech.
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1997 2.2ltr Subaru Impreza Outback Sport Wagon (AWD/Auto) 13.03@100mph
1989 2.7ltr Subaru XT6 (AWD/Auto) 15.912@85.93mph
1996 3.3ltr SVX (AWD/Auto) 15.070@91.38mph
***R.I.P***
2010 RAV4 AWD Sport (13.717 @ 99.19mph )
2015 Honda Fit LX CVT (15.2 @ 90mph)

Last edited by Myxalplyx; 01-28-2006 at 12:00 PM.
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  #30  
Old 01-28-2006, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svxfiles
Our stock airbox at the throttle is allready un-equal length.
The air has to travel farther to get to the drivers side throttle body.

I have allways liked the idea of a twin air filter, twin runner intake for the SVX, as discribed by Terry McLane, years ago, and now that we know our MAFs max out at 250 hp, or so, this mod might pay off on cammed, or big block 3.3+ engines.

With 1/2 as much air travelling through our stock MAF, it would not be any where near maxed out, so could we just use some form of voltage transformer to double the reading so that the ECU uses the stock, or modified timing maps?

Perhaps a LAN chip, one stock MAF, and a twin intake, twin filter raises the NA, or SC, or NOX engine limits, for the intake components to 500 hp now?!

Now, if some smart guy, Harvey, LAN, Mychailo, Mark(5), can tell us which MAF to use, and how to wire it, all we have to do then is plumb it!

I'm assuming the custom intake and plenum chamber in gest's pic is feeding two turbos?

If you want to go with Terry McLaine idea, surely one MAF is enough, without complicating the voltage and getting two devices to feed a signal to the ECU?

It looks to be totally symmetrical, so there is no reason to assume that one half is getting more air than the other half, they should be equal.

Once the two feeder tubes are equal in length, diameter and are as smooth as each other, then reading the air flow through one of the pipes will be linearly proportional to the air the both turbos together are sucking in. And this signal will be the voltage the ECU recognises and expects if the stock MAF is used.

Taking this a step further, provided the stock maf is only "seeing" 220 hp or 230 hp as per the NA setup, then it should be possible to use the turbos to generate 440 to 460 hp without going past the max of the stock MAF, because we are now taking in twice the air volume.

Am I seeing this in an oversimplified way, or are my deductions correct?

Joe
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