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#16
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#17
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If it happens again, try to note all the symptoms one by one. Make notes as later it is very difficult to be absolutely positive of the exact original evidence. I suggest this from long experience. Intermittent faults are a real bugger. (Interested to see if that expletive is accepted here. In this part of the world it has appeared without censure in a major TV Toyota advertisement.) *<)
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! |
#18
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Confusion
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However, I agree that the fact that the car stalled, should be taken into the equation. I gather the car was idling at the time. I wonder if the alternator seized, thus imposing an extra sudden load on the engine ? However there are points against this theory. Alternatively a sudden electrical fault imposing a load on the alternator should open the altrnator fuse, unless the wiring has been modified, as has been thoughtlessly recommended here.
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! Last edited by Trevor; 03-30-2006 at 04:53 PM. Reason: Typo |
#19
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Listen, my 6mt comes almost to a stall occasionally and when this happens all the indicator lights come on. THe engine will usually catch itself and rev back up....lights go off. I guess it is the crank/cams sensors not reading rotation quick enough and actually thinking the engine has stopped
Tom |
#20
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You have now made a good point with this theory. Yes on several counts the engine management system could wrongly assume the engine has stopped, when it has not and initiate the test circuit. I wonder if anyone has found the same occurrence with the SVX? All in all this is a curly one, with many possibilities. As I said, "a real bugger!" Cheers, Trevor.
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! |
#21
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The season must be bringing the old bugs out. Hi Trevor, I've been on a bit of a sabbatical myself.
I've noticed that on longer, hi speed trips a weak crank sensor will heat soak long enough to not provide an accurate signal. The result will be stalling or surging when returning to idle. Not to be confused with the stalling experienced by the mt converts, I'm still convinced that exists as a lack of proper programming for a manual trans, i.e. no throttle dampening. Since the car started back up one can rule out alternator and battery probs. If it wasn't charging enough to keep the car running there certainly wouldn't be enough stored energy in the battery to turn the engine over. Many OEs employ a strategy that won't allow injection pulses until the engine cranks fast enough for the crank sensor (CKP) to generate 500mv. This prevents flooding the engine during cold cycle or weak battery conditions. As CKP sensors age, just like we do, actually, they become more resistant to producing energy. Heat is also a great producer of resistance. I know I dang sure don't work as hard when it's hot outside! Anyway.... A road trip longer than normal = more heat build-up than normal. An aging CKP, heat-stroking after a long workout, at idle speed, trying to stay above 500mv... If the voltage drops below the threshold the injection pulse shuts down, the engine stalls... you see where I'm going with this.
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ASE Certified Master Automotive Technician w/L1. ASE Certified Master Medium/Heavy Truck Technician. Certified EVT (Emergency Vehicle Technician) |
#22
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The Real Oil
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As always, on the basis of extensive practical experience, you have come up with the most logical answer. I have just posted in another thread, using the word "procrastinate", which here now appears to be the order of the day. This, together with the tendency for technical subjects to be continually overlorded by a not always accurate self indulgent individual, has kept me away. I suspect the same applies to you. Sincere best wishes, Trevor.
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! |
#23
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Yes, a great many times the same issues reappear. I would pity the poor horse that endures such a harsh whip, had he survived the first lashing.
When I stroll through the countryside I enjoy the walk. However, I find that as I age I take more frequent breaks during the trip. That way the hills don't seem as steep.
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ASE Certified Master Automotive Technician w/L1. ASE Certified Master Medium/Heavy Truck Technician. Certified EVT (Emergency Vehicle Technician) |
#24
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Crank sensors.
Gid'ay Mate, yes thats whats going on. To add to this, the crank sensor is an inductive/magnetic pickup. The output is dependent on speed, magnetic strength, and the number of turns on the coil.
As they age, the magnet gets weaker, so the output is weaker. Also the magnetic looses strength as it is heated, so the output is weaker. When we start in the morning the morning the magnetic is cold, so while the speed of the tooth going past, is slow , the output is high enough to fire. As you drive the magnet heats up, the sensors output goes down. So all we need now is for the tooth speed to slow down, and the output is too low to read, the engine stops. Another time that you get this is, you have been driving, you pull up to buy the news, and the engine won't start. You wait a while. and it starts up OK. The same thing, hot sensor, no output, till it cools. Harvey.
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One Arm Bloke. Tell it like it is! 95 Lsi. Bordeaux Pearl, Aust. RHD.149,000Kls Subaru BBS wheels. 97 Liberty GX Auto sedan. 320,000Kls. 04 Liberty 30R Auto Premium. 92.000kls. |
#25
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SO Ok bad Idea with the batt disconnecting thing. Just was what my dad used to do. But all his cars were old (back before all the computer mess) so I didnt know that could mess things up. Sorry If I was thinking I should have suggested that you test the voltage at the batt with a voltemeter while the car was running. But I wasnt NOT that it matters now.
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1989 Subaru XT6 130k 1992 Subaru SVX 120k 1993 Ford Probe 30mpg 213k 1989 Subaru XT6 150k All good and running Last edited by spinn360; 03-31-2006 at 08:34 PM. |
#26
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Friend Beav,
As predicted the lord has donned motarboard. May you now remain, if not lashed, fully informed. I will join you in your walk, Trevor. *<( Spin360, Your thoughtfulness and message will I trust be appreciated.
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! |
#27
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I find it interesting that the alternator lamp did not light. I'm currently (pun intended) having a similar problem with my SVX. The abs light comes on, and the car barely starts, but the battery indicator stays off. I checked the voltage from the alternator to the battery and it was only 8.61 volts! As I went thru the trouble shooting procedures outlined in the SVX electrical manual, I end up at "check IC Regulator", not "check alternator". They say that the battery/alternator light should glow when the voltage is below 12, and the alternator is at fault, and conclude that the fault is in the Ignition coil regulator. Now if I only knew where the ignition coil regulator was, I could fix this problem!
Cappy - who knows just enough SVXstuff to be dangerous
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Cappy '94 LSi Barcelona Red 158,000 miles '92 LS-L Dark Teal 47,000 miles '95 Olds Acheiva 104,000 miles '85 Audi 4000 135,000 miles '87 Supra 129,000 miles - 2nd JDM engine |
#28
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From exactly from where and also when, in respect of engine running, are you reading 8.61 volts ? What voltage do you read directly from the battery, engine running at say 2,ooo RPM and also wth the ignition turned off ? A fauly rectifier unit within the alternator is a possible cause. An AC component on line can caurse strange outcomes as a result of blocking diodes being present in circuits.
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! Last edited by Trevor; 04-07-2006 at 03:57 PM. Reason: Para added |
#29
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Hey Trevor,
I measured the 8.61 volts between the output terminal of the alternator and the negative terminal of the battery, also between the output terminal of the alternator and a ground on the car, plus the output terminal of the alternator and the body of the alternator. All of this was done with the engine running at about 1700RPM's. I also measured 8.61 volts between the battery terminals at 1700RPM's and with the car off. Both were 8.61 volts. I put the battery on a trickle carge overnight, and retested. This time I got 11.98 volts on every test. I haven't driven the car since. I checked all the connections and terminals, including the secondary coils that I could reach. They're all tight. Thanks, Cappy
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Cappy '94 LSi Barcelona Red 158,000 miles '92 LS-L Dark Teal 47,000 miles '95 Olds Acheiva 104,000 miles '85 Audi 4000 135,000 miles '87 Supra 129,000 miles - 2nd JDM engine |
#30
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! |
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