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  #46  
Old 12-15-2004, 10:19 AM
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want to know what defines competition.... look at any marketing/business text book.

It is NOT related to how similarly the products are. it is completely based on what demographic is looking to buy what, and what else they consider when making a purchase. when someone is looking at a $120k porsche. I highly doubt they'll look at a $70k chevy. similar or not, other things go with a porsche... like a 50 year history of providing some of the best cars out there, and image, and better engineered car.

and about the retro thing... ford just followed chryslers initial success with it. They can't even come up with the original idea, to go retro.
and considering a decent percentage of upper admin at chrysler came from GM... you can't argue against them too hard can you shadow
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  #47  
Old 12-15-2004, 10:20 AM
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My point exactly! Thanks Greg.
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  #48  
Old 12-15-2004, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PA_SVX
Shadow, I think you missed my point. I was agreeing with you on the price issue. That is not an excuse, just a truth, you get more performance for the money with the Vette. As for the two cars both being 2 seat sports cars, what Allen was saying was that they are shopped by different clientel. Most 911 people never looked at the Vette regardless of performance. just as most Vette buyers never considered the 911, even if they could afford it.
My point actually was not referring to you. I just used your comment sorta as an example. I agree that the Porsche and Vette target two different buyers...and that just enhances the point. It's interesting to see what happens with "premium" car buyers when a "non-premium" car outdoes their faved car. Thus is life in the sports car world i suppose. I deal with this problem with my car because of the damn 2003+ Mustang Cobra. It's just a half-a-hair faster (stock for stock), and cheaper. Yeah it's a piece of junk, but does it really matter? Not in what counts. I just take comfort in the fact that I could never love a mustang like I do my TA, it's a night vs. day (or stylish sports car vs. me-too! car) feeling.
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  #49  
Old 12-15-2004, 10:45 AM
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Shadow I think you nailed that point. The Camaro/Firebird of the late 80's early 90's smoked the rustang in performance, interior room, fit and finish, as well as ride, but cost more, so it sold less. The new issue of Automobile Magazine compares a $27k 2005 rustang GT vs a $26k 2005 Subaru WRX and besides posting the slowest 0-60 time EVER for a WRX (6.0) it points out the rustang will out sell the WRX. That's because the $19k V-6 solid axel pos rustang will be the new champion of the secretaries and hairdressers of the world. Not to slight those of that profession, but the old V-6 rustang was not called a hairdressers dream for nothing.
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  #50  
Old 12-15-2004, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by drivemusicnow

and considering a decent percentage of upper admin at chrysler came from GM... you can't argue against them too hard can you shadow
Ummm....Bob Lutz came from Chysler, now is GM. I think you might have it the other way around. BTW, I met Bob Lutz last year. Very interesting guy.
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  #51  
Old 12-15-2004, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PA_SVX
Sidewinder, you might want to rethink the T-Bird comment. They sold to the intial demand, people who just had to have one, then demand dried up. Nobody wants them anymore and production is scheduled for termination. The PT Cruiser sold like hot cakes, then Chrysler got greedy and started making them 3 shifts a day. The result? $5k give backs to get them off the lots. You can't oversell niche vehicles.

You're right. The T-bird wasn't as big as I thought.

The SSR is doing well? I've not seen a single one on the road. Are you sure?
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  #52  
Old 12-15-2004, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PA_SVX
Shadow I think you nailed that point. The Camaro/Firebird of the late 80's early 90's smoked the rustang in performance, interior room, fit and finish, as well as ride, but cost more, so it sold less. . . . That's because the $19k V-6 solid axel pos rustang will be the new champion of the secretaries and hairdressers of the world. Not to slight those of that profession, but the old V-6 rustang was not called a hairdressers dream for nothing.

And the Fox (87-93) Mustang (corrected your spelling error ) outsold the Camaro and Firebird combined. That helped create the death of the Camaro and Firebird. Laugh it up, but there is serious demand for a V6-powered sports car. It's sporty enough for those who buy it.
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  #53  
Old 12-15-2004, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sidewinder
It's sporty enough for those who buy it.
Absolutely right. And that point renders all other arguments irrelevant.

dcb
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  #54  
Old 12-15-2004, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shadow248


AHH there's always an excuse. It's fun to watch Porsche fans cry after their hero was outdone by a chevy. To me, it's expected. To you, it's impossible? Get used to it.

BTW, using the "bang for the buck" argument only makes the Porsche look worse. Showing that you are getting no more for alot more money.
your definition of "alot more" is different than a Porsche buyer's. alot more power and cubic inches? sure. alot more steering feel (Vette steering "numb by comparison" per C&D), braking, handling, fit and finish, resale value, quality engineering for decades? nope.
GM's has supposedly improved quality in the last couple years based on the growing competition from overseas, but Porsche has been proving their products for decades on racetracks and rally courses.
outdone by Chevy?

i'll never be able to afford a new Porsche, but i'd take a used Porsche over a new Vette anyday.
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  #55  
Old 12-15-2004, 02:09 PM
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I Love em! The commercial i like is the one where they dubbed Steve McQueen in!!! I think the car looks sweeet!!!
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  #56  
Old 12-15-2004, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SVXer95

Ummm....Bob Lutz came from Chysler, now is GM. I think you might have it the other way around. BTW, I met Bob Lutz last year. Very interesting guy.
Ahh, but if you had gone to the Chrysler day at school, you would have seen that of the 8 or so "important people" that were there, i believe 7 of them started at GM. Many of the top rungs at Chrysler are filled by people who started at GM, and got sick of the company atmosphere.

Bob Lutz is a very interesting guy.. I read his book, however maybe he'll come visit KU again at some point.
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  #57  
Old 12-15-2004, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sidewinder



And the Fox (87-93) Mustang (corrected your spelling error ) outsold the Camaro and Firebird combined. That helped create the death of the Camaro and Firebird. Laugh it up, but there is serious demand for a V6-powered sports car. It's sporty enough for those who buy it.
Are you including the 4cyl 87-93 Mustang in the sales numbers (which I believe probably about half of them sold during that time were)? Maybe that's got something to do with the high sales
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  #58  
Old 12-15-2004, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BurgundyBeast


Are you including the 4cyl 87-93 Mustang in the sales numbers (which I believe probably about half of them sold during that time were)? Maybe that's got something to do with the high sales
Yeah. It's total Mustang sales.

From that perspective, a large group of 4 cylinder Mustangs destroyed the Camaro and Firebird.
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  #59  
Old 12-15-2004, 06:24 PM
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Back on topic...

Saw my first '05 Mustang GT today in the DC metro area in a dark silver color. The thing looked HOT and the rumble from the dual exhausts was beautiful! I think Ford hit a home run on this one...

-Chike
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  #60  
Old 12-15-2004, 06:26 PM
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That's not what the guys from TopGear thought
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