Engine won't crank over some times.

[Dessertrunner]

Okay Ikke ask me how I solved my starter problem and I thought it best that we work his problem through on the forum so it may help other. I think it was Trevor who said start at the begining and look at the problem from the each step and logically.
The wiring is very simple to the starter and should be easy to trace the problem through. I need to understand if the car is totally dead when you try to start it or it just clicks?
Tony

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Dessertrunner

Okay Ikke ask me how I solved my starter problem and I thought it best that we work his problem through on the forum so it may help other. I think it was Trevor who said start at the begining and look at the problem from the each step and logically.
The wiring is very simple to the starter and should be easy to trace the problem through. I need to understand if the car is totally dead when you try to start it or it just clicks?
Tony

Greetings Tony,

You are taking the correct approach. I hope you have volt meter, or a multi meter with a voltage scale to cover twelve volts, the nearest range usually being twenty volts? A cheap meter ex China/Asia etc is fine.

Make a test lamp. A twelve volt bulb/globe in a holder/fitting of any sort with wires attached will do, and the higher the wattage of the bulb the better. The idea is to draw enough current to show a voltage drop in the supply circuit. If possible terminate the leads with a pair of crocodile/alligator clips, big enough to attach to automotive size terminals.

!. If you have a meter, test the battery voltage, which should be slightly over twelve volts. If you have no meter, you should be able to confirm a good battery by turning on your headlights.

2. Connect the test lamp across the battery and observe how bright it is.
Try to start the car and see if the lamp dims excessively. If you have a meter, measure the fall in voltage.

Identify and access both the solenoid connection and main battery connection on the starter motor.

3. Attach the test lamp to ground and the solenoid terminal. Try to start the car and observe if the light is as bright as when direct across the battery.

4. If good and bright, connect it to the main starter connection and again observe.

In all of this you will be testing for intermittent operation as you have reported, so you must do several tests and demonstrate the fault.

I hope you have become annoyed at me covering everything so simply and are way ahead of me.

Report back on each test and exactly what you have been able to learn. The next step will be to locate where a voltage drop is occurring, provided you have been able to prove same. If not, the starter motor will be suspect.

Good hunting, Trevor.

Edit P.S. I appreciate that with everything not easy to get at, you have a more difficult job than I have in simply giving instructions. !!!!!! *<)

[Dessertrunner]

Trevor I have notice a couple of different sysptoms which should help guide us to close in on the problem. What we need to know is the following:-
1 When the car doesn't start hold the ignation in the crank position and look at the dash lights. At this time the radio, clock etc lights should be out but the dash lights should be still bright indicating the ECU still has power.
I expect that we can use this and the cruise control to tell the problem eg if the neutral/park switch in the transmission is causing the problem you can tell by putting the cruise control on and turning the ignation on with the engine stopped and then move the gear stick from neturel/park into a gear. The cruse control relay under the dash above the glove box will click in and out as the gear change is moved from a gear to nuetral.
Tony

[Manarius]

If it just clicks when it starts, I'd go with the solenoids in the starter or the parking-interlock mechanism. There's no need to make a test light, get a voltmeter - whatever.

[Ikkewil]

Originally Posted by Dessertrunner

1 When the car doesn't start hold the ignation in the crank position and look at the dash lights. At this time the radio, clock etc lights should be out but the dash lights should be still bright indicating the ECU still has power.
I expect that we can use this and the cruise control to tell the problem eg if the neutral/park switch in the transmission is causing the problem you can tell by putting the cruise control on and turning the ignation on with the engine stopped and then move the gear stick from neturel/park into a gear. The cruse control relay under the dash above the glove box will click in and out as the gear change is moved from a gear to nuetral.
Tony

Hello Tony and Trevor and thank youvery much for the support shown, please forgive my limits on technical terms.
As Tony wrote, upon attempting ignition, all the lights in and outside the car go dim, but the dash is still fine.
And doing the "cruise control test", everything is as Tony reported, i hear distinct "clicks" when shifting on neutral. I have not taken the time to do the full electrical pathway test as Trevor suggested, but if needed to gather more info, i will.
As i posted in the other thread (strange electrical problem) the battery is new and works perfect, and the electric starter has been replaced less than a year ago, without solving the problem.
Hopefully with the two posts i provided you with all the info you needed in order to be able to help me, but i'm ready to do more studies and reasearches until i find the solution.
Thank you very much,
Ikke

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Ikkewil

Hello Tony and Trevor and thank youvery much for the support shown, please forgive my limits on technical terms.
As Tony wrote, upon attempting ignition, all the lights in and outside the car go dim, but the dash is still fine.
And doing the "cruise control test", everything is as Tony reported, i hear distinct "clicks" when shifting on neutral. I have not taken the time to do the full electrical pathway test as Trevor suggested, but if needed to gather more info, i will.
As i posted in the other thread (strange electrical problem) the battery is new and works perfect, and the electric starter has been replaced less than a year ago, without solving the problem.
Hopefully with the two posts i provided you with all the info you needed in order to be able to help me, but i'm ready to do more studies and reasearches until i find the solution.
Thank you very much,
Ikke

You say "upon attempting ignition, all the lights in and outside the car go dim, but the dash is still fine."

I presume you are saying that, if you have all the lights in and outside the car when switched on, they all go dim when you turn the key to operate the starter. If so, this is a clear indication that full battery volts are not available on line, when a substantial current drain is applied. Faulty battery, not fully charged or poor battery earth or positive connection are the obvious causes. Others include faulty fuse box connections, faulty fuse link connections.

What do you mean by "but the DASH is still fine" i.e. without the main lights on? Do Gauges operate OK, dash illumination not dim, trouble lights normal. I can only surmise that lighting requiring a low current is not affected.

I gather the problem is intermittent, please confirm, and if so report any repeatable conditions which produce the problem.

Please understand that an exact and accurate picture is called for, if one is to assist rather than a convoluted thread of information.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Manarius

If it just clicks when it starts, I'd go with the solenoids in the starter or the parking-interlock mechanism. There's no need to make a test light, get a voltmeter - whatever.

N.B. As has been pointed out here many times by both Beav and myself, a high impedance volt meter will not show up resistance in a circuit which will otherwise affect an item which will draw current. There IS every reason to use a test light.