A REAL speech from a true patriot. - Page 2

sicksubie · #16 10-13-2007, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

A true patriot is the embodiment of the American spirit, that which the nation was built, not that which builds other nations..

I agree 100%. We should not be in the business of nation building (Iraq).

Manarius · #17 10-13-2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sicksubie

Honestly, stay away from supporting Olbermann. He is a proven bufoon who is looked upon with distaste from intelligent people from both sides. I aknowledge our differences of opinion and the fact that we can talk about them is just one of the things that make this country great, but agree with more credible people than Olbermann.

Olbermann's far more credible than any of the far off in Right field media people. I'll support Olbermann only as far as I can trust what he says - and as it seems right now, I can trust what he says because he's pretty much always right.

mohrds · #18 10-13-2007, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

Post some sources on where he is incorrect, and we can look over them.

I have a better idea, instead of wasting my time, why don't you look up his sources of "Facts" that he spews. I hear a "According to..." and "Which has already been established..." and "Everyone knows..." many times each minute with no information on his sources. Hard to research out what everyone already knows...

All these wackos (and I include O'Reily, Limbaugh, and others in this, this isn't just a liberal thing) should be required to provide a bibliography of each speech they make. I call them speeches because that's what they are. They are not editorials and especially not news...

Doug

Landshark · #19 10-13-2007, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mohrds

All these wackos (and I include O'Reily, Limbaugh, and others in this, this isn't just a liberal thing) should be required to provide a bibliography of each speech they make. I call them speeches because that's what they are. They are not editorials and especially not news...

Doug

no wai! if you don't like Olbermann, you MUST be one of the sheep that follow Limbaugh, O'Reilly, and Coulter.

mohrds · #20 10-13-2007, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Landshark

no wai! if you don't like Olbermann, you MUST be one of the sheep that follow Limbaugh, O'Reilly, and Coulter.

I don't even know who Coulter is...

I guess I'm not much of a sheep...

sicksubie · #21 10-13-2007, 04:03 PM

Ann Coulter... The woman who thinks jews should be "perfected" and become Christians.

Say that on public TV and you are sure to win a lot of fans. Not to mention the Jewish talk show host who invited you on his show. Not cool

NikFu S. · #22 10-13-2007, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mohrds

I have a better idea, instead of wasting my time, why don't you look up his sources of "Facts" that he spews. I hear a "According to..." and "Which has already been established..." and "Everyone knows..." many times each minute with no information on his sources. Hard to research out what everyone already knows...

I spent about an hour and a half doing this and made a huge post but had so many windows open accidentally hit the back button and lost it all.

His facts check out.

Here is a transcript of that first video:
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1019-24.htm

I challenge anyone here to pick out any one verse and I will back it up. If you can't do it, take a seat.

mohrds · #23 10-13-2007, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

I spent about an hour and a half doing this and made a huge post but had so many windows open accidentally hit the back button and lost it all.

His facts check out.

Here is a transcript of that first video:
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1019-24.htm

I challenge anyone here to pick out any one verse and I will back it up. If you can't do it, take a seat.

Easy:

We have a long and painful history of ignoring the prophecy attributed to Benjamin Franklin that “those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

Historical examples, please that meet the definition of Liberty from that period. Here is how Liberty is defined by Thomas Jefferson:
Thomas Jefferson Defined it in the "Declaration of The Rights of Man and The Citizen" as: "Liberty consists in the freedom to do everything which injures no one else; hence the exercise of the natural rights of each man has no limits except those which assure to the other members of the society the enjoyment of the same rights. These limits can only be determined by law."

Happy searching

NikFu S. · #24 10-14-2007, 03:18 AM

What exactly do you want an example of? People ignoring Benjamin Franklin? People who deserve neither liberty nor safety?

Obviously people do not care about his "prophecy", otherwise we wouldn't be increasing the power of government to do whatever it wants.

I dunno, but that seems like one of the more irrelevant verses in that whole speech. It's not in a context that would demand a fact check.

"Long and painful history" is vague and interpretable. The majority of events I could use have happened in the last 6 years. Whether they apply to everyone all the time or a small group of people is irrelevant. Keith didn't specify.

The definition of liberty from any time period other than right now is also pretty irrelevant. I think you ask too much for the sake of being difficult and I think you couldn't have chosen a more meaningless sentence. The current definitions of liberty make this much easier for me and I think you realize that.

The Patriot Act, the Military Commisions Act, various other executive orders, some approved by the people to help "defend" them from "terrorists". Not only do they not truly guarantee any kind of safety, AT ALL, they wittle away rights and liberties of everyone, even though you might not be affected right away, or directly. Even now after all that has happened you and many others defy Ben F, prolonging conflict because you are afraid of something that doesn't exist. If the conflict cannot be resolved through attacking it's suspected source, which it can't, it will only get worse and thus begins the downward spiral of you giving the gov more power to quell your fears. First you allow your neighbors to be violently searched because you just went them to be safe, next you allow your children to be tracked by radio via a chip in their arm.

Here is a just a few liberties that have been compromised:
The right of privacy
The right to Free and unfettered access
The right to know the details of what our government is actually doing (loss of the freedom of information act)
The right to due process
The right to be free of unjustified search and seizure
The right to be free of investigations that have no court orders or warrants attached
The right to be safe from wars declared without consent of Congress

You may be patting yourself on the back for choosing such a vague and meaningless quote but I think you need to get serious. Maybe try finding something with a verifiable source, instead of thinking you can't get me to back up someone's opinion, because these last 7 years have seemed long and painful for a lot of people.

I don't expect you to agree with this. You are being quite difficult after all. It's strange, too, after fussing over eminent domain not too long ago. If essential liberties were not at risk here, I do not believe you would be wearing that avatar.

porschekiller · #25 10-14-2007, 11:08 AM

IF ANY OF US WERE TRUE PATRIOTS, WE'DE ALL BE IN OUR COUNTRY OF ORIGINS OR AT LEAST CONTINENT OF ORIGIN. AMBITIOUS DESERTERS HAVE NOTHING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT.

NikFu S. · #26 10-14-2007, 03:29 PM

We'd all be in Africa near the mediterranean?

porschekiller · #27 10-14-2007, 05:50 PM

do you really believe that propaganda? lets stick to cultural origins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

We'd all be in Africa near the mediterranean?

sicksubie · #28 10-14-2007, 08:30 PM

So my family goes back to scandinavia and we all part ways and the Indians get N America back???? Your statement doesn't make much sense. Feel free to expand so maybe I will see what you are trying to say.

porschekiller · #29 10-15-2007, 04:30 AM

i'm not suggesting any kind of exodus legislation. i'm just saying we've got nothing to complain about when we're not where we belong to begin with. ask yourself what the character of america is? we're not a country, we're a market. scandavia will always be associated with peace prizes and health. sweden has taken more iraqi refugees than any other country. america will always be associated with testing nuclear devices on women and children in our subaru's homeland. talk about global terrorism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sicksubie

So my family goes back to scandinavia and we all part ways and the Indians get N America back???? Your statement doesn't make much sense. Feel free to expand so maybe I will see what you are trying to say.

Manarius · #30 10-15-2007, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porschekiller

i'm not suggesting any kind of exodus legislation. i'm just saying we've got nothing to complain about when we're not where we belong to begin with. ask yourself what the character of america is? we're not a country, we're a market. scandavia will always be associated with peace prizes and health. sweden has taken more iraqi refugees than any other country. america will always be associated with testing nuclear devices on women and children in our subaru's homeland. talk about global terrorism.

Whaaaaaa!? America associated with dropping "the bomb" more than 60 years ago? That's like saying Russia is still associated with Stalin and Lenin which just isn't the case.

The bomb was not a test, it was a way to keep America from having to invade Japan (an axis power at the time), and kill far more people than required. The Japanese would have fought to the bitter end. We could have invaded, but far more lives would have been lost on both sides.