What to expect from a built motor

[STeeL25T]

Another "what if?" thread. I'm sorry, I know were all tired of question like these.

I know a couple of you have built up your motors with forged internals, delta cams, etc... I just wanted to know what you think your motor is capable of in terms of horse power?

I still don't know what all I'm doing to my motor. Its getting 8.5:1 piston and eagle rods, cometic head gaskets, outlaw spacers, ACL or Lan's bearings I don't know yet, and ARP bolts if I can track them down. I'm not touching th headers, I have no idea what to do with the heads (what did you do?).

I just want to know how much power the a motor built like that (or better with your suggestions) can handle. I don't think 450 hp would be out of the question, but then again how the heck would I know, so I ask you

[SilverSpear]

Do you plan to go Turbo or S/C?

[mikecg]

What to expect?

Well, lets see. Expect an empty bank account, headaches during tuning, power levels about 10 to 15 percent less then what you were hoping, a busted driveline, and possibly at least one blown motor.

I may be a little optomistic there. It may not come out that good.

[SilverSpear]

Originally Posted by mikecg

What to expect?

Well, lets see. Expect an empty bank account, headaches during tuning, power levels about 10 to 15 percent less then what you were hoping, a busted driveline, and possibly at least one blown motor.

I may be a little optomistic there. It may not come out that good.

Mike, do you think this is related to the internals you are using? I mean in my book, if someone wants to do such a project, he shouldn't sacrifice anything in going full fledge with this.

The bank account thing, you are 100% right. But to think that you "need" X parts and don't need V, W, Y, Z parts... here is the mistake.

Either get a mortgage and buy the "additional" parts such as sleeves, studs, new fabbed cams, valves.......... or don't do it at all...

[Sov13t]

Nobody knows... as nobody has pushed a built motor... to its limits... yet...

Today with the help of HydraEMS and many other new modifications that have been developed... we have way more possibilities.

I am hoping to reach something respectable with my project... but who knows it is as likely to be disappointing as it is successful... at the end of the day you are wasting a significant amount money into a car thats not easy to modify or do anything with.... during a tough economic time... not mentioning time and many other factors.

Planning what you want... how you want it and how you are going to get there... is key for any such project.

-Sov13t.

[STeeL25T]

My setup will be single turbo, WRX 5 speed with Legacy GT 1-2 gear swap keeping the final drive. Hopefully that wont shatter like glass I can't spring for anything better than that. Do you think running it in front wheel drive mode with the fuse in would put less stress on launching?

I like the Hydra but I want to bypass it if I can for the time being, it just costs too much. I understand this isn't a cheap game, and I'm no stranger to dumping thousands of dollars into crazy swaps, but I'm just don't want to spring for it right up front when I have so many other things to pay for, then when it done I still wont be able to drive it for waiting for the stand alone and sensors and maps and dyno tuning.

If thats the case then I guess I'd be at he mercy of the MAF, whatever the Z32 one tops out at I guess.

I know you know what your talking about Mike but I'm hoping to avoid some of that... Heres to hoping I have never built a motor before so I'm not sure what to expect. It seems logical that once its built then its just a matter of how big of a snail I slap on it, but of course its never that easy.

[SVXRide]

Depending on how much boost you're willing to run...


Seriously, I would think that 8-10 lbs of boost with the engine you've outlined (low level of boost = no FMIC) that you can realistically expect ~350-400 hp at the crank. I'd be careful going to the FWD mode. When my solenoid C went bad (didn't know it at the time) I was able to light the passenger's side front tire up at will and the car is NA with "interesting" mods.

-Bill

[STeeL25T]

I like your car I would be looking to run at least twice as much boost as that. This car really is not a good set up for FMIC's though... My nissan project had a HUGE front mount but I drove it around without any bumper support, thats something I never want to do again. I would either tuck in a long but short one as best I could or I think Kozykat mentioned looking into a water to air setup I'll keep my eye out for.

I don't do anything fast so this is going to be done over the course of a couple years more than likely. I've put it off for 5 months so far while I paid off my car so I can start saving some more money each month, I also work full time, go to school full time, and play in a band, have a 4 year old, and I'm getting married in 2010 so I got a lot of other things on my plate right now to rush it lol.

Heres my current status:

-Engine is out of the car in my garage being torn down, hopefully it will be bare block by the end of the month.

-Bought my car 5 speed swaped just no tranny, so I have the driveshaft, transmission mount, 3 pedals all with or on the car already. I've tried to buy two broken transmissions to date but both fell through, I'll start looking again in July maybe.

- I send payment for 8.5:1 CP pistons Thursday. I'm looking forward to getting to the "no turning back now" point

Other than that I got my parts list written out for most things I need with the prices and thus far I'm happy with the cost, coming from a guy who has paid 1200 bucks just for mount mounts and drive shaft and 3000 for a front clip before this looks to be a bargin (on paper lol).

I still want to hear the gurus thoughts on what to do for head work while rebuilding. All new valves, springs, etc? I've contacted Delta before but I don't really know profile to ask them for. I don't know of any where to port the exhaust side

[SVXRide]

You probably want to talk to Tom Johnson (All We'll Drive), aka TOMSSVX about the head work and cams. Michael (ECUTune), aka Longassname is also a source for cams and non-standalone engine management.

Good luck!

-Bill

[SilverSpear]

I might be wrong, but to run twice the boost that you are mentioning, you would definitely need ARP studs, darton sleeves, cometic gaskets, and... something to do with a semi closed deck

[STeeL25T]

I am unsure on that also, but 8 psi or right around it is essentially stock boost on pretty much every car I can think of, surely you'd think a build motor could handle a little more than that. I ran 12 to 15 on my RB25 for a while, eventually that destroyed the turbo lol but the motor was good, and it was stock with worse 9:1 compression... So I wouldn't think 16 psi is out of the question, but these are a different kind of animal. What do built EJs normally run?

I was planning to do all of the things you mentioned anyway except sleaving, and the closed deck cause I haven't heard of anyone that will do it for us.

I'm sure Tom is already annoyed with me, but I'd like to make good friends with him over the next year lol. I'll ask him, but going to a completely different valve set up and losing my non interferance saftey net are not things I want to do.

[SilverSpear]

Originally Posted by STeeL25T

I am unsure on that also, but 8 psi or right around it is essentially stock boost on pretty much every car I can think of, surely you'd think a build motor could handle a little more than that. I ran 12 to 15 on my RB25 for a while, eventually that destroyed the turbo lol but the motor was good, and it was stock with worse 9:1 compression... So I wouldn't think 16 psi is out of the question, but these are a different kind of animal. What do built EJs normally run?

I was planning to do all of the things you mentioned anyway except sleaving, and the closed deck cause I haven't heard of anyone that will do it for us.

I'm sure Tom is already annoyed with me, but I'd like to make good friends with him over the next year lol. I'll ask him, but going to a completely different valve set up and losing my non interferance saftey net are not things I want to do.

For such a project to work, or even upgrade it further in the future, I think you need to consider at least semi closing.

Meaning you just put bits here and there between the stock sleeve and the inner block skin. This will stop the stock sleeves from vibrating under heaving loads.

Again I might be exaggerating, I am not the expert in this. But I have read a lot about heavy boosting the EG33.

If it was me, I would do it right. Doing it right meaning a semi closed deck and sleeving before anythign else.

[STeeL25T]

I would perfer to do it that way, but like I said, who does it? Is there anyone who has a semi closed deck EG33? The one RallyBob built might be, other than that I have no idea who to even begin talking to about that.

[Sov13t]

Hmm... as far as I know... YT was putting ~12psi on a STOCK 200k mile motor... so what is this talk about closing the deck for 10#...

[scottsvx]

I noticed Sicksubie is running 12psi on his built motor... Maybe talk to him?