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  #1  
Old 03-26-2004, 08:52 PM
swpyne
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Failed emissions test - no codes

My 96 SVX has failed it's emissions test. There are no codes in the system, plugs, & air filter look good. Runs great.
The e-test showed it failed in HC only. CO & Nox both passed.
I'm in Colorado where they run an IM-240 (ie. dyno) test.
The HC ran high across the board, while all else was good.
Any ideas on where to start?
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  #2  
Old 03-26-2004, 10:19 PM
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SSSVX SSSVX is offline
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Do you have the report with you? What are the results from your emission test? What are the scores for the HC, NO2, CO and O2??
Would you mind just posting here....

I may have a way to amazingly help you solve this problem. Email at this gbw5@yahoo.com to find out more. I have this add-on thing on my 92 SVX. Works great and help making my 92 SVX engine 66K running even better...what's your mileage on your SVX now? What kind of gas mileage you get?

Let's what other people say here...or you can send your cellphone# to gbw5@yahoo.com See if I can help you with that.....hope you solve your problem soon.
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  #3  
Old 03-26-2004, 10:30 PM
swpyne
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Here are my emission test readings:

HC GPM 3.5580
CO GPM 1.6634
CO2 GPM 438.7467
NO2 GPM 0.6220

Mileage is just under 91K

What is this "thing" that you refer to?
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  #4  
Old 03-26-2004, 11:49 PM
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drivemusicnow drivemusicnow is offline
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do they have awd dynos????? if not than you shouldn't have to do it, and its not good for your car to do it. i guess i'm just confused cause i havn't heard of any required dynos for awd cars (might have in cali, but not sure)
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  #5  
Old 03-27-2004, 12:23 AM
swpyne
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Yes, Colorado has AWD dynos.
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  #6  
Old 03-27-2004, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by drivemusicnow
do they have awd dynos????? if not than you shouldn't have to do it, and its not good for your car to do it. i guess i'm just confused cause i havn't heard of any required dynos for awd cars (might have in cali, but not sure)

I was told that the test stations in IL will have AWD dynos by 2006. By then I'll find a way to register my car in MI.
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Previous SVXes: •1994 LE Barcelona Red 107k • 1992 LS-L Pearl White 143k • 1994 LSi Bordeaux Pearl 220k • 1992 LS-L Ebony Pearl 184k • 1992 LS-L Liquid Silver 145k • 1992 LS-L Liquid Silver 102k • 1992 LS-L Ebony Pearl 123k
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  #7  
Old 03-27-2004, 12:53 PM
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UberRoo UberRoo is offline
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Excessive hydrocarbons [HC] simply means something didn't finish burning. The only thing that should be burning is fuel, but a little bit of engine oil is typically consumed even in a healthy engine. If you find yourself topping off the oil level very often, then your engine consumes oil. I have no idea how much it takes to fail the emissions test. In any case, if your engine consumes more that just a tiny amount of oil, that's likely to be your problem. A good catalytic converter usually takes care of that, so the two may be related.

The other possibility is related to fuel. There's a gazillion reasons why the fuel is not being completely spent, but we can narrow it down to the most likely causes. If you have any aftermarket performance devices, consider them as a possible cause. A performance "chip" will often flunk you, as will a performance exhaust. The catalytic converter plays a huge role in emissions, and if it's damaged or simply removed or replaced with an inadequate one, that'll result in unburned fuel and flunk you again.

Also a likely and common failure point is the EGR valve, in fact, it's almost synonymous with emissions testing because it's so crucial and such a notorious offender. Dirty fuel injectors can also give you trouble, but I'd say that's probably pretty unlikely. More likely, much easier to check, and WAY cheaper to replace is the spark plugs. Spark plugs have some really unpredictable characteristics on how they affect engine performance, and even good-looking ones can be horribly faulty. Replace them with extreme prejudice.

A poor score in the hydrocarbon category doesn't necessarily equate to poor fuel economy, but each is a symptom of the other. If your economy is poor, this would explain it.
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  #8  
Old 03-27-2004, 02:02 PM
swpyne
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UberRoo, I don't burn oil and I don't have any aftermarket or performace parts on the car. The spark plugs look new although I suppose they could be the culprit. My fuel economy is normal and I agree that it's not likely my injectors. I'm telling you this car runs GREAT and the idle isn't rough.

It could, however be related to the vaccuum canister or the EGR valve I suppose. Although I thought that was more related to NO2? How can one tell if the vaccuum canaster is defective or needs to be replaced?

I just replaced a faulty O2 sensor and thought that might fix it, but it didn't.

I'm still stumped. Any more ideas out there?
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  #9  
Old 03-27-2004, 03:34 PM
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You mean the charcoal canister? They pretty much seem to last forever and won't affect your tailpipe emissions any more than a bad gas cap would. (Maybe you had a bad tank of gas that day?)

You're right about the EGR being more related to NOx, but it changes the equations in more than a few ways that I don't fully understand. I don't really know what exactly the results would be if it were behaving badly. I have been told that it can affect hydrocarbons. I don't know why or how, but I know the chemistry that takes place inside your cylinders is complicated enough that it's possible.

As far as spark plugs go, I can tell you from my personal experience that I've had several engines, mostly on motorcycles, that exhibited strange problems that were cured with sparkplugs. I have a [four-cycle] dirt bike and [two-cycle] outboard motor that require new plugs every two hours. The old ones look beautiful, but don't work. I've tried new coils, points, condensers, wires, hotter plugs, colder plugs, lean mixtures, rich mixtures, all with no result. I sure wish I could explain why I have that problem, but plugs are just so darn cheap and easy to replace that it's just not worth fixing. All I know from this is that even perfect-looking plugs can be bad.

There is still a [small] possibility that it's your catalytic converter. I've never heard any explanations for why they go bad, but I know that mileage doesn't seem to change their predisposed self-destruct date very much. I'd hate for that to be your problem because those suckers are expensive, but maybe another member on here has one kicking around. They don't generally fetch a terrible figure in scrap value so you shouldn't have to sell your soul to get one.

Another possibility, also unlikely, is that you have low compression. A simple compression test on all six cylinders might be in order. (I'm sure you're looking at these suggestions and thinking, "maybe as a last resort," but they can't all be the last resort.) A burned valve won't exhibit oil consumption. On a six-cylinder motor it may not be noticeable, but low compression can give you a pretty lousy fuel burn.

The only way I can think to test for a bad catalytic converter, other than by putting your suspect one on a car that does pass emissions, is with a thermometer - almost certainly a digital laser thermometer. A working catalytic converter will get pretty hot. An overloaded one (from too many hydrocarbons) will get very, very, very hot indeed and may overheat and do all sorts of nasty things. A non-working catalytic converter won't get hot. (By "hot," I mean hotter than the exhaust pipe just upstream of the catalyst.) I've heard of cars catching on fire because excess fuel caused the catalyst to overheat and send the underside of the body up in flames. You might be able to just feel for radiant heat with the back of your hand and notice a huge difference, but I've never tried that and can only guess if it'd work or not.

I know I'd definitely replace the plugs and EGR valve. They're cheap, easy to do, and the most likely offenders.
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  #10  
Old 03-29-2004, 10:23 PM
swpyne
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I got a suggestion to consider adding a magnetic fuel economizer to my fuel line. Any of you have any experience with these? It looks like they can reduce the HC emissions by as much as 80%. Seems like it would be worth a try!
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  #11  
Old 03-30-2004, 12:38 AM
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Spencer, I have already emailed you back. Let me know later...
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  #12  
Old 04-24-2004, 10:48 AM
swpyne
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EMMISSIONS PROBLEM SOLVED!

One of our members "SSSVX" contacted me about using a pair of Fuelmax magnetic fuel line conditioners. He is a "Rep" for these ingenious little devices and he suggested I purchase a pair of them and see if they solved my HC emissions problem. He also offfered me a money back guarantee. Well I installed them about a month ago and just went in for a third emissions test and "low and behold" my SVX passed. The HC emissions went from 3.5580 to 0.2591 which is quite a dramatic reduction. Thanks again to "SSSVX" for helping me out with this one.
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  #13  
Old 04-24-2004, 07:36 PM
gl1674 gl1674 is offline
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Can anyone provide an explanation how these "ingenious" devices work and what they do (other than enriching their inventor)?
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  #14  
Old 04-24-2004, 08:20 PM
lee lee is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by gl1674
Can anyone provide an explanation how these "ingenious" devices work and what they do (other than enriching their inventor)?
Here's a quote from one of the web sites promoting it (others are similar):

Quote:
Super FuelMax is a magnetic frequency resonator that installs over a vehicle fuel line. This fuel saver's patented Neodymium super conductors generate a specific resonance frequency that will fracture hydrocarbon chains in passing fuel. Because of this, combustion becomes more efficient and is accelerated, thereby burning more of the passing fuel that normally is exhausted as un-burned, wasted automobile pollution.
As you know, many automotive products promise the "moon & stars", but fail to deliver when put in scientific test conditions. Perhaps FuelMax works, perhaps not, but I feel safe in categorically refuting "Neodymium super conductors" and they most definitely are NOT a "magnetic frequency resonator".

Well, before I have to remove foot from mouth, I should review the latest scientific literature and find out if the FuelMax manufacturer has found a way to make Neodymium a room temperature superconductor - this WILL get them the Nobel prize in physics. I wonder if you can win two awards in one year...creating a magnetic resonance device with a static magnetic field is deserving all by itself.

BTW, I wonder what chemical compounds they break the fuel down into....octane turned into what....heptane, that results in a greatly reduced "octane rating" and an engine will knock like crazy....but maybe I'm the one who's crazy

Last edited by lee; 04-24-2004 at 08:24 PM.
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  #15  
Old 04-24-2004, 08:51 PM
gl1674 gl1674 is offline
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Sounds like a complete and utter fraud to me.
I've counted 6 things that are wrong:

1) Room temperature superconductor (Nobel prize for sure!)
2) No wires to conduct electricity (why do they need a superconductor then?)
3) Specific resonanse frequency from a static magnet? By the way what is the frequency? Is it patented yet?
4) Magnetic field to cause chemical reactions in organic (dielectric!) matter (another Nobel prize!)
5) More efficient combustion? Pardon me, but modern engines achieve >99% combustion efficiency as evidenced by HC and CO emissions anyway.
6) Accelerated combustion? Sounds like a detonation to me, the whole point of higher octane fuels is to burn slower so compression could be increased without causing too fast combustion...
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