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  #61  
Old 12-20-2012, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Conn SVX View Post
No glass in the front door.
Electric power doors or gates, hit one button and all door lock and all hallways are blocked .If there is a breach the school can go into a total lock down just like a jail.
Or wire frame glass. Whatever that stuff is called.

A school can be built like a prison without looking or feeling like one, and doors that lock only from the outside maintains fire code.

Guns won't save everyone, shrinks won't fix everyone, I think the answer lies less in trusting people to do the right thing and more in removing the opportunity to do the wrong thing.
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  #62  
Old 12-20-2012, 11:31 PM
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Re: Adam Lanza - CT Massacre

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Originally Posted by WYOSVX View Post
Yeah, if someone comes a shootin', I'm not gonna lay down and die! It's already too late if they've come with their guns a blazin'.

Just seems like there should be some way to prevent this. I'm as clueless as anyone as to the way to do that, though. Probably too ingrained in human nature.
I just read an article on Pop Sci online, "Would Arming Teachers and Students Really Have Prevented a Tragedy." They refer to a 2009 Univ Penna study that claims that if a victim had a chance to resist, he or she was 5.5 x more likely to be shot. There's a lot more to it and I can't say that I'm convinced of the validity of the study results. Interesting reading, though.

Forbes mentions that flawed study yesterday.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/modeledb...un-possession/
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  #63  
Old 12-20-2012, 11:52 PM
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Re: Adam Lanza - CT Massacre

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Originally Posted by 1986nate View Post
Your point actually brought up something I didn't think of and did make me do some thinking.
Here's the difference. McVeigh was an act of terror and had no intention of killing himself. This is usually how terror attacks are. The difference would be ones carried out by those that believe they will prosper in the afterlife for doing what they did. These are planned out very long term. Very methodical. There isn't a point where they "snap". They plan, and plan, and eventually pick a good time.
Now, take this into account about the Batman shooter. Had he wanted to die, he would have likely stayed in a standoff with police until he was shot, or stayed around to be shot. In his case his was more planned out. He didn't just "snap". He obviously thought out that he wanted to do this on the opening night. Found the theater that had signs up saying guns weren't allowed, etc. Perhaps if every location allowed weapons, he might go to further levels. It's impossible to know.
Most of these mass shootings (especially at schools) are done by people who seemingly want to die, but don't want to just "off" themselves at home in their basement. If there is even a single deterrent, they are likely too much of a coward to go through with it.

Of course none of these apply for every case. Every case is indeed unique. The real issue at hand is the fact that there are very, very few mental hospitals anymore. Insurance companies won't cover the care, and doctors make more off writing prescriptions than actually figuring out the root of the problem. If anyone wants mental help for their son, daughter, or other family member, they are encouraged to wait until they do something violent so it goes on their police record, and eventually possibly go into the jail/prison system for acting out. All the while, the leading cause of the actions are never learned, never figured out, never solved, never helped. This is the true root of the problem at this point. The secondary issue typcally coming down to how the person acting out may have been raised.

Good, well-considered points! Of course, you can't begin to count the acts of terror involving suicide so I think that variable could, potentially, be removed from consideration. I'm not sure that the bomb vest massacres are planned out any more so than the CT massacre. But, your points are very good and seem valid. How many massacres, with so many potential variables, would it take to draw a proper scientific conclusion, I wonder. The real answer to how to 'fix' the problem is that no one knows, and I think you suggest that, too.
I'm impressed by the thoughtful conversation among SVXers. Not sure you'd get that on many other forums. We seem to favor the Clint Eastwood solution over the Gandhi solution. I think I do, too, because it's what I'm comfortable with. But, when choosing force, though I know it's worked for me, I've always- every time- felt that it wasn't quite right. I just can't explain it. Like I've walked away with bad karma. When I've avoided violence or force, I haven't felt that.
It must be late.
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  #64  
Old 12-21-2012, 12:02 AM
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Re: Adam Lanza - CT Massacre

In the middle of the infamous LA riots, an imperfect man spoke words that haunt me still.
"People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along?"
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  #65  
Old 12-21-2012, 07:35 AM
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Re: Adam Lanza - CT Massacre

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conn SVX View Post
No glass in the front door.
Electric power doors or gates, hit one button and all door lock and all hallways are blocked .If there is a breach the school can go into a total lock down just like a jail.
+1!







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  #66  
Old 12-21-2012, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WYOSVX View Post
We seem to favor the Clint Eastwood solution over the Gandhi solution.
That's kind of a false dichotomy. There is a host of preventative solutions that aren't as extreme as those two.
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  #67  
Old 12-22-2012, 12:38 AM
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Re: Adam Lanza - CT Massacre

Agreed. It was not intended as a dichotomy at all. Definitely over-simplification as any sort of basis for working toward a solution, and certainly not dichotomous. I'll try to quit posting late night when I get too lazy to be thorough.

Our town's schools have gone into lock down. One entrance only, locked classrooms. More police patrols. Won't prevent something like the Bath School disaster of 1927 but it feels more secure.

So, now our schools have locked classrooms, random drug testing for kids in extra-curricular activities, and their school dance style has been restricted to Disney princess type dancing (no more grinding.) It doesn't feel like the age of Aquarius.
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  #68  
Old 12-22-2012, 09:05 AM
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Re: Adam Lanza - CT Massacre

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conn SVX View Post
No glass in the front door.
Electric power doors or gates, hit one button and all door lock and all hallways are blocked .If there is a breach the school can go into a total lock down just like a jail.
Then he would have just called in a bomb threat and he could have sat in the woods and picked them off single file as they walked out the doors...

Or maybe he would have chose to shoot up a daycare instead...

Or how about a nice shopping mall or church...

You just cant stop CRAZY from being CRAZY, and I am not willing to live in a prison/police state to avoid the random CRAZY.
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  #69  
Old 12-22-2012, 01:50 PM
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Then he would have just called in a bomb threat and he could have sat in the woods and picked them off single file as they walked out the doors...
You sir, are a [possibly evil] genius.
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  #70  
Old 12-25-2012, 01:39 PM
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Re: Adam Lanza - CT Massacre

Metal detectors and armed guards. I went to art school in NYC in 1992-94. We had metal detectors and armed guards. This was in the upper east side, very nice area. It was a preventive measure.
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