Burned up idler pulleys?

[jhood422]

Alright my last post was about a failed timing belt.. well now I'm being told my idler pulleys are burned up. Believable, but my question is this can this harm my engine? Because now I've had a third opinion that I should replace my engine.

How much do idler pulleys go for? How many do the SVX's have? Should I replace them and try and see if the engine is okay.. or do I swap out my motor?

[Crazy_pilot]

I think it was mentioned in your other thread, but everyone here typically replaces the idlers when changing the timing belt. There are 5 pulleys I believe that come in the timing belt kit from PCI. A failed one won't hurt your motor. They're cheap. Just replace them for the peace of mind.

Don't replace the engine. Buy the timing belt kit with the idlers and replace those parts. If you can foot the bill change the water pump, thermostat, and associated gaskets while you're at it. I didn't do the pump when I did my belt, and surprise! One year later the pump sprung a massive leak.

This is the kit with the pump: $300.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/92-97...ht_2768wt_1165

This is the kit with only the belt and idlers: $183, but can be had for as little as $160.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/92-93...ht_1580wt_1165

[subarufamily]

i concur replace the belts wp, gaskets, idler pulleys as needed IE all of them as they come with kit, I did, just before one went out as it had started to wobble. just my opinion. since the motor is non-interference i wouldnt stress about replacing the motor they are almost bullet proof

[jhood422]

The guy I have working on it says all signs are pointing to a blown motor. Apparently it got so hot "the water pump turned blue" and "grease hardened." He keeps telling me not to waste my money and to swap out the motor. So apparently my water pump failed too. What could be the cause of this much overheating? It can't be good... and could this overheating cause secondary damages?

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by jhood422

The guy I have working on it says all signs are pointing to a blown motor. Apparently it got so hot "the water pump turned blue" and "grease hardened." He keeps telling me not to waste my money and to swap out the motor. So apparently my water pump failed too. What could be the cause of this much overheating? It can't be good... and could this overheating cause secondary damages?

It is hard to understand where the guy is coming from. Engine heat from a faulty emgine, could only be transferred to the water pump via the block or circulating water. The pump could not be heated in this way to a point whereby it would have turned blue. If some part of the pump did indeed turn blue, the likely cause would be a seized bearing, which also adds up with the reported hardened grease.

A seized water pump would most certainly damage the belt, but how come the quite separate idler pulleys, are also “burned up”? Nothing the guy you have working on the car is telling you makes sense. Or is it that in fact you had an engine fire"?

Get another reliable opinion before you are talked into wasting a lot of money.

[huck369]

I had this happen on my old Pearly, the water pump went out, which in turn caused the idler pulleys to go bad (from the heat off the belt where the water pump was tight, and slipping) I replaced the water pump, idler pulleys and timing belt and it ran fine, but if it got REALLY hot there could be other damage.

[Sean486]

Probably want to do the cam seals too, while there is access (if they have never been done).

[Crazy_pilot]

I have a feeling that if you got it hot enough to do that sort of damage you would have seen much bigger things. Like a blown apart radiator.

[jhood422]

Thanks for the advice... too bad I don't even know what a cam seal is. My ignorance is going to get me screwed over but the last thing on my mind is parting with my car and "getting it junked" or "selling it on eBay" which I've had several people tell me to do already.

I'm going to get the timing belt done, along with the idler pulleys and the water pump. Hopefully that will work and nothing else is damaged. I got $350 as a quote for the labor, is that a good price? Where is the best place I can purchase quality parts? I've been looking around online but I'm not sure.

My ultimate hope is that I don't have to swap out my motor. And I'm pretty sure that the only motor that will mount correctly is one from another SVX.

[StatGSR]

I went with the kit with water pump that was posted above off ebay. all the parts appeared of high quality to me.

also some good news for you. your not wasting money on parts even if your motor was bad, the t-belt and idlers should most likely be done to any used motor you would find to put in your car. so all you have to lose is the cost of labor.

IMO $350 doesn't sound to bad, granted you may be able to find a lower price, but not by too much. since most shops will charge $75 or more an hour to do the work.

and yea, the only motor that drops into an svx is an svx eg33 since it was the only subaru with that motor.

[SoCal LS-L]

The mechanic is a douche IMO. If ANY of the idlers seized, or the waterpump, the belt would get hot enough to discolor the other pulleys.... take it from someone who had a seized waterpump It does NOT mean the motor is blown. Just request a block test to eliminate a headgasket issue before spending the cash on fixing the timing problem.... especially if it was the waterpump that seized.

My problem was almost identical to yours when my WP went, and my engine is still going strong 18 months later.... dont let anyone tell you the engine is shot just from some pulley discoloration. And im pretty surprised someone here from the east coast hasnt offered to do this for you.... anyone who has been under the timing covers a few times could do this job in 3 hours or less, and it would be better to get it done by someone who knows the EG33.

[jhood422]

SoCal,

I had YET another person examine my car and he tells me that it wasn't timing belt failure at all.. it was a seized water pump. He said I had a 50/50 chance that there was wasn't a problem with the engine.

[SoCal LS-L]

Originally Posted by jhood422

SoCal,

I had YET another person examine my car and he tells me that it wasn't timing belt failure at all.. it was a seized water pump. He said I had a 50/50 chance that there was wasn't a problem with the engine.

Bingo.... its the exact problem I had. Did you redline the temp gauge? Depending on how bad the engine was overheated, you may or may not have damaged the head gaskets.... the seal between the engine block and the cylinder heads.

When mine seized, I caught it just as it went into the red and pulled over. My coolant was boiling out of the reservoir tank and I was sure I borked the head gaskets. Alas after testing the block FIRST, then slapping in a new waterpump and timing belt kit, the car has no issues with the headgasket. The old pulleys had been heat discolored and even had melted rubber all over them from the belt, it was ugly yes.... engine blown no. When this all happened my engine didnt utter a peep...my only indication of the WP seizure was my temp gauge heading into orbit

If I were in your shoes, I would FIRST either have a shop test the headgaskets with a specialized kit or smog machine to look for hydrocarbons in the cooling system.... this will reveal a headgasket problem (BAD) or let you breathe easy if nothing is found. If you do NOT test for a HG first, and end up dropping all this money into the timing and WP replacement with bad headgaskets... it all has to come out again anyways, and your out all that labor. PLUS most shops will not warranty the job unless you purchase new parts from THEM as well. Buy or rent a block tester kit, or have a shop do it, BEFORE doing anything else, or buying anything else for your car. Most shops will NOT warranty a job with customer supplied parts!

Please take the advice of someone who has worked as a tech for a few different places.... I saw bad headgaskets all the time. And believe me, a shop will be more careful with your car if they have to warranty anything they screw up....

Get it tested!

EDIT: I should add that if the HG is ok, you DEFINITELY should spring for the new pulleys right away. Mine spun fine so I kept them on for a little while longer and it ended up screwing me the NIGHT I came back to Reno . The heat had disfigured a dust seal on one of the pulleys, which ended up popping off a short time later (450 miles from home) and getting chewed up in my timing belt..... which skipped my timing and disabled my car yet again. Oops.... http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=49305

[jhood422]

Unfortunately I do not have a habit of looking at my temperature gauge all that often... I know it definitely overheated because I saw my timing belt after and it was melted and chewed up. As for the pulleys.. what pulleys? Haha those are all burned up. I know it got REAL hot in there though, I'm surprised I didn't have an engine fire. I only had about half a gallon of coolant left.

[1986nate]

Originally Posted by jhood422

Unfortunately I do not have a habit of looking at my temperature gauge all that often... I know it definitely overheated because I saw my timing belt after and it was melted and chewed up. As for the pulleys.. what pulleys? Haha those are all burned up. I know it got REAL hot in there though, I'm surprised I didn't have an engine fire. I only had about half a gallon of coolant left.

The belt overheated from friction. This does not mean that the motor necessarily overheated.