Oil Discussion

[vkykam]

(Boy is it getting a little warm in here or what...)

Aredub,

If you think the factory oil filter looks a little skimpy, you might want to look at the AMSOil/Hasting one.

Physically, it's about an inch longer, which would probably translate to more filter material inside.

Now, I've had it on my car for 5500 miles, and the oil still looks clean and has no grit. Mind you, I've had to add a quart every 1500 miles, so I've added probably 3.5 quarts in there since. Tired rings would be my guess.

My plan is to change it out at 7500 miles. I do combo city/highway driving, and don't make any short trips, so I *think* (or rather *hope*) the acid buildup isn't too bad in the oil right now. And I usually go about 2000 miles a month, so 4 months isn't too long an interval.

VK

I'm not sure if you guys have seen this web page or not but I'll post it for discussion purposes.

http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/minimopar/oilfilters.html

[nubs]

The last batch of OEM filters I purchased from my dealer are made by Purolater. My friend at the dealer recommended that I should them and I trust him 100%. I still get some lifter noise sometimes at start up, depending how long it has been sitting. It goes away in a few minutes, so I am not to worried. Eddy I am with you on the OEM parts. I try to use them as much as possible.

[Aredubjay]

<<Eddy I am with you on the OEM parts. I try to use them as much as possible.>>

I am also "all about" OEM parts when it comes to most things. Oil filters are not one of those things. Now that I know they're made by Purolator, I am even more glad I don't use them. Purolator has never really been a name of "esteem" (neither of disdain, I might add) among those I know that are "in the know," automotively speaking. I have a higher level of confidence in the Castrol product. I've yet to use a quart of Purolator oil.

<<I have a higher level of confidence in the Castrol product. I've yet to use a quart of Purolator oil.>>

Ah yes. A quandry. Purolator makes filters but doesn't formulate engine oil. Castrol formulates engine oil but doesn't make filters. At least I'd be willing to bet Castrol doesn't make their own filters. My guess is there is only a handful of maufacturers producing under an umbrella of brand names. Gasoline is the same way. In the midwest there are only one or two refineries producing the stuff but a couple dozen different station names in the area. We shouldn't assume that because Castrol can do a good job with oil that they can also do a good job with a filter.

I wonder if anybody out there knows if Castrol makes thier own filters or if someone manufactures for them. Also would be curious who that maker would be.

In my experience the only area I've seen superiority in stock vs. aftermarket is in exhaust systems. Factory components far outlast aftemarket ones.

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by lightning_8669
<<I have a higher level of confidence in the Castrol product. I've yet to use a quart of Purolator oil.>>

Ah yes. A quandry. Purolator makes filters but doesn't formulate engine oil. Castrol formulates engine oil but doesn't make filters. At least I'd be willing to bet Castrol doesn't make their own filters. My guess is there is only a handful of maufacturers producing under an umbrella of brand names. Gasoline is the same way. In the midwest there are only one or two refineries producing the stuff but a couple dozen different station names in the area. We shouldn't assume that because Castrol can do a good job with oil that they can also do a good job with a filter.

I wonder if anybody out there knows if Castrol makes thier own filters or if someone manufactures for them. Also would be curious who that maker would be.

In my experience the only area I've seen superiority in stock vs. aftermarket is in exhaust systems. Factory components far outlast aftemarket ones.

Still and all, I'd have more confidence in someone who has been supplying the oil buying public with oil since 1899 placing their name on a filter. Call it brand loyalty, call it respect for the brand through years of use, call it what you will. I'd expect after all these years, they'd be able to specify the properties they'd like to see in a filter, and would feign placing their name on an inferior product, despite who produces it. As a marketing professional, I understand the "Handful of suppliers for a particular product" scenario and don't fall victim to hype easily, especially having been "behind the scenes" on such things. No, we shouldn't "assume" anything, it makes . . . well, you know, but, until I can build a lab in my house and hire the scientists to analyze the various products that I use, I'll just have to depend on available information, no matter how flawed, along with personal preference and trust. Perhaps, in the future, I'll expend the money and time to buy several filters, including Subaru, Castrol, Purolator, Fram, Deutsch, et al, smash them all open and make a more informed opinion . . . but, probably not.

<<Perhaps, in the future, I'll expend the money and time to buy several filters, including Subaru, Castrol, Purolator, Fram, Deutsch, et al, smash them all open and make a more informed opinion . . . but, probably not>> Something like this has already been done for you. I didn't read the link someone posted a day or two ago, but it might contain the comparison you are talking about. If not, I've read a site on the internet a year or two ago with a good comparison, so if someone is really interested you can find the information if you do a search. FWIW. Bill

<<I'd expect after all these years, they'd be able to specify the properties they'd like to see in a filter, and would feign placing their name on an inferior product, despite who produces it. >>

I'd be willing to say that of most manufacturers. Fact is making inferior product has a way of putting you out of business in the long run. Given a choice I think the potential for conflict would be lesser between Castrol having filters made than Subaru having filters made. The auto industry has historically put a great deal of pressure on its suppliers regarding what it will and will not pay for. Now Fuji Heavy doesn't wield the clout that say Ford or GM does but they still have some leverage. Here's a scenario (names omitted to prevent liable suit): A large car company goes to a tire maker, says to tire maker I'll buy x- number of tires from you over the next 5 years. Tire maker comes back and says the tire price is x-dollars. Car maker says that's too high. Car maker says they want to review tire makers process. Tells tire maker what processes to alter/reduce/eliminate. Tire maker protests, car maker says that's the deal or lose the contract. Tire maker wants to make money, agrees to modifed, cost reduced manufacturing process and begins supplying tires. Several months later extensive news footage of cars on roofs in ditches. Car and tire makers enter into urination contest over who's to blame.

And it isn't just tires and it isn't just oil filters. I don't want the whole world slamming me here but the bottom line is these companies are in it for the money and painting one name on it vs. another isn't a guarantee of a quality component.

Just my $.02, which isn't much at all.

[Aredubjay]

<<And it isn't just tires and it isn't just oil filters. I don't want the whole world slamming me here but the bottom line is these companies are in it for the money and painting one name on it vs. another isn't a guarantee of a quality component.>>

That's hitting the proverbial nail on the head. I get so sick of corporate buzzwords, "Empowerment" (where you're empowered to do what you want as long as it's what the exec. mgmt. wants), "Total Quality Management" (Like they're REALLY concerned about quality if it costs an extra penny per piece to "manage" it.) "Total Customer Satisfaction" (I ain't goin' into that one). Yep, the only gurantee is that there are no gurantees. Caveat emptor!

<<(Like they're REALLY concerned about quality if it costs an extra penny per piece to "manage" it.) >>

On this matter please don't ever think paying more gets you more. My favorite story is from a friend who does construction work. A collegue of his, a stone mason, decided to move to California from the Miwaukee WI area. So there he is in California trying to get work. He's bidding jobs like crazy and knows he is underbidding everyone else practically but he's not getting any work. He finally asked another mason what the hell the problem was and when the guy got around to asking how much he was bidding he said that was the problem. He was bidding too low and nobody thought he was any good. He tripled his bid price and was immedieately buried in work. Of course that might just be a "left coast" thing but I do know people who spend more than they need to on almost everything.

Don't get me wrong here either, some things should not be bought at the cheapest price because there is a difference. Bolts that hold and airplane engine in for instance.

[Aredubjay]

John, there's an old marketing story (perhaps you'll remember it) about a perfume that a popular maker created back in the 50's. They were selling it for 5.95 per sixteen ounce bottle. Consumer tests proved that ladies loved the fragrance, but, would not be caught dead in a cheap perfume. The producer repackaged the fragrance and began selling it for 50.00 per ounce. It sold like hotcakes. I can't remember the name of the producer or the perfume off hand, but this is indeed a "quandry." It is all about "perception" and "reality." "Percieved" value is not necessarily "real" value -- whether it be on the up or down side.

[Ron Mummert]

Which astronaut, when asked, "How does it feel to blasted into space in such a complex machine?", or words to that effect; replied: "How would you like to be sittin' in a contraption put together with a 10,000 parts, all of which were built by the lowest bidder?" Ron.

[Aredubjay]

Senator John Glen?

<<"Percieved" value is not necessarily "real" value >>

Perception is reality. If a person perceives value in a puchase then there is value in that purchase to that person. I'm not out to change peoples minds on the virtues of proper car care. However, in my personal and professional experiences I have found often times people stop looking when they arrive at a certain point in the thought process. I'm sure the psychologists have a word for it. But we all have our own pardigms and operate inside the box they construct. My career is to help companies think outside their paradigms. The reason children ask so questions is because most of their paradigms have yet to be set. My job isn't to change companies realities but to make sure the "perception" they have of it takes into account as many questions as possible.

Purchasing is all about feeling. How are you going to feel after you purchase something is a strong driving force in your actions. Please don't kid yourself into thinking that the marketing departments of the world aren't aware of this fact.

And just to keep this on topic, keep in mind farmers for the last 60 years or so have been driving tractors around their dusty fields, dragging heavy machinery powered by engines that did not even possess oil filters. I also think the farmer had better things to do with their time and money than to change their oil ever month or two.

<<Perception is reality. >> We're begining to sound like students of Plato sitting around the Parthenon.<<I also think the farmer had better things to do with their time and money than to change their oil ever month or two.>>Plato probably did too.