Birthday present for Electrophil

[Royal Tiger]

Here is a photo for all of you so that you can truly understand 9/11. I can't believe some people here think of it as some joke or conspiracy. Maybe it's because I'm a police officer, or maybe it's because as a reservist, my whole life changed after that morning, or maybe it's because I know people who lost loved ones that day. Maybe.

Robert, here's part two of your birthday present. Tigershark and I are going to fight about physics and engineering while you can sit back and chuckle at us, since neither of us have advanced degrees in either subject.

Originally Posted by Bipa
And how did they explain the 3rd building collapsing with no plane hit and no fuel to act as accelerant?

Originally Posted by Tigershark

Here is a photo for all of you so that you can truly understand 9/11. I can't believe some people here think of it as some joke or conspiracy. Maybe it's because I'm a police officer, or maybe it's because as a reservist, my whole life changed after that morning, or maybe it's because I know people who lost loved ones that day. Maybe.

Interesting. I ask for what The History Channel presented as the reason for the collapse of the third building, and you answer with a stock aerial photo of the aftermath. Does the photo present any evidence which contradicts the professor's theory?

Yes, the professor has several similar pictures in his presentation, which you would have known had you checked out either his lecture video or his scientific paper. So you lost people you know... so did I... so did a lot of people all over the world. Your whole life changed - well, frankly, everybody in the world was affected either directly by losing their lives, in a secondary manner by losing friends and loved ones, or in a tertiary manner by having to live with the changes that the U.S. government has made to the world political climate.

I can understand your perspective as a police officer. A close member of my family is one. He worked for a while undercover against Mafia and narcotics, and now gets called in for difficult homicides and the like. Last big one was a dismembered body of a girl found by a lake. He and his team got the guy after the first two teams ran out of leads and got stuck. I've seen the tenacity and motivation of a good police officer not just doing "a job", but fighting to keep the dregs of humanity from taking over. I've also seen how it changed the way he thinks. He sees the world using a very different filter and has to consciously remind himself when with trusted friends, family and loved ones that not everyone out there is a criminal to be viewed with suspicion. So that may also account for how quickly you branded the professor a nutcase. Maybe.

But what has that to do with the temperature at which steel melts and the resultant microstructural changes that occurr?

I must question whether you have watched even 10 minutes of the lecture. He isn't talking at all about WHO did it, but rather the science behind how it might have happened and why building 7 collapsed without being hit and without having fuel present as an accelerant.

He gives quite a lot of information during the long lecture, but you can also see his paper here. Due to the controversial content, it has gone through TWO sets of peer reviews before being accepted for publication.

This is not a joke, it is university calibre research with results being subsequently found acceptible for dissemination and publication.

[Royal Tiger]

Here's a question you have yet to answer, unless I missed it. What is your obsession with this country and it's leaders? Are you full of America envy? I haven't seen any Canada sucks threads around here that compel you to chime in and defend your homeland. 9/11 may have affected you, but as an American who had to leave his family behind after I got activated, I fail to see how much it affected you. Are you in the service? Did you have to leave everyone behind to fight for what you believe in? How did it affect you? I haven't seen anyone around here that really cares about how Canada governs it's people or even Germany. So why the obsession? I can understand people like Robert who are bitter, and as an American citizen, it's his right to have an opinion on how his country is run. I have never called him out or tried to deny his voice, or his right to dislike how things are going around here. What I can't understand is why you feel the need to post some valid issues, and some out right garbage (remember the fishing picture after Katrina?) on here bashing this country and it's President. I am tired of the 9/11 conspiracy B.S. that seems to cycle around here every few months. Are you one of those who believe the Pentagon wasn't hit by a plane, but a cruise missle? Do we have to have that discussion again? I don't know who this "proffessor" is, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't there that day and all his "theories" are based upon different items he has read. Isn't possible that other things he has no knowledge of occurred that day? Has any other 1,000+ foot building been hit by an aircraft and collapsed before to compare data from? Since you have tons of free time, call or write the History Channel and find out where they got thier data from for thier program. I have not flamed or degraded you, but your obsession puzzles me. If this country bothers you so much, become a citizen and vote for a change. I do wholeheartedly agree with Robert on one point, without drastic change, we will never be ALLOWED to have decent canidates in which to try and change the status quo.

[Electrophil]

Wow. I've missed a lot in this and other threads in the last few days.

To all involved, I am not kicking back eating popcorn watching, I've just had some things going on my wife is forcing me into. I'll be back tomorrow to re-enter the fray if allowed.

[Royal Tiger]

Rob, I gave you credit for your opinion, and mearly asked Bipa what her facination is. I don't see anything on the Landshark vs Shadow level.

Originally Posted by Tigershark

Here's a question you have yet to answer, unless I missed it. What is your obsession with this country and it's leaders? Are you full of America envy? I haven't seen any Canada sucks threads around here that compel you to chime in and defend your homeland. 9/11 may have affected you, but as an American who had to leave his family behind after I got activated, I fail to see how much it affected you. Are you in the service? Did you have to leave everyone behind to fight for what you believe in? How did it affect you? I haven't seen anyone around here that really cares about how Canada governs it's people or even Germany. So why the obsession? I can understand people like Robert who are bitter, and as an American citizen, it's his right to have an opinion on how his country is run. I have never called him out or tried to deny his voice, or his right to dislike how things are going around here. What I can't understand is why you feel the need to post some valid issues, and some out right garbage (remember the fishing picture after Katrina?) on here bashing this country and it's President. I am tired of the 9/11 conspiracy B.S. that seems to cycle around here every few months. Are you one of those who believe the Pentagon wasn't hit by a plane, but a cruise missle? Do we have to have that discussion again? I don't know who this "proffessor" is, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't there that day and all his "theories" are based upon different items he has read. Isn't possible that other things he has no knowledge of occurred that day? Has any other 1,000+ foot building been hit by an aircraft and collapsed before to compare data from? Since you have tons of free time, call or write the History Channel and find out where they got thier data from for thier program. I have not flamed or degraded you, but your obsession puzzles me. If this country bothers you so much, become a citizen and vote for a change. I do wholeheartedly agree with Robert on one point, without drastic change, we will never be ALLOWED to have decent canidates in which to try and change the status quo.

From the above, I have extrapolated that your answer could have been written as a simple "I don't know" or "I don't remember".

You sure have asked a lot of questions. I'll be polite and answer them all.

I have already answered your questions in previous posts. The answer to your very first question can be found in the post directly preceeding this one:
"everybody in the world was affected either directly by losing their lives, in a secondary manner by losing friends and loved ones, or in a tertiary manner by having to live with the changes that the U.S. government has made to the world political climate." I was affected in a secondary and tertiary manner.

Are you full of America envy?

No, I've lived in the USA and know first hand what it is like, both in small one-industry towns and large cities. Why would any Canadian envy the US, when US citizens are advised to pretend to be Canadian when travelling outside their own borders?

I haven't seen any Canada sucks threads around here that compel you to chime in and defend your homeland.

In order to complain about something, you must first know a little bit about it. That could be the reason. Maybe.

9/11 may have affected you, but as an American who had to leave his family behind after I got activated, I fail to see how much it affected you.

The majority of US citizens are NOT in the military and did not have to leave their families behind as a result of activation after 9/11. The US does not have compulsive service. It is an all-volunteer military. Are you now complaining about being activated?

Are you in the service?

This question was already answered in previous posts. Is it meant rhetorically or do you want me to repeat it again? I am not in the service.

Did you have to leave everyone behind to fight for what you believe in?

No, nor did the vast majority of US citizens. Your point here?

How did it affect you?

This question would take pages to answer, which you probably don't have time to read. Let's just stick with the short answer, which was given in the previous post. I've also talked about the effects in other posts.

I haven't seen anyone around here that really cares about how Canada governs it's people or even Germany.

I seem to recall a thread where German unification was discussed.... Other countries and forms of government have also been talked about. But you've also pointed out one of the major problems of today, that few US citizens really care.

I can understand people like Robert who are bitter, and as an American citizen, it's his right to have an opinion on how his country is run.

So non-citizens should just shut up, bow down, and take whatever the US dishes out? Oh, I've forgotten, in the US world view, non-citizens have no rights, not even the right to a fair trial. So as a non-citizen, since I have no rights, I also don't even have the right to complain? Interesting logic there.

What I can't understand is why you feel the need to post some valid issues, and some out right garbage (remember the fishing picture after Katrina?) on here bashing this country and it's President.

I didn't post that fishing picture. Go back and check and you'll see. Thanks for at least admitting that I post some valid issues. You'll have hopefully noticed that I don't spend much time on domestic issues, but instead focus on foreign relations that affect the rest of the world. I did have a lot more to say about the domestic scene when I was in the USA, but now that this particular area no longer affects me, I am no longer so vocal with my opinions on internal matters.

I am tired of the 9/11 conspiracy B.S. that seems to cycle around here every few months.

You reacted extremely strongly to a post that wasn't even directed at you. I posted that link for Robert, since he's got engineering background and would find the professor's theories and structural analysis of interest. I didn't start a conspiracy thread.

Are you one of those who believe the Pentagon wasn't hit by a plane, but a cruise missle?

This question comes from left field, but I'll answer it anyway. No.

Do we have to have that discussion again?

We never had this discussion, or at least I never took part in it. Short answer: No

I don't know who this "proffessor" is, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't there that day and all his "theories" are based upon different items he has read.

You seem to be making two points here. Correct me if I'm wrong. 1. It is acceptable to totally reject a theory and denigrate the proponent without having any information simply because you don't know about it. 2. Only people who were there that day can make valid statements about the event. I don't agree with either. You can take samples of metal, run them through standard tests, and then other scientists can take those results and extrapolate possible causes. Isn't that how forensic labs work?

Isn't possible that other things he has no knowledge of occurred that day?

That is exactly what he is talking about - that other things happened that we don't know about that day, which could account for the anomalies.

Has any other 1,000+ foot building been hit by an aircraft and collapsed before to compare data from?

Nope... which is why this is so remarkable. Other buildings have been hit by large planes full of fuel, and even after huge fires which took a long time to put out, no other building has collapsed as a result. Therefore, there's something different about this event. Particularly strange is the collapse of the third building which wasn't hit.

A few memorable examples:
At 9:49 am, on Saturday, July 28, 1945, Lt. Colonel William Smith was piloting a U.S. Army ten-ton, B-25 bomber that crashed into the Empire State Building. The majority of the plane hit the 79th floor, creating a hole in the building eighteen feet wide and twenty feet high. The plane's high-octane fuel exploded, hurtling flames down the side of the building and inside through hallways and stairwells all the way down to the 75th floor. 14 people were killed, 26 were injured. The integrity of the building wasn't affected so it did not collapse.

At about 2pm on Tuesday, Dec 6th, 2005, an Iranian air force C-130 plane carrying more than 90 people crashed into an apartment building in Tehran. "Both the main and reserve fuel tanks were full which is why the plane went up in flames as soon as it hit the building," Ahmad Ziaie, the head of Iran's fire brigade told state television, Reuters reported. A short time later, an explosion went off on the fourth floor of the building, which had filled with gas. The building was evacuated, and took firefighters quite a while to put out the blaze. The building did not collapse. 128 people died.

On May 20th, 1946, an army transport plane hit the north side of the 58th floor of the Bank of Manhattan Trust building (now the Trump building). It didn't collapse.

Since you have tons of free time, call or write the History Channel and find out where they got thier data from for thier program.

Since you like and trust the History Channel, you'll want to tune in Thursday, April 20th. They'll be running a program called "Modern Marvels: Engineering Disasters". I'll be very curious to see what they say, since they mention the third building in their summary online: "... on September 11, 2001, World Trade Center Building #7 wasn't attacked, but seven hours after the Twin Towers collapsed, it too is mysteriously reduced to a pile of rubble;..."

I have not flamed or degraded you, but your obsession puzzles me.

I appreciate that until now we've been keeping conversations on a fairly impersonal level. Name calling accomplishes nothing except to establish the lack of credentials of the name-caller. So on this subject we both agree that civilized discussion has no room for personal attacks. Yet I don't see why you'd be puzzled that I have an avid interest in a very powerful entity that can directly influence my life on a very basic level. People are interested in a variety of things, like for example, cars. I could point out a few folks that you might have heard about who spend inordinate amounts of time, effort and money on trying to shave half a second from their track time. Now that puzzles me.

If this country bothers you so much, become a citizen and vote for a change.

Interesting idea. Not the usual US way of doing things, though. Maybe the US should try your method to get other countries to change?

Change can come from within or from without. Are you suggesting that only change from within is acceptable methodology?

I do wholeheartedly agree with Robert on one point, without drastic change, we will never be ALLOWED to have decent canidates in which to try and change the status quo.

Since Robert and I also agree, then that means you also agree with me, n'est-ce pas?

[Electrophil]

Thanks for the credit! I get very little of that.

I like Bipa, and I like her opinions. (That is not saying I agree with them all. ) You have to admit she is extremely knowledgeable on what's going on. Please... Do not scare her off. I sincerely believe we will take a loss down here in not exactly SVX without her.

IF! She is not a US citizen, (I think she is, and is pulling our leg), but if she isn't, she has absolutely no right to interfere with our government. I mean... who does she think she is? The U.S.?? If she tried to actually interfere with our governing process, I would consider that an act of war, regardless of how much I personally detest the current administration.

But a personal opinion on our government on this site? Let er' at it! I welcome the challenge if she and I disagree and I welcome the support if she and I happen to agree. I welcome her starting threads on the US to get me fired up. This site, after all, has an international membership.

I would start a thread on Germany...if they ever did anything worth mentioning. (Yawn...).

The bottom line? She's a US citizen living abroad. She can't fool me. She didn't "just happen" to get this current on US events without a broad history of our country to make the info make sense.

I've said all this without reading any of the last few days of posts. I only read your (Tigershark) last couple of posts and replying to them. I may be way out of line here, and if I am, please fire away.. I will deserve it and will take it with respect.

[Electrophil]

Bipa just posted.... Hi Bipa! I'll be back in a few hours to read your last. (Robin has been mad at me for 3 days now..... I'm trying to kiss up. )

[Royal Tiger]

I asked she answered. That seems to be the point of discussion. I was polite, and from what I read, she seemed to be also. When I have the time I'll reply to your questions.

Originally Posted by Electrophil

Bipa just posted.... Hi Bipa! I'll be back in a few hours to read your last. (Robin has been mad at me for 3 days now..... I'm trying to kiss up. )

Ahhh.... so that's why you made dinner the other night. Good luck, and when all else fails and she is still mad, use the "Surrender technique". It is quite fascinating how well it works in a marriage for either spouse. Quite simple actually. You just surrender, and keep surrendering, until the other spouse finally surrenders. At the end, you both get to crawl under the white flag together

[NapaBavarian]

oh noes, I have started a fire...or perhaps I just poured some gasoline on an already burning flame

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by Chiketkd

Hope you had a bunch of fun on Feb 15th!



-Chike

I'm rolling! Hillarious!

Originally Posted by Electrophil

Thanks for the credit! I get very little of that.

I like Bipa, and I like her opinions. (That is not saying I agree with them all. ) You have to admit she is extremely knowledgeable on what's going on. Please... Do not scare her off. I sincerely believe we will take a loss down here in not exactly SVX without her.

IF! She is not a US citizen, (I think she is, and is pulling our leg), but if she isn't, she has absolutely no right to interfere with our government. I mean... who does she think she is? The U.S.?? If she tried to actually interfere with our governing process, I would consider that an act of war, regardless of how much I personally detest the current administration.

But a personal opinion on our government on this site? Let er' at it! I welcome the challenge if she and I disagree and I welcome the support if she and I happen to agree. I welcome her starting threads on the US to get me fired up. This site, after all, has an international membership.

I would start a thread on Germany...if they ever did anything worth mentioning. (Yawn...).

The bottom line? She's a US citizen living abroad. She can't fool me. She didn't "just happen" to get this current on US events without a broad history of our country to make the info make sense.

I've said all this without reading any of the last few days of posts. I only read your (Tigershark) last couple of posts and replying to them. I may be way out of line here, and if I am, please fire away.. I will deserve it and will take it with respect.

Hey! You trying to start a conspiracy thread?

No worries, I don't scare very easily.... so I'll be around for a while yet, whether you like it or not!

I would start a thread on Germany...if they ever did anything worth mentioning. (Yawn...).

That them's fightin' words! Right now we're a little busy over here, what with floods making a disaster of the river Elbe, and government being tied up with an inquiry into the role of the German intelligence service in providing aid to the US. Seems that the former Chancellor Schroeder was playing a little game with the electorate here. On the one hand he publicly kept saying he was against the war in Iraq and so was refusing to cooperate with US plans. All the while he was secretly ordering German intelligence (which had quite a decent network in Iraq) to provide any and all aid. Considering that he won his last election (the previous one, he lost the latest one to Angela Merkl) with a largely anti-US platform, it is turning into a bit of a scandal here.

Then there's.... oh, never mind... just go to my Father-in-Law's favourite tabloid and you'll see all the latest gripping news.
www.bild.de (and then click on the picture of the pretty girl and you'll get an eyeful. Another birthday present )

[NapaBavarian]

WOW! Bipa has a Name That Supercar avitar

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by NapaBavarian

WOW! Bipa has a Name That Supercar avitar

One of the bottles look like Bicardi, what's the other one?

Hey! She's.....

Hey!!