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  #61  
Old 03-05-2004, 06:43 AM
dcarrb dcarrb is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shadow248
Well i'm glad you got my point. I agree with you 100% - buy what you want. I have no intention of turning this into a GM forum, i'm just here to make sure that GM products get the respect they deserve.
If GM products got no respect, they'd soon be out of business. ('Til one day they finally become The Only Car Company In The Entire Known Universe, at which time respect for the product will cease to be an issue.) My bias against the company dates way, way back to when Dad painted cars on the line at Ford. That's a mighty trivial basis for consumer preference, but the reason you or I may prefer this car over that is really irrelevant to the point I've expressed so clumsily.

GM's interest in Subaru has precious little to do with expanding its horizons and everything to do with eliminating competition. Competition in the marketplace is good, as it fosters innovation, checks pricing, and increases consumer options. And critical analysis and debate on such matters (opposed to All-American indifference) is also good. Absent a reasonable solution, hey, it's healthy exercise.


dcb
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  #62  
Old 03-05-2004, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dcarrb
Competition in the marketplace is good, as it fosters innovation, checks pricing, and increases consumer options. And critical analysis and debate on such matters (opposed to All-American indifference) is also good.

dcb

that is correct - i would consider (with some paranoia) a GM product in the future, as their quality control has come a long way in the last few years (or so i read), but it would have to be a nicely styled (problem area), performance car with AWD at a reasonable price (not a problem there for GM, either.) i may sound anti-GM sometimes, but you learn from experience. how many times do you have to be kicked in the nuts before you say, "hey, that hurts! stop it!" i'll wait to see what GM offers in the future.
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  #63  
Old 03-05-2004, 09:55 AM
Shadow248 Shadow248 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Landshark
that is correct - i would consider (with some paranoia) a GM product in the future, as their quality control has come a long way in the last few years (or so i read), but it would have to be a nicely styled (problem area), performance car with AWD at a reasonable price (not a problem there for GM, either.) i may sound anti-GM sometimes, but you learn from experience. how many times do you have to be kicked in the nuts before you say, "hey, that hurts! stop it!" i'll wait to see what GM offers in the future.
This touches on the basis of my point. It works both ways. I would definetly say your experiences with GM are unlucky (as you asked before) and mine are lucky. I know of NO ONE with any GM car that has had that many problems. Not that there aren't any out there, just that I don't know any. I feel it's important to note here that I know a buttload of GM owners. Almost my entire family and most of my friends are all very happy GM owners. My experience has been pretty much the opposite of yours, you have had bad experiences with GM products and good experience with subaru. I've had no major problems with any GM car that i've owned and know of no one with any problematic GM cars, however I know of four Subaru's specifically that have been Lemons to the tenth power. So just as you have formed a bias away from GM, i have done the same away from Subaru.

So there you have it, the "holy grail" of my quest - To make the fine citizens of this community realize that GM is not "da devil" and that there are people out there who don't necessarily think subaru is the answer to world peace (GASP!).
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  #64  
Old 03-05-2004, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shadow248
So there you have it, the "holy grail" of my quest - To make the fine citizens of this community realize that GM is not "da devil" and that there are people out there who don't necessarily think subaru is the answer to world peace (GASP!).
i never thought GM was the devil, just in league with him.

i think anyone who grasps on to a car, computer, etc. manufacturer and supports them without question is a fool. often people will spend a lot of money on something, find out that its not all they were hoping for or even realize they've made a mistake, but yet still endorse that product. a personal pride issue? i dunno. i don't have that hang up - if it sucks i'll say so. i think a lot of people who buy only American cars just keep buying them because they are familiar with them. imports may seem strange and alien to them, and they are afraid they can't run down to the local Jiffy Service or Mr. Lube to have work done for fear of them not having the right parts or training. i know some of my family members have had some bad experience with Fords and GM, but they just keep buying them. i really don't know why.
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  #65  
Old 03-05-2004, 01:31 PM
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chris92svxlsl chris92svxlsl is offline
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the ford /gm rival will continue until the end of time. My first car was a 94 taurus sho, therefore my loyalties lie with ford unfortunately they now have gone to the awd side of the force.
But i do like the focus cosworth...
chevy=dead like a rock
ford=found on road dead
ford=f*cked over rebuilt dodge
....I grew up in a town full of iroc heads I was only 1 of a few ford fans.
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  #66  
Old 03-05-2004, 09:07 PM
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svxxx26 svxxx26 is offline
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Wink Oh My God...Luminas again?

You know the world is really STRANGE when you aren't on the site for a while and you come back and what greets you?

Lumina VS Subaru!! AGAIN??

Listen Shadow, I think you actually have a few good points to make - but can't you find a better example of a GM car to illustrate your argument than the Happy Meal of the automotive world?
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  #67  
Old 03-06-2004, 09:31 PM
Shadow248 Shadow248 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Landshark
i think anyone who grasps on to a car, computer, etc.
manufacturer and supports them without question is a fool. often people will spend a lot of money on something, find out that its not all they were hoping for or even realize they've made a mistake, but yet still endorse that product. a personal pride issue? i dunno. i don't have that hang up - if it sucks i'll say so. i think a lot of people who buy only American cars just keep buying them because they are familiar with them. imports may seem strange and alien to them, and they are afraid they can't run down to the local Jiffy Service or Mr. Lube to have work done for fear of them not having the right parts or training. i know some of my family members have had some bad experience with Fords and GM, but they just keep buying them. i really don't know why.
You know very well if I feel something sucks I will say so. I just have not had any reason to say that any GM vehicle sucks. Some people buy another GM (or any brand) vehicle after they've had a bad one because they realize that maybe they just got a bad example. Kinda like this board refers to every bad subaru as just a bad example. Same thing.

Quote:
Originally posted by Svxxx26Listen Shadow, I think you actually have a few good points to make - but can't you find a better example of a GM car to illustrate your argument than the Happy Meal of the automotive world?
Certainly, I just don't want to start yet another argument.
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  #68  
Old 03-06-2004, 11:00 PM
greg
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shadow248


Certainly, I just don't want to start yet another argument.
I'll tell you what sucks, when you pay $60,000.00 for a GM, and the peice of crap has to have the new owner open the hood every two thousand miles to add oil. But GM says that this normal/okay. All that money and there isn't even a sideview mirror defrost... I know, I know your going to say that every car has a flaw from time to time, No this is a problem, though it varies in milage, ranges through the entire line of northstar engines. Some need oil at three thousand miles and some at four... And to beat that Cadillac claims to that you can change the oil every 7,500 miles according the manual or they recomend as of 2003 following the computers recommended service for oil changes! Thats what I call $60,000 CRAP!



~G
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  #69  
Old 03-06-2004, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by greg


I'll tell you what sucks, when you pay $60,000.00 for a GM, and the peice of crap has to have the new owner open the hood every two thousand miles to add oil. But GM says that this normal/okay. All that money and there isn't even a sideview mirror defrost... I know, I know your going to say that every car has a flaw from time to time, No this is a problem, though it varies in milage, ranges through the entire line of northstar engines. Some need oil at three thousand miles and some at four... And to beat that Cadillac claims to that you can change the oil every 7,500 miles according the manual or they recomend as of 2003 following the computers recommended service for oil changes! Thats what I call $60,000 CRAP!



~G
no, you just have a 'bad example.'
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  #70  
Old 03-07-2004, 12:05 AM
Shadow248 Shadow248 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by greg
I'll tell you what sucks, when you pay $60,000.00 for a GM, and the peice of crap has to have the new owner open the hood every two thousand miles to add oil. But GM says that this normal/okay. All that money and there isn't even a sideview mirror defrost... I know, I know your going to say that every car has a flaw from time to time, No this is a problem, though it varies in milage, ranges through the entire line of northstar engines. Some need oil at three thousand miles and some at four... And to beat that Cadillac claims to that you can change the oil every 7,500 miles according the manual or they recomend as of 2003 following the computers recommended service for oil changes! Thats what I call $60,000 CRAP!
Entire line? I don't know about that. My grandmother and grandfather have bought nothing but Cadillacs since i've been alive (probably goes further back then that). Currently he has a 1998 Eldo and she has a 1997 STS. They travel ALOT so they put more mileage on than most old people, but still i'd say that both cars are under 100K. They've had ZERO problems with both the cars and they both use northstar engines. Also my cousin "in-law" 's father buys a new Caddy every two to three years. Never has ANY problems (this the reason he keeps getting them).

Quote:
Originally posted by Lanshark
no, you just have a 'bad example.'
No you forgot apparently. See it's not a Subaru. If it was, then it would be just a freak incident and not representative of the REAL Subaru. No since it's GM, that means all GM cars do that.
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  #71  
Old 03-07-2004, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shadow248
Also my cousin "in-law" 's father buys a new Caddy every two to three years. Never has ANY problems (this the reason he keeps getting them).
wow, a new car that doesn't blow up for 2-3 years - a testament to GM quality!


Quote:
No you forgot apparently. See it's not a Subaru. If it was, then it would be just a freak incident and not representative of the REAL Subaru. No since it's GM, that means all GM cars do that.
had quite a few GM cars - all crap. have 2 Subarus - no problems. if i do have recurring problems, i probably won't buy any more. ****, if they stick that B11S nose on all the Subarus in the future i may not buy anymore. i have no double standards - why do you keep beating that to death?
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  #72  
Old 03-07-2004, 12:40 AM
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holy ****, the word h-e-l-l is filtered?
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  #73  
Old 03-07-2004, 10:53 AM
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  #74  
Old 03-07-2004, 12:05 PM
Shadow248 Shadow248 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Landshark
had quite a few GM cars - all crap. have 2 Subarus - no problems. if i do have recurring problems, i probably won't buy any more. ****, if they stick that B11S nose on all the Subarus in the future i may not buy anymore. i have no double standards - why do you keep beating that to death?
I'm not just talking about you. I'm talking about the general population of the board. Like i've said before i've had pretty much the complete opposite experience that you've had. I've owned "quite a few" GM cars and they've all proven to be solid reliable cars. In contrast, the three most recent Subaru's in my circle were precisely crap.

Quote:
Originally posted by Landshark
holy ****, the word h-e-l-l is filtered?
Yeah but DAMN isn't. Go ****in figure.
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  #75  
Old 03-07-2004, 05:26 PM
greg
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shadow248


No you forgot apparently. See it's not a Subaru. If it was, then it would be just a freak incident and not representative of the REAL Subaru. No since it's GM, that means all GM cars do that.
I am not here defending Subaru either. I will not ever buy another Subaru either. I just bought a '97 outback that had a cracked head at only 120,000 miles and I have put thousands into my SVX. I love the SVX and to me it is worth every cent, but that Outback was supposed to be a daily driver and it was crap too. Aparently that is a common problem for the 97s. Not to mention the problems I have had here with the dealer and the district rep for Subaru and they have outgrown haveing to be loyal to their customers!

As for your families peice of crap caddys, I guess they got lucky or they change their oil before the level is too low. But my fathers caddy does this and two of his neighbors. One neighbor has a 03 DTS the other an 03 STS and my fathers is a 2001 eldorado. I do not think this is a coincidence!

And to make things worse, my mother will not open a hood therefore she is getting rid of her GM crap and it is already worth nothing. The best she can get for it is 31,000 dollars with 15,000 miles. A $61,000 sticker price and it is worth 50% in one year and a month. I guess everyone knows they are worthless!

~G
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