radiator problem

[jellybytes2]

I spoke to someone at radsus the other day and he is now saying the end of October for more sillas.
Does anyone have another source other than OEM?

[Chucksta]

Or.. Bypass the rad, and just run an aftermarket cooler. I'm sure the rad shop would help you out with that, as guilt is a powerful emotion. Just make sure you seal the rad lines to stop the coolant coming out ( now that there would be no pressure in the lines from the trans) and drive her till the right rad shows up. Also, make sure that they blow the cooling lines clear of trans fluid before capping them.

[dannmarr]

Where is the trans cooler located? They said they replaced that part of the radiator. I can't see any work done. The bottom cover was never removed. The top bolts were not removed. WTF was done?
Can someone shed some light for me?

[Chucksta]

The transmission cooler is located inside the lower tank of the radiator. All you'll see to look at it is one line going in on the driver's side, and one line leading back to the trans from the passenger side of the lower rad tank. All it is is a metal tube that sits in the bottom of the tank, in contact with the coolant. That's why I wrote what I did about bypassing it till a replacement one could be sourced. As you were getting trans fluid in the coolant, it absolutely indicates that the internal tube in the bottom of the rad tank is compromised. As it's probably a relatively minor breach, the higher pressure of the trans fluid, while the engine was running, was pushing trans fluid into the coolant. If you were to bypass the stock, in rad cooler, it might be possible that the pressure of the heated coolant would find it's way into the trans cooling tube as, when bypassed, it would be ave only ambient ( air ) pressure in it. That may result in your coolant landing on the ground unless the ends of the tubes , where they enter and exit the radn should be first blown clean, and then plugged.

A lot of people install an aftermarket cooler... some retain the stock one as well, others bypass it and run the aftermarket as a stand alone cooling solution. Theoretically, you could plumb in a bypass cooler and leave it until.. Well, until the rest of the rad gives up. it is a permanent solution, those that bypassed the factory rad system did just what I suggested... plug the stock one shut and carry on happily without it.

If you go to a stand alone permanently, get a thermostatically controlled one and get a decent quality one. There's one thing that's almost as bad as a transmission that's too hot, and that's one that is too cold. The "other" job of the factory configuration was to help bring the trans up to proper operating temp quickly. It's where it's happiest.

This kinda thing.. You're transmission shop should be able to put it in in less than an hour.

http://www.jegs.com/p/B-M/B-M-SuperC...58370/10002/-1

with one of these kinda things for temp control.

http://www.northernautoparts.com/Pro...ProductId=3164

[dannmarr]

Thanks for the explanation. I do have an external cooler as well as the stock radiator. I just wanted to know if the work was done because I can't see the part replaced or understand how it was replaced without removing the radiator. I'm assuming it wasn't removed because the bottom cover is still zip tied by me and the top screws are still rusted in place. They did tell me to return in a month to flush the trans fluid again.

[michael]

You don't need to remove the bottom cover to get the radiator out, though it would be easier getting the transmission lines off the radiator. As far as fixing the cooling line in the radiator, I don't think it's serviceable. The nipples maybe, but I don't know about the line itself. Either way it's best to just bypass the radiator. If you're really in a pinch there is one at D's in dunmore.

[svxfiles]

Originally Posted by dannmarr

Thanks for the explanation. I do have an external cooler as well as the stock radiator. I just wanted to know if the work was done because I can't see the part replaced or understand how it was replaced without removing the radiator. I'm assuming it wasn't removed because the bottom cover is still zip tied by me and the top screws are still rusted in place. They did tell me to return in a month to flush the trans fluid again.

Unless they took the bottom tank off of the factory radiator and replaced the internal transmission line then they did not do the job, IF that is truely your origional radiator.
With the radiator out of the car to remove the botton tank they would have to bend hundreds af small aluminum tabs enough to wiggle the tank out, then replace or solder the hollow tube.
This would take hours, why bother?!
And when you are done it is still more likely to leak at the seal/rubber gasket!
They could buy a new or used radiator and just be done with it.

[Chucksta]

Wow... At this point, I would be very, very wary of the trans shop. SVXfiles nailed it .. Quite simply, they didn't do the job. It wouldn't have even occurred to me that the trans cooling thing was serviceable. I guess it is, technically, but as pointed out, it would be hours of work. At that point a new rad would obviously be the best route for all concerned.

Unless I'm missing something here, the shop diagnosed the problem, then charged you for a repair that your zip ties say they didn't actually do? Then, they "generously" offer you a free rad replacement, but rads from 4 suppliers won't fit. Meanwhile, your ride just sits there. You have an external cooler, but they don't offer to hook it up so you can drive it until they find a rad that fits. With the external cooler already installed, hooking it as the stand alone trans cooling system would have been a snap.

They want you to return in a month to flush the trans again... Now that's weird.. So if I'm piecing this together right, the trans shop "rebuilt" it, it didn't work, they sent it to a rad shop, yet the rad appears to have never been out of the car. " Come back in a month " implies that they've given it to you to drive. A couple of possibilities come to mind. Let's assume that the rad has never been removed from the vehicle. They might have put seal conditioner in the trans, hoping that it was leaking from a seal. Maybe they actually did send it to a rad shop, in good faith, and the rad shop dropped the ball. IMHO, it's time for a second opinion.

Here's another thought. the rad's internal transmission cooling line was allowing trans fluid into the coolant. Yes, absolutely, there's no other way it could have gotten in there. As previously noted, it happened when the engine was running, and the pressure of the trans fluid was greater than the pressure of the coolant in the rad. However, when you stop the engine, the transmission fluid pressure drops to zero immediately, while the cooling stays pressurized until the system cools. It would be during this time that coolant could enter the transmission fluid. Why does the trans shop want you back in a month and not simply flush it now? Could it be they want to see if there's contamination in the form of coolant? Also, "flush" is a very loose term, unless they drain the torque converter, it's actually a partial change.

Proceed with caution.

[dannmarr]

I took the bottom cover off. No work was done. They did flush the trans, it is super clean. But...... the radiator has trans fluid in it. So they didn't even flush out the radiator. I had enough! I like the idea of bypassing the radiator, but I'm in no rush, I'll just park the car and wait for a new radiator and do it myself. Thanks for everyone's help!

[svxfiles]

I am sorry that you had a bad garage experience.
It only takes one salesperson/mechanic/home repair guy to screw it up for the rest of us.
A good friend of mine was recently quoted $1200.00 for four ball joints.
CHEAP ball joints, (to SAVE HER MONEY) They wanted 6.5 hour @$85.00 an hour, an d about $600.00 for the ball joints.
Advance has them, all four for less than $200.00, for Moog!

[dannmarr]

I called my family Mechanic and told him my radiator has some trans fluid in it. I didnt say anything about my ordeal with the trans shop. He said exactly what chuksta mentioned to bypass the radiator and hook up a trans cooler. When I said I already have an external cooler he said exactly what Chucksta mentioned again, why didnt the trans shop hook it up?
So my mechanic offered to do the bypass with a full flush and replace any hoses needed for $40. I am so Thanks Chucksta! and everyone else on this forum!

[dannmarr]

My mechanic recently replaced a radiator for a forum member and had the old one laying around. He opened it up to show me the trans cooler inside that is one small cooler! It doesnt get any air flow through it, it sits on the bottom of the radiator and uses the cooled antifreeze as a heat exchanger. I highly recommend to get an external trans cooler for our cars! I had the trans cooler bypassed and used my external cooler. After seeing what I saw, Im glad I did this!

[Chucksta]

Make sure the family mechanic checks that the cooler has a thermostatic valve. It's easy to tell, just by looking at it. If it doesn't, get one. An over cooled trans is just about as bad as an overheated one. It was designed to have an optimal operating temperature.

I'm glad you found someone who is helping you for $40.00.. That's great news.

As a side note, don't be misled by the small size of the cooling loop in the radiator. Metal to liquid heat transfer doesn't require a lot of surface area to be effective. Also, as I've learned from the great bank of knowledge on this site, the cooling line in the radiator also helps get the transmission fluid up to temperature ASAP in cold weather conditions. I don't know how much quicker, and that question would be grounds for some great philosophical debate. In a perfect world, the fluid would go through the radiator, and then to the cooler, whose thermostatic valve would divert it through the cooling fins seldom, if ever. The SVX radiator is a high flow design, meaning that there should be less difference in coolant temperature between the top ( inlet ) of the radiator, and the lower tank ( where the cooling coil sits ), as opposed to a lot of other designs. As the radiator gets older, it will lose more and more of it's thermal efficiency at transferring heat. At that point, when severe heat conditions, and "spirited driving" tax the abilities of the system, the radiator coolant temperature passes 200 degrees, the fans kick on high to keep it from boiling over. At that point, the coolant circuit in radiator would be hard pressed to keep the transmission fluid much under 200 degrees, at which point, it's too hot, and it's adding a heat load to an already taxed cooling system. Although metal to liquid is an efficient method of heat transfer, it is also dependent on the temperature variance between the two. This scenario is where an auxiliary cooling system shines. It's like a spare radiator for the system, it cools the transmission fluid so that the radiator doesn't have to.

Ummm... thermodynamics lecture now over.. LOL.. Bypass it, drive it, enjoy it. But do keep your eye open for a rad...