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#16
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The following statement is NOT intended to be offensive to any of the participants in this discussion of sound waves far beyond my comprehension. However, just as in any debate about hairsplitting differences regarding the merits many products, how much is simply mental masterbation? Do we too often do battle over minute differences in the SOURCE of satisfaction, be it sound, a painting, or (my favorite), wine; rather than accepting that the RECEPTORS - eyes, noses, & ears, provide the real difference? The variations are infinate.
Some folks love liverwurst, some folks would gag on it. Is it the liverwurst or the tastebuds? Granted, this is a comment from someone still happy with 20 year old Koss headphones, "dogs playing poker" & a legendary taste for blended wines - (mix a little Chardonney with Grenache). Your tastes may vary - Ron.
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Good s**t happened. 69 was worth the wait. '92 stock semi-pristine ebony - 160K '96 Grand Caravan - 240K '01 Miata SE - 79K '07 Chrysler Pacifica - 60k - future money pit. |
#17
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I understand that you have your little pet peeves on these issues, but please don't bring them to me or use any statement of mine as an example in your soapbox rhetoric. You're barking up the wrong tree. Quote:
As for the specifics... we are bonding 1/2in MDF to the bottom of the existing rear deck, enlarging the speaker openings to give good airflow, and mounting two 10" infinite baffle subs in more or less the stock 6x9 locations. The subs in question are both 8 ohm and designed specifically for this application, and will be driven at 4 ohms off a 250x1 regulated mono channel. Damping factor on that amp is in excess of 500 so it should deliver an acceptable level of control over the drivers. The trunk will be damped with thin sound deadening insulation (Dynamat if you're curious), and the rear seat passthrough will be sealed off with a rubber grommeted MDF plate. The whole object is to prevent the back wave from interacting with the front wave, as the gross volumetric distances in the trunk are fixed and can't be easily tuned. Quote:
For example... in a completely dark room, walk up to a wall. Even if you are making no sound and the room is carpeted, you can "hear" the location of the wall... that is high frequency spatial acoustics. In reproduced sound that frequency range delivers the sensation of space in the recording environment, especially in a live recording that is properly mastered. CD audio attenuates above 22,500hz, while SACD and DVD Audio extend well above that into the 30k and 40k realm, and up in the case of SACD. Your work in hearing enhancement must be very rewarding... it is a beautiful thing to see someone hear something again that they thought was lost to them... it is a great gift. Best of luck to you. Quote:
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-J. Porter Last edited by Porter; 11-26-2002 at 12:34 PM. |
#18
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Should I replace it with some of that #8 fencing wire?
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Dick ************** 1999 Legacy GT 30th Anniversary Edition 2001 Outback Sport |
#19
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CJ |
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Todd
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Down to none |
#21
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I'm hoping we can work duct tape into this discussion, as well. Ron (Tacky-R-Us).
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Good s**t happened. 69 was worth the wait. '92 stock semi-pristine ebony - 160K '96 Grand Caravan - 240K '01 Miata SE - 79K '07 Chrysler Pacifica - 60k - future money pit. |
#22
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Duct tape IS manna from heaven!
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#23
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Randy (Defending the used ta be's) ii |
#24
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Ron you are a wise man to sit back and enjoy the music as was my earlier advice.
Having been in this argument before which always falls back on perceived performance. I should have stayed well clear as I will do from now on. It is a bit like debating the taste of wine but gets more intense. The use of complicated language is however much the same. You know the one about old fools and I am one. Jason, you have some Ca$h in you and I like you both. You both will mature well I am sure and I say this with good will. I am tempted to quote and dissect your reply as you have done mine relying purely on scientifically proven fact. But as I do agree with you in regard to many points you make and I respect and admire your enthusiasm I will not do so. I do not accept the tone of sarcasm which remains. At this point I make a note for other readers i.e. this type of argument does not normally result in violence and you will note that we could someday meet for drinks and are meantime having fun. Jason I will stand alongside you and shout with you in respect of the defects relating ported enclosures. It is impossible to produce an infinite baffle as the animal does not exist but on a practical basis one can get close to it. However from what you describe you are creating what is no more than the largest possible enclosure which I agree is the very best approach in view of the mechanical limitations involved but as you confirm you are still involved with a Ò tuned Ò enclosure. Consider the possibility of an unrestricted vent to outside the car. In effect the car becomes a very large enclosure and you are within it. The effects are the same with regard to sound wave separation but reversed. I have done this and be sure your local audio community will sit up and take notice. You will have to provide an opening in the trunk floor which can be in the form of a louvered panel. However you can first experiment by leaving the lid ajar and no pain in this. I will now leave you to your psychacoustics as the supreme authority on audio here on the net, free to answer all future queries without decent. P.S. N.B. Ron wins on the basis of IQ. -T. R. Sheffield
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! |
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CJ |
#26
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just cut a little patch and put it on for a week and presto, duct tape has done it again. Some years ago I used to assert all one needed was a BFH to get a job done - and now I have to admit my error in correct thinking - it should have been a BF roll of duct tape. Thank you all for your suggestions and opinions - it's how I learn. |
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P.S. N.B. Ron wins on the basis of IQ.
-T. R. Sheffield [/B][/QUOTE] Trevor, my dear friend; do not confuse IQ with laziness. All of you possess far more talent with the technical aspects of audio, & many other subjects than I. If it weren't for folks like you, even my ancient Koss headset wouldn't exist. Thanks to the ants. Ron - the grasshopper.
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Good s**t happened. 69 was worth the wait. '92 stock semi-pristine ebony - 160K '96 Grand Caravan - 240K '01 Miata SE - 79K '07 Chrysler Pacifica - 60k - future money pit. |
#28
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My Dahlquists have MAGNATs... they're DQM-909s.
Trevor... your points are well taken and duly noted. Certainly you are correct in your points, though you look at things in a rather unusual way, at least from an American point of view. I understand why you feel that I have some qualities in common with Ca$h... we both refuse to allow ourselves to be steamrolled by the status quo, and we take it as a personal affront when we are mocked in a public forum in tones of condescension. Beyond that I'm not sure where the similarities lie. The problem on the audio issue is something like that of the philosopher talking to the astrophysicist... the philosopher thinks of the Earth orbiting around the sun and rotating in its orbit and all other space being "outside", while the astrophysicist thinks of Sol and several associated rocks (with atmospheres) that vibrate around it erratically on its long course into deep space. I think in practical terms and try to speak in pragmatic language... you think in terms of scientific absolutes and attempt to communicate in the same way. It doesn't mean either of us are necessarily right, it's simply two vastly different ways of looking at the world. So, c'est la vie. Let's have a beer and not worry about it. P.S. - Absolutely right on "infinite baffle" being impossible in a closed space... the two concepts are by definition contradictory... my use of "infinite baffle" refers the COMMON USAGE of the term, which would indicate any sub mounted in a "free-air" fashion, with no specific tuned box enclosure and a motor structure designed for non-pressurized voice coil control. By pure definition, an infinite baffle sub arrangement in the location which I suggest would involve removing the entire back of the car in order to eliminate sonic reflection. This is of course absurd so I assumed incorrectly that you would understand my usage of the term. Last edited by Porter; 11-26-2002 at 09:10 PM. |
#29
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I beg of you to please let me hear your system when you're done, Porter. I've never heard of an infinite baffle except as one of those buzzwords talking about home audio stuff when in the end it sounded worse than similar priced tried and true designs. I grew to just ignore it and never payed it any attention in your post until you two started to go at it.
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#30
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Sure, man! Drop me an email, we need to hang out anyway and have a Sube meet in Greenville sometime in early December.
-Porter asphaltsurfer@charter.net |
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