even more frightening everyone should watch

[Motorsport-SVX]

look, you follow and believe who you want and Ill do the same.
Some people just never get it.

[Green1995SVX]

What I'm trying to do is believe what you're saying by giving it a fair opportunity.

I like to look at factual evidence and make my own conclusions. Isn't that what we all should be doing?

Mike

[sunvalleyray]

It is interesting that people are now worried about our constitution but were not concerned when the previous adminstration lied to started an unjustied war, took away many of our civil liberties, justified torture and not only allowed but assisted Wall Street in stealing Trillions of dollars. History teaches us that fear (and perceived threats) many times are a greater threat than reality.

If one is looking for concerns "The Family" AKA "The Fellowship", Glen Beck and his guru Cleon Skousen!

sunvalleyray

[SoCal LS-L]

Bulgaria is nice this time of year.......

[dcarrb]

I saw this single-panel comic recently: A boardroom setting, business-types seated around a table viewing a chart with one graph nearing the top labeled ACCESS TO INFORMATION, and one reaching the bottom labeled APPLICATION OF COMMON SENSE. The caption read (to paraphrase from recollection):

At this rate we'll soon be the best informed extinct species on the planet.

dcb

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by sunvalleyray

It is interesting that people are now worried about our constitution but were not concerned when the previous adminstration lied to started an unjustied war, took away many of our civil liberties, justified torture and not only allowed but assisted Wall Street in stealing Trillions of dollars. History teaches us that fear (and perceived threats) many times are a greater threat than reality.

If one is looking for concerns "The Family" AKA "The Fellowship", Glen Beck and his guru Cleon Skousen!

sunvalleyray

I love the uninformed. Go back and review WHY we went to war and WHO voted to support it almost unamiously. Such short memories. ALSO review WHO kept the last administration from reforming financial institutions and from placing controls on them!!!!!!!!!!!

This is exactly what Dayle is referring to. DON'T just depend on the mainstream (mostly liberal) media to force feed you THEIR interpretation. READ, RESEARCH and most of all CHECK out ALL information sources.

Lee

[lhopp77]

The way I read it, Dayle is only encouraging you to research it for yourself. Check out and research COP15. Read all about it. DO NOT just depend on the mainstream mostly liberal media to give you THEIR interpretation. READ and THINK.

Of course the Wall Street Journal is by far a more balanced and unbiased news source than the NYT and the three major news networks. But.....check them all and then actually read legislation/treaties/agreements, etc and think for yourself.

Lee

[sicksubie]

Interesting spin now as the whole email scandal has now surfaced where scientists admit to fudging the numbers and their research in regards to climate change...

[K_Dub]

Has anybody, in their own research, found anything at all to support this guy's claims? I've been looking, and all I've found are caps on carbon output with a sliding scale to allow less developed nations a higher amount than those who got a jump start on industrialization. That's a long, slippery slope, away from some "world gov't that redistributes wealth." He claims to hold a copy of the treaty in his hand, but never names it or attributes the conference that plans to sign it.

I'm just wondering what, after all this talk of research, other's have found. Perhaps we can have an educated discussion with sources and research before we jump on the wagon with the "commies are coming" guy.

[K_Dub]

Go !

http://www.350.org/treaty-tracker

Click where it says "The latest draft"

It's 200 pages, so this'll take a while. But it gets interesting on page 9 sec 3-4. I don't want to spoil it, but there's an "Alternative to paragraphs 1-4" which completely negates any of what is previously stated. This is a rough draft, and as we've learned with healthcare and so many others, there's no telling what'll happen when we get a bunch of politicians in a room together. But it is interesting to see for myself.

And thanks to Motorsport for sparking my interest. Guys like Lord Watzisname seldom tell the whole story, but at least they yell loud enough that it gets people's attention.

/Back to reading and googling

[sunvalleyray]

"You might love the uniformed" but I love the intolerant. One of our problems is that when someone does not agree with one's point of view they are labeled wrong. There is a concept called higher ignorance which states the more you know the more you realize you will never know all there is to know about any subject. Opinions regardless of who holds them are not absolutes and labeling and name calling does injustice to polite and honest discourse. We are all buying into the media habit of sound bits; life and issues are much too complex to be reduced to such sophomoric tactics. After forty three years of study, both academic and private, I realize my opinions are just that, my opinions, not fact. I believe two contrary views can both be right depending on future events which no one can predict.

I think most of us can agree on one topic...we love our SVX'S!

sunvalleyray

[Green1995SVX]

Originally Posted by sunvalleyray

"You might love the uniformed" but I love the intolerant. One of our problems is that when someone does not agree with one's point of view they are labeled wrong. There is a concept called higher ignorance which states the more you know the more you realize you will never know all there is to know about any subject. Opinions regardless of who holds them are not absolutes and labeling and name calling does injustice to polite and honest discourse. We are all buying into the media habit of sound bits; life and issues are much too complex to be reduced to such sophomoric tactics. After forty three years of study, both academic and private, I realize my opinions are just that, my opinions, not fact. I believe two contrary views can both be right depending on future events which no one can predict.

I think most of us can agree on one topic...we love our SVX'S!

sunvalleyray

This is the best post I've read in a very long time!

[Motorsport-SVX]

I've only seen little bits about the treaty and
none of it looks good..

But never ignore treaty issues.
TREATIES trump the Constitution.
And they cannot be undone.
Is is the one flaw in the constitution.

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by sunvalleyray

"You might love the uniformed" but I love the intolerant. One of our problems is that when someone does not agree with one's point of view they are labeled wrong. There is a concept called higher ignorance which states the more you know the more you realize you will never know all there is to know about any subject. Opinions regardless of who holds them are not absolutes and labeling and name calling does injustice to polite and honest discourse. We are all buying into the media habit of sound bits; life and issues are much too complex to be reduced to such sophomoric tactics. After forty three years of study, both academic and private, I realize my opinions are just that, my opinions, not fact. I believe two contrary views can both be right depending on future events which no one can predict.

I think most of us can agree on one topic...we love our SVX'S!

sunvalleyray

There is a distinct difference in differing opinions from purely erroneous data. My post in response to yours was erroneous data, possibly from lack of recollection of what really happened, but most likely from depending on the liberal media to feed you THEIR opinions and slant and not actual facts.

Again, I challenge you to go back and read what all were saying about Iraq to include WMDs and HOW they voted. If you want to discuss HOW the war was conducted, then we might have different opinions. The WHY we went to war can be verified by research.

Lee

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by Green1995SVX

This is the best post I've read in a very long time!

You're to easy.

Lee