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  #46  
Old 04-29-2008, 06:37 AM
RSVX RSVX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
I apologise unreservedly towards any members I may have unintentionally upset.

However, I become very irritated when those who claim special credentials post in absolute terms advice in error, when this is detrimental to members and could involve them in considerable strife.

The patronising insinuating threat by way of personal instruction, now directed towards me, has an unfortunate overtone and I contend is in spirit, exactly against the rules i.e., --- First and foremost, please treat all members with the same amount of respect you wish to receive.

“In the future, if you dont want your valid troubleshooting help removed, you need to learn to conduct yourself like an adult”

N.B. Most will know that in no respect am I childish. I am 79 years old.

Sincerely, Trevor.
Trevor,
I appreciate the apology.

In addressing your later comment I can say only this: Yes, I am aware that you are 79. But age doesn't preclude you, me, or anyone else from losing sight of better judgment and acting childish on occasion.

The point of the above quoted statement may have been taken as a direct stab at you, but it more so a reminder to the general public that we are watching, and will be doing our best to more evenly enforce the rules here when it comes to situations that may arise in the hopes of keeping civil tones and valid commentary. We hope to never have to ban someone permanently, as done in the past, and this more hands on approach is in hopes of preventing such actions in the future.

I and the rest of the Admin/Mod Team are always open to suggestions and or criticism. In fact, we welcome it as it helps us keep balance.
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  #47  
Old 04-29-2008, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by RSVX View Post
Trevor,
I appreciate the apology.

In addressing your later comment I can say only this: Yes, I am aware that you are 79. But age doesn't preclude you, me, or anyone else from losing sight of better judgment and acting childish on occasion.

The point of the above quoted statement may have been taken as a direct stab at you, but it more so a reminder to the general public that we are watching, and will be doing our best to more evenly enforce the rules here when it comes to situations that may arise in the hopes of keeping civil tones and valid commentary. We hope to never have to ban someone permanently, as done in the past, and this more hands on approach is in hopes of preventing such actions in the future.

I and the rest of the Admin/Mod Team are always open to suggestions and or criticism. In fact, we welcome it as it helps us keep balance.
Chris,

I continue with my concern that anyone who is officially acknowledged and also claims to have credentials, should persist in recording in an absolute manner, what should be expressed only as an opinion. When dubious inflexible advice, leads members towards possible unnecessary expense and hardship, the situation becomes intolerable.

This has been going on for a very long time and when critical mistakes have been recorded, only to require correction by those astute, the effort required in so doing has often been huge. More important is the fact that serious mistakes have never been accepted, much less an apology, or even an excuse offered.

Those who provide help by making flexible suggestions, obviously do not fall within this category. Throwing up possibilities is always helpful, arrogant instruction is not.
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  #48  
Old 04-29-2008, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
Chris,

I continue with my concern that anyone who is officially acknowledged and also claims to have credentials, should persist in recording in an absolute manner, what should be expressed only as an opinion. When dubious inflexible advice, leads members towards possible unnecessary expense and hardship, the situation becomes intolerable.

This has been going on for a very long time and when critical mistakes have been recorded, only to require correction by those astute, the effort required in so doing has often been huge. More important is the fact that serious mistakes have never been accepted, much less an apology, or even an excuse offered.

Those who provide help by making flexible suggestions, obviously do not fall within this category. Throwing up possibilities is always helpful, arrogant instruction is not.
I would also like to record my thanks to Trevor for acknowledging the problem with the thread and apologising.

However I would have to differ strongly on your contention Trevor in your first paragraph. Your statement "When dubious inflexible advice, leads members towards possible unnecessary expense and hardship, the situation becomes intolerable." is contentious and unsustainable.

This is an amateur forum and any and all advice that is volunteered in response to member's problems has to be accepted by the members on that basis. There is no warranty here that any information will be accurate, and that applies whether the person volunteering the information has a Doctorate in Engineering, or is just some ordinary SVX owner responding because he or she dealt with the same problem.

Without deconstructing everything you have said, two points in the sentence above stick out as contentious;

1) "Leads members towards possible unnecessary expense and hardship"

Members need to make their own minds up on what advice is correct and trustworthy before they commit to expense or difficult strip-downs.

I am on this Network for many years and I have yet to see a post from a member coming back and saying "You sons of !$%& es cost me a lot of expense because you gave me wrong advice!"

And
2) "The situation becomes intolerable"

Intolerable is a very strong word.

This network is set up with the stated aim of helping members keep their cars in good condition. Amateur help and advice is given in good faith, for members to accept or reject as they see fit. Intolerance has no place in such a social network. Our stated goal is to work with one another for the common good, not be intolerant of perceived inaccuracies.

Having said that, in the case of both you and Harvey, there have been some heated statements from both of you in past threads. I am going to go back in the records and delete posts that break posting rules, from whichever source. With the disputed material cleaned up perhaps you two guys could get on a little better and just get back to helping our members? That would be a good start. Thanks.

Joe
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  #49  
Old 04-29-2008, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by svxistentialist View Post
I would also like to record my thanks to Trevor for acknowledging the problem with the thread and apologising.

However I would have to differ strongly on your contention Trevor in your first paragraph. Your statement "When dubious inflexible advice, leads members towards possible unnecessary expense and hardship, the situation becomes intolerable." is contentious and unsustainable.

This is an amateur forum and any and all advice that is volunteered in response to member's problems has to be accepted by the members on that basis. There is no warranty here that any information will be accurate, and that applies whether the person volunteering the information has a Doctorate in Engineering, or is just some ordinary SVX owner responding because he or she dealt with the same problem.

Without deconstructing everything you have said, two points in the sentence above stick out as contentious;

1) "Leads members towards possible unnecessary expense and hardship"

Members need to make their own minds up on what advice is correct and trustworthy before they commit to expense or difficult strip-downs.

I am on this Network for many years and I have yet to see a post from a member coming back and saying "You sons of !$%& es cost me a lot of expense because you gave me wrong advice!"

And
2) "The situation becomes intolerable"

Intolerable is a very strong word.

This network is set up with the stated aim of helping members keep their cars in good condition. Amateur help and advice is given in good faith, for members to accept or reject as they see fit. Intolerance has no place in such a social network. Our stated goal is to work with one another for the common good, not be intolerant of perceived inaccuracies.

Having said that, in the case of both you and Harvey, there have been some heated statements from both of you in past threads. I am going to go back in the records and delete posts that break posting rules, from whichever source. With the disputed material cleaned up perhaps you two guys could get on a little better and just get back to helping our members? That would be a good start. Thanks.

Joe
Joe,

I have not mentioned Harvey’s name. You have fitted his cap which rather confirms your thoughts. I have put forward sincere reasons why members are disadvantaged, when presented with incorrect information which is officially reinforced.

Amongst many irrelevant words, you have stated :- “I am going to go back in the records and delete posts that break posting rules, from whichever source.” i.e. you will personally overrule previous valid judgement and pre-empt the law.

Censoring past records, including a thread containing a post of approval by the founder of this network is a bold threat. Your sole purpose can only be towards protecting Harvey from the need to correct gross errors and apologise for slanderous statements.

The threat to destroy evidence is frankly dishonest. The results of your meddling will be observed with keen interest. Make sure your blue pencil is sharp.

Trevor.
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  #50  
Old 04-30-2008, 02:19 AM
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Trevor

Only somebody recently returned from Mars would not know that the problem on this thread and many others is because of personal animosity between you and Harvey, so I see no point in being coy about this.

Your interpretation of what I propose in deleting personally insulting posts is interesting.

We are not in a court of law here, but the "evidence" I intend to delete will mainly be evidence of exceptionally bad manners and bad taste in the conduct of network correspondence.

You need not fear that I will "meddle" with anything of a technical nature. Nor should you worry about Chris founder, Chris is completely behind any action the admin team have to make to sort out this mess, knowing that we are applying THE RULES where members are overstepping very clearly defined boundaries.

Joe
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  #51  
Old 04-30-2008, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svxistentialist View Post
Trevor

Only somebody recently returned from Mars would not know that the problem on this thread and many others is because of personal animosity between you and Harvey, so I see no point in being coy about this.

Your interpretation of what I propose in deleting personally insulting posts is interesting.

We are not in a court of law here, but the "evidence" I intend to delete will mainly be evidence of exceptionally bad manners and bad taste in the conduct of network correspondence.

You need not fear that I will "meddle" with anything of a technical nature. Nor should you worry about Chris founder, Chris is completely behind any action the admin team have to make to sort out this mess, knowing that we are applying THE RULES where members are overstepping very clearly defined boundaries.

Joe
Joe,

The problem is not from Mars and comprises a complete thread started by Harvey with the express object of discrediting me. As a direct result I found it necessary to spend endless time in defence, in order to clear my name and prove that I was correct. No apology or acceptance of error was ever forthcoming from Harvey, nor was this requested by moderators. Now you have the temerity to raise the matter in retrospect and against me.

You confirm that you are unable to define boundaries/rules with fairness or logic. Your latest transgression is to destroy evidence. It will be interesting to have confirmed exactly that which you define as exceptionally bad manners and bad taste. Anticipating what has now come to pass, yonks ago I recorded two pertinent threads on disk. Here are extracts from Harvey's statements in part of one thread:-

“Post #17
Well I must admit that there was an ulterior motive for this thread. It was to bring to the attention of all the readers of this Network, that the Theory that you have infested the forums with, is erroneous, misleading, and a Technical embarrassment to the fine reputation of this Network for supplying helpful, and accurate information.

The posts that you have posted, and the article, are misleading and utterly wrong. I would suggest that to uphold the integrity, of the Subaru-SVX. Net, that you either correct them, or do the right thing by the Forum, and delete them.

Post #20. So I again ask, that you correct these statements, or do the right thing by the Network and delete them.

Post # 22.
All this crap you go on with, comes down to the fact that you can not conceive that the A, B,C, solenoids in the gear box, the Power steering solenoid, the Idle Air Control solenoid, the Carbon canister Purge solenoid, Exhaust Recirculation valves solenoid, the Air Con Actuator solenoid, are all driven by a Pulse Width Modulated signal to be smoothly moved, to any position, and held there by the Duty Cycle signal.

I again ask you to correct, or delete the unsupported claims you have made in posts on this Net.”


The issue involved was in no way trivial, nor is it a mess requiring poorly directed sorting. As a matter of real concern, accurate information available to members was in jeopardy.

My grievance has a sound, logical basis. The accurate write up, which Harvey arrogantly wrongly insisted be removed from the network, and which I found it necessary to successfully defended, is included below.

You now retain the option of silencing me by imposing a ban. Such is the slant of the contest. Whatever, I am confident that the accurate information I have recorded over the years, will prove more useful than dubious internally promoted management strata. That is, provided my text is left intact.


DUTY SOLENOID A.

A pulse width modulated duty solenoid valve, ( Sometimes known as a pulsoid), as is incorporated in the SVX transmission control system, adjusts pressure in the following manner :-

The fluid line is provided with a bleed or bypass via an on/off device in the form of an electrically operated valve. This solenoid valve is opened and closed repeatedly, in a rhythmical manner by a control current which is turned very rapidly on and off by the transmission control unit (TCU). The valve is a normally closed device, and remains closed in the event of the loss off a control current.

After passing through this modulated solenoid valve, the continually interrupted pressure is in the form of a pulsed flow. When the peaks level off with the troughs there is a resulting overall steady reduced pressure. The level of this pressure is adjusted by varying the on/off intervals. Most often the length of the on time is adjusted and the number of on/off pulses per second is kept constant. The usual rate is around 50 cycles per second.

The resulting adjusted output pressure is therefore delivered as a fluctuating stream. The system incorporates an expansion chamber as a smoothing element, which works as a sort of cushion. This device is usually in the form of a cylinder and piston or diaphragm, backed by a coil spring. In the SVX system the component is described as a Pressure Modifier Accumulator. The high pressure peaks in the stream press the piston outwards and become rounded off, while the low pressure troughs are filled in as a result of the piston moving inwards under spring pressure. The end result is a smoother level of pressure, such that controlled devices are not materially affected.

An increase in the volume controlled is achieved by transferring the solenoid regulated pressure to a pressure modifier valve and a regulator valve.

It should be clear that by “chopping” the fluid supply in an adjustable way, pressure control is achieved economically using a simple poppet type solenoid valve, with few mechanical or electrical complications. However the valve remains in a continuos cycling mode, which can impose rather arduous mechanical stresses.

THE DROPPING RESISTOR CIRCUIT.

It will be immediately apparent that a sudden on off cycle tends to cause what could be called a hammering of the valve seat, even though this is largely checked by the controlled fluid flow. The dropping resistor introduces a second series of current pulses, applied in parallel with the control signal. These shorter pulses are applied during the off cycles and timed to check the travel of the armature as it reaches the closed position, thus reducing both shock and noise.

These secondary parallel signals in effect “rounds off”, the closing period and reduces the closing shock. This arrangement can if required, be made even more sophisticated and configured so as to soften the the opening cycle, as well as the closing of the valve.

It will be appreciated that reducing the resistance in the circuit, or opening the circuit by omitting the resistor, has two outcomes. Firstly the relative on time is increased thus increasing the line pressure. Importantly as a second issue, increased shock loads are applied to the valve.

SOLENOID C

The same principals apply, but the duty is less arduous and therefore no parallel circuit is incorporated.

-------------------
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  #52  
Old 04-30-2008, 01:27 PM
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Hi Trevor

Thank you for the very long post laying out the areas you see as part of the original disagreement on the technical issues. These are matters which are of interest to those among the membership who are technically minded, and be assured that I will not nor will any other mod remove these posts, they are part of the record of discovery on how the SVX works and important to the body of knowledge as such.

However, on a point of order I am now giving you a direct, personal and pointed public warning.

In your last two responses to me Trevor, and for the record I am both a Moderator and an Administrator, you have used language and terminology that is at the very best intemperate and from a more negative point of view it could be interpreted by somebody less thick-skinned than I am as insulting.

From post #49:

You maintained that my words as a Moderator and Administrator are "irrelevant"

You purport that my "sole purpose" in seeking to remove insulting posts from this past disagreement is for "protecting Harvey", which remark has no basis in anything I have ever said on the matter.

You maintain that I or my motives are "frankly dishonest", to which remark I take deep and personal exception.

You accuse me of "meddling"

From post #51

You maintain that as Moderator and Administrator I have "the temerity" to raise a matter "against you"

You make the presumptuous statement that I plan to "destroy evidence".

You contend that my plan to clean up threads by removing offensive or insulting posts is a "transgression". Against what, exactly?

I don't find it at all surprising that you will be interested to see what exact posts can be defined as being exceptionally bad mannered or in bad taste. It is patently obvious from these two quoted posts here that you are far better at discerning that which is technically accurate than you are at gauging how offensive or aggressive your remarks will appear to other members.

While I respect that you are quite passionate in your pursuit of accurate statements, do not make the mistake that this respect is any sign of weakness on my part.

Just ONE more remark like those quoted above to me and you will be having a time out.

Joe
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Last edited by svxistentialist; 04-30-2008 at 07:03 PM.
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  #53  
Old 04-30-2008, 06:39 PM
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My prospective...

I welcome all responses to my inquires as efforts to help me find a solution and carefully consider each of them with a spirit of gratitude… That is part of the learning process for me and dismissing the ones that don’t work their way into the equation is usually an easy process. Most all the input can be a learning process with two different outcomes.
One would be to say thanks… that makes sense… the other one would be just thanks!


Love this form!!

Keith
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  #54  
Old 05-01-2008, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by kwren View Post
I welcome all responses to my inquires as efforts to help me find a solution and carefully consider each of them with a spirit of gratitude… That is part of the learning process for me and dismissing the ones that don’t work their way into the equation is usually an easy process. Most all the input can be a learning process with two different outcomes.
One would be to say thanks… that makes sense… the other one would be just thanks!


Love this form!!

Keith
Greetings Keith,

Just in case I am banned, I shake you by the hand as you stand very tall having earned the utmost respect. On that basis you deserve an STI gong.

Cheers, Trevor.
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  #55  
Old 05-01-2008, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by svxistentialist View Post
Hi Trevor

Thank you for the very long post laying out the areas you see as part of the original disagreement on the technical issues. These are matters which are of interest to those among the membership who are technically minded, and be assured that I will not nor will any other mod remove these posts, they are part of the record of discovery on how the SVX works and important to the body of knowledge as such.

However, on a point of order I am now giving you a direct, personal and pointed public warning.

In your last two responses to me Trevor, and for the record I am both a Moderator and an Administrator, you have used language and terminology that is at the very best intemperate and from a more negative point of view it could be interpreted by somebody less thick-skinned than I am as insulting.

From post #49:

You maintained that my words as a Moderator and Administrator are "irrelevant"

You purport that my "sole purpose" in seeking to remove insulting posts from this past disagreement is for "protecting Harvey", which remark has no basis in anything I have ever said on the matter.

You maintain that I or my motives are "frankly dishonest", to which remark I take deep and personal exception.

You accuse me of "meddling"

From post #51

You maintain that as Moderator and Administrator I have "the temerity" to raise a matter "against you"

You make the presumptuous statement that I plan to "destroy evidence".

You contend that my plan to clean up threads by removing offensive or insulting posts is a "transgression". Against what, exactly?

I don't find it at all surprising that you will be interested to see what exact posts can be defined as being exceptionally bad mannered or in bad taste. It is patently obvious from these two quoted posts here that you are far better at discerning that which is technically accurate than you are at gauging how offensive or aggressive your remarks will appear to other members.

While I respect that you are quite passionate in your pursuit of accurate statements, do not make the mistake that this respect is any sign of weakness on my part.

Just ONE more remark like those quoted above to me and you will be having a time out.

Joe


Joe,

Alike with your claim, I am not thin skinned, but I have been threatened for doing no more than calling a spade a spade. This raises the hair on the back of my neck.

Joe --- However, on a point of order I am now giving you a direct, personal and pointed public warning.

You are excited to record that you are both a moderator and an administrator. You disclose no more than that. Several times I have recorded my name here and I do so again. Trevor Ralph Sheffield of Auckland New Zealand. My name and full address is recorded in the phone book, which is available on the internet.

As from this point on, I may no longer be available here. Therefore for any who may wish to contact me. e-mail --- trevshef@xtra.co.nz

I call on those moderators who in mutual agreement, are intent on banning me and are about to censure my already published posts, to each state in person, when and where I have :-

(1) Used obscene language in any form.

(2) Been in any way dishonest.

(3) Defended my position in other than a forthright manner.

(4) Made a statement which has been proven incorrect, without immediately recording acceptance, together with a sincere apology.

(5) Posted anything other than a correction to a post, which in any shape or form has disadvantaged another member.

(6) Treated a members with limited technical ability, in any way other than by showing the utmost respect and empathy.

(7) Failed to spend maximum time, effort and consideration, towards every query I have dealt with, to the maximum of my ability.

(8) Boasted, or in any way claimed status above other members.



Joe. --- You maintained that my words as a Moderator and Administrator are "irrelevant".

Trevor --- My exact words were: “Amongst many irrelevant words, you have stated:” Surely this is a simple straight forward observation, concerning only the number of words involved and nothing more.

Joe --- You purport that my "sole purpose" in seeking to remove insulting posts from this past disagreement is for "protecting Harvey", which remark has no basis in anything I have ever said on the matter.”

Joe your previous remarks. --- in the case of both you and Harvey, there have been some heated statements from both of you in past threads.
--- because of personal animosity between you and Harvey, so I see no point in being coy about this.

Trevor --- You have fitted Harvey with his cap, which rather confirms your thoughts.”

Joe --- You maintain that I or my motives are "frankly dishonest", to which remark I take deep and personal exception.

Trevor --- I stated that the threat to destroy evidence is frankly dishonest. A frank and accurate statement, with no reference to you in person.

Joe ---- You accuse me of "meddling"

Trevor ---- “The results of your meddling will be observed with keen interest.” Meddle, verb, interfere in or busy oneself unduly with something that is not one's concern. A clear statement exactly describing an action. No more and no less.

Joe --- You maintain that as Moderator and Administrator I have the temerity to raise a matter against you

Trevor --- Temerity, noun, excessive confidence or boldness. I have every right to express an opinion in precise English.

Joe --- You make the presumptuous statement that I plan to "destroy evidence".

Trevor --- Nothing is presumed. It is a fact that you have stated you intend to delete and any text deleted will be evidence destroyed.

Joe --- You contend that my plan to clean up threads by removing offensive or insulting posts is a "transgression". Against what, exactly?

Trevor --- Your transgression is to destroy evidence. Removing any portion of a persons statement is a transgression against their right of redress. Particularly when this is carried out very much post publishing.


Joe --- While I respect that you are quite passionate in your pursuit of accurate statements, do not make the mistake that this respect is any sign of weakness on my part.

Just ONE more remark like those quoted above to me and you will be having a time out.

Trevor --- You are confusing a sense of weakness with a lack of ability to understand honest strait forward English.

Your threat stands without foundation, but as you are keen to have ONE more remark in order satisfy your ego and establish your power, I will not deny you.

You have confirmed in great detail that you are very much less than thick skinned and in fact are thin skinned to the point of pallor.

Trevor R. Sheffield.
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  #56  
Old 05-01-2008, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
Joe,


Your threat stands without foundation, but as you are keen to have ONE more remark in order satisfy your ego and establish your power, I will not deny you.

You have confirmed in great detail that you are very much less than thick skinned and in fact are thin skinned to the point of pallor.

Trevor R. Sheffield.
Is that a remark or a challenge?



Joe
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  #57  
Old 05-01-2008, 07:03 AM
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I just want to add, that when posts are "removed", they are rarely deleted. They are usually tucked away in a "special place" for further review. Most stay there.

The posts that I removed from this thread currently reside there, and can be reinstated at anytime, unedited.

This is why when we remove problem posts, we remove the whole thing, rather than edit out the bad. That would be destroying evidence.
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  #58  
Old 05-01-2008, 12:08 PM
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kwren kwren is offline
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Greetings back, Trevor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
Greetings Keith,

Just in case I am banned, I shake you by the hand as you stand very tall having earned the utmost respect. On that basis you deserve an STI gong.

Cheers, Trevor.
For many reasons, at times it is difficult for all of us to "mesh" together.
There are as many different personalities as there are people. There are times for all of us, for a variety of reasons, including personalities formed by our different cultures and upbring, for us to portray our feelings in a way that others can understand is not even possible. Sometimes when we "rub the fur" of others the wrong way we need to do some soul searching. I can honestly say that, although it hasn't always been that way, Trevor is my friend. I love people and when I read the posts on this form I try to form an attachment to the submitter. I try to analyze where they are coming from. I love you all!
Hang in there!
Keith

Last edited by kwren; 05-01-2008 at 12:15 PM. Reason: spelling (of course) LOL
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  #59  
Old 05-01-2008, 06:23 PM
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Trevor Trevor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svxistentialist View Post
Is that a remark or a challenge?



Joe
Your statement reading :-

"Just ONE more remark like those quoted above to me and you will be having a time out." most certainly constituted a direct challenge.

Read my remark as you will.

Very seriously and sincerely, Trevor.
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  #60  
Old 05-01-2008, 06:46 PM
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Trevor Trevor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSVX View Post
I just want to add, that when posts are "removed", they are rarely deleted. They are usually tucked away in a "special place" for further review. Most stay there.

The posts that I removed from this thread currently reside there, and can be reinstated at anytime, unedited.

This is why when we remove problem posts, we remove the whole thing, rather than edit out the bad. That would be destroying evidence.

The problem which exists as currently proposed, is that taking away (censoring) posts previously accepted without censure from current public view, constitutes the destruction of evidence. The text is no longer available in the event of future/subsequent argument and has been suppressed.

The immediate censorship of objectionable language falls into an entirely different category.
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