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  #61  
Old 10-29-2004, 10:12 AM
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drivemusicnow drivemusicnow is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix_3737
the thrid party candidate ralph nadar is going to affect kerry the most because he is extremely liberal wich is on the far "left wing" wile kerry is not as liberal but still on the "left wing" meaning that the votes that go to ralph nadar would have probably gone to kerry if nadar was not running, meaning less votes for kerry

as for me i stand with bush, being a student i appreciate the fact that since hes been in office government spending on education has increased 50%...as for kerry he believes that the tax cuts should only be for the middle class and poor people when as for bush wants the tax cuts for everyone both rich and poor wich is the way it is supposed to be since everyone is supposed to be treated equal the way our government was founded

umm i tried to keep out but i can't... here goes.
first of all to the "bush is honest" thing... thats total BS... maybe people THINK hes too stupid to lie... but both party's make equally impossible claims. Second everyone needs to decide which issues they are important.... For ME its education, security, healthcare, and economy.. and frankly bush doesn't even talk about education other than his "no child left behind act" which WAS a good idea.. until he tried to keep going with it, even though theres not enough funding. (now it just punishes schools that can't get everyone to be at a certian level (great plan.. lets take money AWAY from the schools that really need it)) Kerry however, wants to help defer the cost of higher education.

healthcare is also a subject that bush avoids.
for all you people speaking about money issues... look up how much it costs every day we're in Iraq... look at how bush took a progected 10 year 5 Trillion dollar surplus into a 5 trillion dollar deficit.

oh.. and in the original statement basically says they're voting bush Just because of a liberally slanted media... how STUPID is that? why would anyone just vote out of spite.

I"m not a "Liberal" i AM however looking at issues that are important to me.. and deciding for myself.. i hope that you all do the same.. heres a good website that allows you to look at issues rather than candidates

http://www.presidentmatch.com
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  #62  
Old 10-29-2004, 11:02 AM
BoondockSVX
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Originally posted by SVXer95
Easy there killer. No need to get your panties in a bunch.
Are you honestly trying to make a connection between the strength of a triangle and a third party? You have got to be kidding me.
Yes. Think about it, a three legged table is stable. A two legged one is NOT. Why? Each leg stabilizes a table to some extent, techincally if it was balanced right a 1 legged table could sit upright, but it'd have to be a very good leg (in relation to political parties, it would have to be a very successful party that solved lots of problems and made the majority happy).

With a two legged table, it will also stand, but is likely to tip over on either side. Why? The two legs only make the table stable in one LINEAR direction. You could push it in the direction of the two legs lining up, and it might still stand, but if you push it perpindicularly, it'll fall over. Same with the two party system. The two parties agree on SO many things, yet they polarize each other on other viewpoints. I don't think I know ANYBODY (except a few looney tunes I'm not really close to) who agrees 100% with either political party. One is pro life, the other is pro choice. One is pro gun, the other is 'ban anything that could possibly hurt somebody, nevermind that drunk driving kills far more people than guns do, we should ban any type of weapon because they're scary!" Ugh. One is for lots of government programs to help everybody out (more taxes!) the other side, which used to be about SMALL gov, is now seemingly for big gov as well, but instead of programs, we have wars, big military, etc etc.

So we get back to a THREE legged table. Easily the most stable with the minimum number of legs. How would this apply to politics? Right now the two parties are VERY VERY similar, and extremey opposites on a few things. With a three party system, one side couldn't just be 'against' the other side, since there are THREE parties. This would force ALL THREE parties to move closer to representing the MAJORITY, which lies in the middle of the political spectrum. RIght now you have each party pushing towards it's 'edges' and ignoring the people in the middle, and I'm sick of it.

ALL of our founding forefathers were AGAINST the two party system, do you think that you're more intelligent than they?

- Jim
  #63  
Old 10-29-2004, 11:05 AM
BoondockSVX
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ron Mummert

What a country!

Ron.
Indeed.

I like this country quite a bit, I just wish we'd have more viewpoints represented in the debates, and a more balanced coverage of all sides from the media (which is basically 'pro kerry', because Kerry is a bit behind in the polls, and the media WANTS a close race...why? Because they become important. If it's a close race, we pay more attention to the news, and the media gains more power. It's called self empowerment.

- Jim
  #64  
Old 10-29-2004, 11:09 AM
BoondockSVX
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Quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix_3737
the thrid party candidate ralph nadar is going to affect kerry the most because he is extremely liberal wich is on the far "left wing" wile kerry is not as liberal but still on the "left wing" meaning that the votes that go to ralph nadar would have probably gone to kerry if nadar was not running, meaning less votes for kerry
Untrue, and a complete assumption. I'm a member of the Nader supporters, and most of us despise BOTH political parties. The Republicans used to represent smaller less intrusive government, but now that's changed. The democrats used to defend the average joe and help him be more successful, but now that's changed. Ugh. Sure, a small percentage of Nader supporters vote for him because some of his viewpoints are extremely liberal, but hte majority of us are just SICK of the current 2 horse race, and we want actual CHANGE, not just a see saw between tweedle dum and tweedle dee.

- Jim

PS: Viva la revolution!
  #65  
Old 10-29-2004, 11:11 AM
BoondockSVX
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Quote:
Originally posted by drivemusicnow


http://www.presidentmatch.com
Link is dead.
  #66  
Old 10-29-2004, 11:29 AM
Shadow248 Shadow248 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by drivemusicnow
first of all to the "bush is honest" thing... thats total BS... maybe people THINK hes too stupid to lie... but both party's make equally impossible claims.
Kerry has proven countless times that just about everything he says is a lie. Just look at all the commercials and cartoons that use debate and rally footage showing him sayihng one thing and then saying the exact opposite the next day/week...etc.

Bush has proven that he is incapable of lying well. Yeah he lies, but he's not good at it. It's not hard to tell when he's saying things that he really means vs. when he's saying things that he knows he should say.

Quote:
Originally posted by drivemusicnow
Second everyone needs to decide which issues they are important.... For ME its education, security, healthcare, and economy.. and frankly bush doesn't even talk about education other than his "no child left behind act" which WAS a good idea..
I agree with that statement 100%. But there are a few important details you left out.

Security should be the number ONE priority right now. Why? Because nothing threatens us like poor security. Education, healthcare and economical concerns have been around for years. We're still alive and enjoy one of the highest standards of living in the world. National security is relatively new to us, it wasn't until 9/11 that we all realized that we should be worried as much as everyone else. The bottom line is dead people don't care about education, healthcare, and the economy. Dead people would vote for the man who they can trust to protect them (hindsight thing). So all that other fun stuff doesn't matter one bit if we are not safe.

Quote:
Originally posted by drivemusicnow
Kerry however, wants to help defer the cost of higher education.
Sure he does. Did you catch how he plans to do it? Of course not. Because then he'd have to either LIE (some more), or say "raise taxes", which is another thing he has promised not to do. Really...explain to me how this can be done, because it's beyond me.


Quote:
Originally posted by drivemusicnow
... look at how bush took a progected 10 year 5 Trillion dollar surplus into a 5 trillion dollar deficit.
Actually that's completely not true. We never had a surplus and never will. It will only get worse with Kerry in office because IF he actually enacts any of these great programs he's proposed, the only way to fund them is through tax hikes. Unless you think he's going to pay for them out of his own pocket?

Quote:
Originally posted by drivemusicnow
Oh.. and in the original statement basically says they're voting bush Just because of a liberally slanted media... how STUPID is that? why would anyone just vote out of spite.
That's a really funny comment. I CAN see voting one way just to give the big middle finger to some big establishment trying to use their influence to push their agenda on others.

What I CAN'T see is people voting for Kerry just because they hate Bush (BTW this makes up more than 60% of Kerry's support base). The "i'd vote for a parrot over bush" sentiment is ridiculous. So you don't like bush, great. But putting someone you barely even know, and know you can't trust into office, just to spite the man currently in office, whom you happen to disagree with, is just plain ignorant. Kerry will be 10x worse for this country than bush could ever be.

We've seen Bush, and we know the worst he can do. What we haven't seen is how low Kerry can go. Rest assured we will, if he's elected.

Last edited by Shadow248; 10-29-2004 at 11:33 AM.
  #67  
Old 10-29-2004, 11:43 AM
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Shadow, you are wise beyond your years. I have said to anyone who will listen that you can't trust kerry. He is married to one of the biggest outsourcer of jobs in America, but says that will stop under him. He has slashed intel and defense for years, but it will be different under him. He is for strong agressive defense, now he is not. He wants to tax the rich (but not himself) and somehow is going to increase domestic spending 500% without taxing the middle class. He voted to borrow capital from the social security surplus, but calls Bush an proponant of raiding the seniors. Bush survived, very well, 9/11 and did it with dignity and class. I'm confident gore wouldn't have. I have no doubt kerry would wilt under direct attack. Mrs. kerry wants us to be more like france {her words}. Enough said.
  #68  
Old 10-29-2004, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PA_SVX
Shadow, you are wise beyond your years. I have said to anyone who will listen that you can't trust kerry. He is married to one of the biggest outsourcer of jobs in America, but says that will stop under him. He has slashed intel and defense for years, but it will be different under him. He is for strong agressive defense, now he is not. He wants to tax the rich (but not himself) and somehow is going to increase domestic spending 500% without taxing the middle class. He voted to borrow capital from the social security surplus, but calls Bush an proponant of raiding the seniors. Bush survived, very well, 9/11 and did it with dignity and class. I'm confident gore wouldn't have. I have no doubt kerry would wilt under direct attack. Mrs. kerry wants us to be more like france {her words}. Enough said.
WAKE UP!!!!!!!!! THe worst Bush could do put us in the worst shape in MANy decades... and if you really think that bush only lies rarely.. You're oblivious.. he STILL claims that the Iraqi war had full justification... It doesn't.. plain and simple..
Yes Kerry has changed some opinions on things... have you? i know i've changed my opinion on abortion rather recently. and i still have no idea how you get class... or dignity out of Mr George W. Bush..
I don't like the two party system either.. i also don't like how much this country is NOT a democracy. but you have the ignorance of the masses to blame for most of this.

Kerry is for a very strong nation. however he also believes in not making rash judgements that cost our nation billions upon billions of dollars. think if bush had actually used some diplomacy before he went to war...

Shadow.. i agree security is important.. but considering bush has pretty much just over thrown two governments, one of which had NOTHING to do with our national security (don't even try the "but they COULD have arguement) .. umm doesn't seem like its that important to him either. Plus what happened to the WTC 10 years previously to 9/11?? national security has been around forever.. think cold war, cuban missile crisis.. pearl harbor.. come on.

Kerry will raise taxes.. but more so for the "rich" and supposed tax cuts for the middle class. You'd think bush would have more to say on this subject, as hes running up a HUGE bill over in Iraq

and YES we WERE making money faster than we spent it, such that in 10 years we would have had a surplus of 5 trillion dollars... look it up... and yes teh "anybody but bush" clan is pretty big.. notice the website below. but if theres really THAT many people who would rather take anyone in office over bush.. maybe he doesn't deserve respect that people try to give him

oh and the link worked for me... hmm and go to the "quiz" thing

another website.. MUCH more slanted towards teh Kerry side.. but still a lot of well researched points (nothing propaganda like) http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbuti...rhimanyway.com

Sorry about the length and "rantness" of this post.. didn't know this was such a conservative board.. and i'm at work..doing nothing...
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  #69  
Old 10-29-2004, 04:15 PM
BoondockSVX
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shadow248
So you don't like bush, great. But putting someone you barely even know, and know you can't trust into office, just to spite the man currently in office, whom you happen to disagree with, is just plain ignorant. Kerry will be 10x worse for this country than bush could ever be.
Exactly my sentiments.

Quote:
We've seen Bush, and we know the worst he can do. What we haven't seen is how low Kerry can go. Rest assured we will, if he's elected.
Eh, I don't know about that. Kerry COULD be better than Bush. Or he could be worse. Like you said, we have no idea who he actually is, and he lies about everything 24-7 and will make as many promises as possible to make everybody happy. This could be a good thing, or a bad thing, but it's DEFINITELY something I disagree with on a moral basis, whichi is why I really dislike Kerry.

And about the 'voting for Bush to spite the media', it has crossed my mind, and that's more likely than voting for Kerry. I hate the media. They're always ragging on Bush and always pushing Kerry... WHY?!??!

BECAUSE THEY WANT A CLOSE ELECTION!

Ugh.

- Jim
  #70  
Old 10-29-2004, 04:23 PM
BoondockSVX
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Quote:
Originally posted by drivemusicnow
You're oblivious.. he STILL claims that the Iraqi war had full justification... It doesn't.. plain and simple..
If you have that attitude then Kerry is also oblivious, as they were presented the SAME intel and came to the SAME conclusions. They share identical viewpoints. I suggest you watch some older footage of Kerry on talk shows, he's EXTREMELY pro-war, he even said "I don't CARE about WMDs, Saddam should be taken out!" Once he had a chance at the democratic primary, he quieted down and quit proclaiming that we must attack Iraq. Once he was the presidential candidate, he then claimed he thought the war was at the wrong place/wrong time.

He's full of ****, basically.

Quote:
Yes Kerry has changed some opinions on things... have you? i know i've changed my opinion on abortion rather recently.
Sure! But Mr. Kerry has never admitted to changing his mind. He keeps saying his record is 'consistent', and he'll NEVER say 'well, I changed my mind'. Ever. He has never said that, and never will. INstead he just LIES and tries to justify his own hypocrises, and the media supports this lie. It's quite apparent you've swallowed it.

Quote:
i also don't like how much this country is NOT a democracy. but you have the ignorance of the masses to blame for most of this.
Exactly why a true democracy would be bad. The ignorant masses. If we had always had a true democracy we'd still have slaves and women wouldn't be allowed to vote. Our current system (in theory) is NOT a true democracy in order to give some weight to the little guys, and protect people with less popular opinions.

Quote:
Kerry is for a very strong nation. however he also believes in not making rash judgements that cost our nation billions upon billions of dollars. think if bush had actually used some diplomacy before he went to war...
First off, Kerry agreed with Bush, so you're not improving the situation by voting for him. Secondly, Kerry DOES believe in rash decisions, he's going on and on about the missing weapons, before we found out they were missing before our troops even arrived. Lastly, about diplomacy, the UN was approached, but if you paid any attention you'd realize how effective the UN is. They gave saddam 'final warnings' for freakin years, and they let genocide happen around the world without intervening.

- Jim
  #71  
Old 10-29-2004, 07:50 PM
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drive music now...you talked about bushes not child left behind act and said how it has failed but what you failed to mention was that it has helped schools....wich is another issue i see with the war on iraq, you say how it was such a mistake but you fail to talk into consideration how many people in iraq appreciate us helping them out and how many people feel safer( for example kuwait) and if bush were to go back and change his mind about what he thinks about iraq people would be calling him a "flip flopper" too, do yourself a favor and dont be as "conservative" in your thinking and by saying this i mean dont just say i hate this, this, this and that and i want kerry i hate bush...

...so anyone wanna take bets on who will win florida
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Last edited by Phoenix_3737; 10-29-2004 at 07:54 PM.
  #72  
Old 10-29-2004, 10:55 PM
Shadow248 Shadow248 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by drivemusicnow
WAKE UP!!!!!!!!! THe worst Bush could do put us in the worst shape in MANy decades... and if you really think that bush only lies rarely..
Wow talk about picky. We've been attacked by terrorists, lost 3000 citizens in one day, removed a murderous dictator from power, survived the largest blackout in the history of the world, braved the worst hurricane season in the history of weather, put martha stewart in jail...oh and Britney got married. Yet we still enjoy one of the highest standards of living in the world, and our daily lives remain largely unchanged. How is this the worst shape by any stretch? How can you possibly believe we'd be at all better off with Al Gore in office?

Quote:
Originally posted by drivemusicnow
Yes Kerry has changed some opinions on things... have you? i know i've changed my opinion on abortion rather recently.
I'm sure you have...so have I. Are you hoping to be the leader of the most powerful nation in the world? I'm not.

Quote:
Originally posted by drivemusicnow
and i still have no idea how you get class... or dignity out of Mr George W. Bush..
Definetly not class. This is a big reason i'm voting for him.

Dignity? Consider the fact that he's just about the ballsiest man ever to lead this country, I don't think dignity is much of a problem for him.

I don't want a good looking, slick talking, rich man leading this country. I want a friendly, tough, neighborly, and easy to understand president.

Quote:
Originally posted by drivemusicnow
Kerry is for a very strong nation. however he also believes in not making rash judgements that cost our nation billions upon billions of dollars. think if bush had actually used some diplomacy before he went to war...
...half of us would be dead, the other half would be living in arizona driving electric cars and riding bikes.

Quote:
Originally posted by drivemusicnow
Shadow.. i agree security is important.. but considering bush has pretty much just over thrown two governments, one of which had NOTHING to do with our national security...think cold war, cuban missile crisis.. pearl harbor.. come on.
Again, if you think Saddam had nothing to do with Al-Queda, then i'd love to come live in your world where everything is exactly the way it seems. How can you call me oblivious, and then go on to say that you honestly believe that Saddam had no connection whatsoever to Al-Queda? It's beyond me.

The Pearl Harbor comment is a good one...I actually had that one come up before...i'll have to seek out that post instead of reposting it here and making my novel even longer.

Quote:
Originally posted by drivemusicnow
Kerry will raise taxes.. but more so for the "rich" and supposed tax cuts for the middle class.
Wow you really do sound just like him. Sure...he'll raise taxes for the very people who funded his campaign. Notice the rich NEVER get tax hikes. The reason should be obvious. People with money use their money to get more money. Campaign contributions so that they get all the breaks, etc. This is from both sides, not just Kerry. Any candidate who says he will tax the rich is full of it.

Quote:
Originally posted by drivemusicnow
and YES we WERE making money faster than we spent it, such that in 10 years we would have had a surplus of 5 trillion dollars... look it up...
You know, maybe I should come to your world where plans like this actually work. Do they? Cause according to my budget, if I stop eating out, drive the saturn instead of the T/A, and rent movies instead of going to the theater, for the next month, I will have a surplus. I planned that last month too. Somehow it didn't work. I can't figure out why...but I did find some great new restaurants and saw some good movies!

Yes there was a projected surplus. The point is projected. There is no way in hell that we would actually end up with that money. Are you crazy!? To think that for the next 6 years, everything could go EXACTLY as planned. Yeah, right. Welcome to earth.

Quote:
Originally posted by drivemusicnow
and yes teh "anybody but bush" clan is pretty big.. notice the website below. but if theres really THAT many people who would rather take anyone in office over bush.. maybe he doesn't deserve respect that people try to give him
Or maybe people just like to whine about stuff. We went to war, so alot of people don't like bush, the man who put us there. This is a historical inevitability. Show me a popular wartime president. There are none. The alternative? We could have not gone to war and everyone would REALLY hate bush because he "didn't have the balls" to get saddam out of power before he started supplying al-queda with weapons. Weapons they used to attack americans during the Super bowl last year (there was fairly conclusive evidence found to support this idea), resulting in the deaths of over 5000 people.

If you don't believe that could have happened, I highly recommend you read the book (or just watch the movie) - "The Sum of All Fears". That story shows quite vividly what happens when you don't act quick enough.

Not to mention gas prices would be double what they are now.

Quote:
Originally posted by drivemusicnow
Sorry about the length and "rantness" of this post.. didn't know this was such a conservative board.. and i'm at work..doing nothing...
No problem. By the way, didn't you see the SVX network presidential poll thread? Kerry won.

I'd say this board is anything but conservative.
  #73  
Old 10-29-2004, 11:49 PM
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How about we make Kerry and Bush race the pro rally circuit for one season, and whoever has more points gets to be prez? :-)
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  #74  
Old 10-30-2004, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mbtoloczko
How about we make Kerry and Bush race the pro rally circuit for one season, and whoever has more points gets to be prez? :-)
does that mean all these horrib campaign adds and yard signs can come down? Also, maybe then phone would stock ringing off the hook so i can eat my dinner...
ps im pp'ing you right now!
phil
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  #75  
Old 11-01-2004, 09:07 AM
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What most people don't realize is that the kerry's are worth more then the Bush's. Think Kerry will tax himself more? Don't think so. Old golddigger, eh, Mrs. Kerry, isn't going to go hire back all her "outsourced" employees when she gets to be first lady. Being a Dem must come with big blinders these days. Neither party is perfect, but I can't stand the Dems both sides of the issues crap anymore.
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