Transfer clutches?

[kwren]

I have a question or two...

Is it the transfer clutches if the car is binding and making a noise when turning?

Can the transfer clutches be repaired or would the transmission have to be replaced?

Are these "transfer clutches" a part of a rebuilt transmission?

Would new tires on the front and worn down tires on the rear cause that noise and binding?

Could replacing all the tires stop the binding or is it "broken"?

Would doing proper tires & changing the fluid be a solution?

Thanks,
Keith

[kwren]

?........................

[svxistentialist]

Originally Posted by kwren

I have a question or two...

Is it the transfer clutches if the car is binding and making a noise when turning?

Very possibly. Likely in fact.

Originally Posted by kwren

Can the transfer clutches be repaired or would the transmission have to be replaced?

The transfer clutches are in the housing at the back of the gearbox. If this is your only problem it can be repaired without taking out the whole transmission

Originally Posted by kwren

Are these "transfer clutches" a part of a rebuilt transmission?

It's normal to renew them as part of a transmission refurb

Originally Posted by kwren

Would new tires on the front and worn down tires on the rear cause that noise and binding?

Yes. This implies you have the rear axle rotating at a different rate to the front axle. This causes binding stress which is worse when turning, as the left and right rotations are also different in those circumstances.

Originally Posted by kwren

Could replacing all the tires stop the binding or is it "broken"?

You need all the tires the exact same diameter anyway Keith, so bite this bullet and eliminate this possible fault straight away. In your shoes I would replace the two worn rears with the exact same tires as you have on the front. [Unless you think the fronts are 1/3 to 1/2 worn, in which case replace all four]

Originally Posted by kwren

Would doing proper tires & changing the fluid be a solution?

It could be. It's a suck it and see situation. Get the four tires the same rolling diameter first Keith, that's the prime consideration.
If the oil is fresh or the box has recently been refurbed you probably don't need to go to the extent of changing the oil. If the oil smells and looks good it is your decision.

If your box is a very recent rebuild the following is very important and has a better than 50/50 chance of effecting a cure. Once you have all 4 wheels the same rolling diameter and your oil is good, go to an abandoned or empty mall car park late at night. Perform figures of eight with the car. This causes wear on the surfaces of the new transfer clutches, just enough wear to smooth the surface and stop the dragging that is causing your binding. If your gearbox is a rebuild and this has never been done it can prove to be a large part of your problem, sorted.
And before you ask I would prefer you to perform this action only after making all 4 wheels the same, not the way you have them now.

Originally Posted by kwren

Thanks,
Keith

Joe

[NiftySVX]

You likely have a problem with the duty sol. c. pre mid 1994 production transmissions have a couple updates to the teflon seal rings and the clutch plates themselves, as well as the extension housing. If you have a 92 or 93 you will need to replace the extension housing itself as it will have grooves in it. I would go ahead and take care of all of that stuff if you go in there to replace the duty c solenoid, but you can probably just put a new solenoid in it and it will work but with less apply than ideal.

[kwren]

The car is a 97...
The tires are certainly not my doing...
I have never even driven the car, not even started it and will naturally correct the tires before it is driven...

Thanks for the help!!

Keith

[svxistentialist]

That's sensible Keith.

Correct the tires problem and do the figure of eight business. You may find that once all the rolling diameters are the same and you scuff the surfaces of the transfer clutches the graunching stops. Could be merely lack of use.

You never said was the transmission rebuilt? That's a low miles car, is it not?

Joe

[WestCoastSVX]

Originally Posted by NiftySVX

You likely have a problem with the duty sol. c. pre mid 1994 production transmissions have a couple updates to the teflon seal rings and the clutch plates themselves, as well as the extension housing. If you have a 92 or 93 you will need to replace the extension housing itself as it will have grooves in it. I would go ahead and take care of all of that stuff if you go in there to replace the duty c solenoid, but you can probably just put a new solenoid in it and it will work but with less apply than ideal.

Were all the official Subaru rebuilt transmissions installed after 1994 given these updates?

[svxistentialist]

That's a very good question Troy and I don't have an answer.

From what I understand from information on DRW all transmissions after # 389607 came with modified transfer clutch plates. The oil sealing rings mentioned by Nifty that caused the grooving were also changed, but no mention if the damaged housings were replaced. Below is from the DRW site with thanks to Mr Donald Wang for the information:

3. To reduce rear axle binding, the transfer clutch plates were modified around Oct. of 1992 and were installed on all production transmissions numbered 389607 and later. The transfer clutch kit previously included only the driven plates. The latest kit includes both the fiber and steel plates.

4. The Oil Sealing Rings located on the transfer clutch output shaft were redesigned because the previous design rings were grooving the extension housing. No clear information as to when or if these rings were installed during production.

None of this will apply to Keith's '97 motor as it will have had all possible modifications as delivered.

Joe

[WestCoastSVX]

Thanks Joe.

Just curious as my car's had a couple of Subaru remans put in, the latest back in early 2001.

And now I'm about to have a new Solenoid C put in, so per Nifty's post, curious whether that is all needed to be done or if I'm remiss not having the other stuff done too while I'm (or the shop) is in there.

[ABSVX]

I must be missing something here. I understood AWD to mean that all four wheels can be powered but they can also rotate independently at different rotation speeds (vs. locked in 4x4 in which the diffs are locked). If (in simple terms!) AWD works as I have understood, why would different tire diameter make any difference?? How would the transmissions/differentials know the difference between different tire diameters (resulting in different rotations from one side of the car to the other), and going round a corner which requires one wheel to rotate more than the other?? I knew SVX's were great, but are they really that SMART -- WOW I'm impressed!!

Mike

'94 Barcelona LSi 127K Kms stock and lovely.

[ABSVX]

A related question:-
I just had sway bar links and a front right wheel bearing replaced, and when I backed up and turned, my front wheels "jerked/jumped" sideways a couple of times accompanied by a mild crack/bang each time they jumped (tires are bad and one was soft, but they are matched on the front, different on the rear but all 225/50/16's; 4 replacements are on order!) Drove away and tried to reproduce this is a parking lot and got the same symptom very mildly, then it seemed to go away. The transmission isn't 100% (hard 1/2 shift and maybe a slip in 3), but the local shop says it's not bad. It will go under the knife soon, but I want to make sure I do anything else that needs doing at the same time.

Can anyone suggest the reason for the strange sideways jump and sound??

Thanks! Mike

'94 Barcelona LSi AWD 127K Km's

[svxistentialist]

Originally Posted by ABSVX

I must be missing something here. I understood AWD to mean that all four wheels can be powered but they can also rotate independently at different rotation speeds (vs. locked in 4x4 in which the diffs are locked). If (in simple terms!) AWD works as I have understood, why would different tire diameter make any difference?? How would the transmissions/differentials know the difference between different tire diameters (resulting in different rotations from one side of the car to the other), and going round a corner which requires one wheel to rotate more than the other?? I knew SVX's were great, but are they really that SMART -- WOW I'm impressed!!

Mike

'94 Barcelona LSi 127K Kms stock and lovely.

"Smart" would be a relative term in this context Mike, but I'll make a couple of points on the questions you pose.

You are quite correct in that the front and rear differentials are there to cope with the different rotations the right and left wheels need to make when turning a corner, so this is normal enough. When this happens it puts a certain load or stress on the differentials, but if you think about it unless you are running your car on an oval circuit, the numbers of right turns equals or cancels the numbers of left turns over continuous mileage.

However if wheels on one side are a smaller size than the other, then this puts a continuous load on the differentials all the time, leading to possible damage [depending on the difference of rotation diameter] The same thing happens front to back if one axle has different diameter wheels than the other. The strain is constant in that scenario, so the default correct position for AWD cars is all four wheels having the exact same rolling diameter.

The 4EAT in the [AWD] SVX has two speed sensors measuring the rate of rotation of the front axle versus the rear axle and based on these readings controlling the required distribution of torque to the axles via the TCU, aka the transmission computer.

The control software is actually pretty clever, and Subarus can find traction when most other vehicles have given up. For that reason it's pretty important to have all 4 wheels exactly the same to establish the accurate control baseline. [and to avoid burning up the gearbox clutches when traveling in a straight line ]

Joe