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Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 11-15-2007, 10:26 PM
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I have also tried to chase down the USDM fog light circuits so that I could use them as DRL's. After reading Trevor's discussion of a possible solution I though i could do it. However I gave up trying to find the locations of the various relays and wiring. So I scrapped that plan and just started over with a circuit that is independent of the existing wiring. The result is that the fog lights can be switched on with the existing fog light switch when the ignition is in the "on" position, regardless of the headlight operation.

The new circuit adds a relay that is powered by the existing fog light switch. The 2 fog lights draw a total of 8 Amps so I used a standard 30 Amp auto relay to handle the current (Radio Shack 275-226 - $6.79). The relay is mounted above the transmission resistor, behind the battery, in a plastic box with the shift-kit vacuum switch.

The schematic below shows the mod with the new wiring in red.




I started by removing the battery so I wouldn't short anything out and to provide access to mount the new relay.

I then popped out the fog-light/cruise/security switch assembly and removed 2 of the existing wires on the fog light switch (white and yellow wires circled in the photo.) The third wire (red) provides power for the indicator light in the switch and is not removed.




In the new DRL circuit the center contact of the fog light switch provides switched power to the fog light relay. This requires running a wire from this contact (circled in the photo) to the relay behind the battery. You can see the 2 insulated wires that are disconnected from the switch.




I tapped into the ignition switch +12V power ("on" when the ignition switch is on) by connecting a short jumper wire (circled in this photo) from the cruise control switch +12V power to the fog light switch L/H terminal. Be sure you don't remove the existing wire from the center terminal of the cruise control switch when the jumper is added. This could require 3 hands!




This completes the wiring modification of the switch. I won't discuss getting the wire through the firewall and out to the relay. I never enjoy working under the dash.

The next step involves making the connection to the negative side of the existing circuit at the fog lights. I broke into the wiring at the fog light disconnect behind the driver's side headlight assembly. This photo shows the location of the disconnect to the left of the headlight bubble level. Above the circle you can see the wire I spliced into this existing wiring. This wire connects to the Red-Grn wire inside the ribbed sleeving and is routed over to the new relay, behind the battery. In the existing fog light circuit this wire goes from the fog lights to the existing fog light relay. Since this existing relay can not be switched (we disconnected the wires from the switch) there is no need to break this wire. Be sure to connect to the Red-Grn wire, NOT the Red-Yel wire which is also inside the sleeving. The Red-Yel wire is connected to +12 V for the fog lights and it is always hot.




The final connections to the relay are shown in the schematic diagram.

This picture shows the complete assembly before everything is buttoned up. I located the relay in a 5"x2.5"x2" plastic box (Radio Shack 270-1803) along with my transmission shift-kit vacuum switch. This photo shows the box and the wiring with the battery removed. To the right of the box is the cover with an attached metal tab that is used to mount the box under the upper Transmission resistor mounting bolt.




Here's the box mounted above the Transmission resistor.




Finally, the installation with the battery back in place.

__________________
- Jim

'02 Outback - Wife's car
'96 Legacy Wagon - Son's car
'95 Legacy Sedan - #5 Daughter's car
'93 Impreza Sedan - #4 Daughter's car
'92 Claret LS-L - My car ____________
TOTAL = 595,000 Subi miles
  #17  
Old 11-16-2007, 04:31 AM
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Jim,

Thanks for such a detailed write-up. A couple of the photos are still a little confusing as to wire colors, especially in the photo with everything in the relay box. many wires that I can't seem to trace

I am assuming the green wire from the switch assembly goes through the firewall and goes to pin 85 of the relay. After that, it gets confusing because of the similar color wires going to the shift kit.
I also assume red wires are for +12V at pin 87 and black wires at pins 30 and 86 for chassis ground. can you enlighten me a little further?


Trevor,

With your vast expertise, do you see any potential problems here? What about high beam operation?

I assume that since the original fog light relay is disconnected, the fog lights would not automatically shut off when I switch to high beams. If my headlights are on normally , along with the fog lights and I switch to high beams, the fog lights will still be on. That's a lot of light!!

My original idea was to

With the fog light switch in the OFF position, allow for normal headlight lo-beam/high beam/ fog light operation as originally designed (with fog lights shutting off when high beams were used; two different lighting needs) but allow me the option of

With the fog light switch in the ON position, having fog lights when the parking lights were on, using the column stalk. I could drive in bad weather with just the HID fog lights (column switch in parking light position).

Turning the column switch to the headlight position would allow me headlight and fog lights, or headlights alone, and normal high beam operation (Shutting off the fog lights when switched on)
.
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.
Subaru Ambassador

1996 Polo Green LSi #216..138,100 miles...SOLD

JFICX8659TH100216.....Date of Manufacture: November 16, 1995.....
Fuji Heavy Industries..Ōta North Plant....Ōta City,. Gunma Prefecture, Japan

In-Service Date: January 2, 1997



"The Pristine Green Polo Machine”
First Polo Green on the Network
First Clear front turn signals, JDM Alcyone hood emblem, rear panel, and BOXER engine cover on the Network (US) (2000)
First 5000K HID factory fog lights (2007)
First SVX JDM BBS wheels on a USDM SVX (2013)

HID lighting (5000K) for headlight and H3 fog lights, PIAA SuperExtreme 120W high beams, rebuilt EG33 longblock, Cometic head gaskets, Phase II flexplate, AMR aluminum radiator with custom silicone hoses, 160A high-output alternator in aluminum-ceramic coated case, new design alternator wiring upgrade v.4, rare factory headlight protectors, refinished JDM BBS mesh aluminum wheels and custom, polished billet aluminum new hex center caps, LED grille mod, R1 Concepts high-carbon cryo slotted rotors, Akebono ceramic pads, Goodridge S/S braided brake lines, Smallcar Stage 1 shift kit, ThermalTech aluminum/ceramic-coated valve covers, Energy Suspension urethane front & rear swaybar bushings, Bontrager22 rear swaybar with QS Components Chromoly Teflon/Kevlar endlinks, "$15.00/5 minute" suspension mod. Hella Supertone horns, Custom stainless steel exhaust system with 2" headpipes, Magnaflow cats, AeroTurbine AR25 resonator /AWD "Bullet" muffler.


R.I.P. 2010 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5 CVT...338,000 miles. Totaled by a 1,300 lb. COW March 4, 2016

2014 Hyundai Avante Limited ...178,000 miles. Actually quieter and smoother than the Outback

2007 Mazda Miata MX-5 PRHT...102,000 miles.
Plenty of parts, service and windshields.


4th Registered Network member —2/21/2001

My NEW locker..I...My Email..I..Wikipedia/SVX .

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Last edited by svxcess; 11-16-2007 at 04:35 AM.
  #18  
Old 11-16-2007, 05:49 AM
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hmm very weird !! my fog lights turn off and on with my dash switch wether or not any other lights are on ??
  #19  
Old 11-16-2007, 06:24 AM
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Trevor, I'm gonna CN your 100% correct text real quick here. Our current circuits:

+12 - HEADLIGHT FUSE - HEADLIGHT RELAY - FOG RELAY TOGGLE - FOG SWITCH - HI/LO BEAM SWITCH - GROUND

+12 - FOG BULB - FOG RELAY - GROUND

You're basically looking at an "AND" - the fog switch and the hi/lo beam switch both close the circuit together. Kid stuff.

So, how to throw an "OR" into the works?

...PARKING LIGHTS - FOG RELAY TOGGLE - FOG SWITCH - HI/LO BEAM SWITCH - GROUND

+12 - FOG BULB - FOG RELAY - GROUND

Not much to change there! Is there any reason that changing the (low current!) source shouldn't work?
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  #20  
Old 11-16-2007, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svxual View Post
hmm very weird !! my fog lights turn off and on with my dash switch whether or not any other lights are on ??
On the USDM cars, That is how it should be. using the lo-beam headlights, you should be able to turn fog lights on and off using the fog light switch.

Even with the fog light switch ON, the fog lights will not come on if either the column switch is in the 1st position (parking lights only) or the high beams are used.
.
__________________
.
Subaru Ambassador

1996 Polo Green LSi #216..138,100 miles...SOLD

JFICX8659TH100216.....Date of Manufacture: November 16, 1995.....
Fuji Heavy Industries..Ōta North Plant....Ōta City,. Gunma Prefecture, Japan

In-Service Date: January 2, 1997



"The Pristine Green Polo Machine”
First Polo Green on the Network
First Clear front turn signals, JDM Alcyone hood emblem, rear panel, and BOXER engine cover on the Network (US) (2000)
First 5000K HID factory fog lights (2007)
First SVX JDM BBS wheels on a USDM SVX (2013)

HID lighting (5000K) for headlight and H3 fog lights, PIAA SuperExtreme 120W high beams, rebuilt EG33 longblock, Cometic head gaskets, Phase II flexplate, AMR aluminum radiator with custom silicone hoses, 160A high-output alternator in aluminum-ceramic coated case, new design alternator wiring upgrade v.4, rare factory headlight protectors, refinished JDM BBS mesh aluminum wheels and custom, polished billet aluminum new hex center caps, LED grille mod, R1 Concepts high-carbon cryo slotted rotors, Akebono ceramic pads, Goodridge S/S braided brake lines, Smallcar Stage 1 shift kit, ThermalTech aluminum/ceramic-coated valve covers, Energy Suspension urethane front & rear swaybar bushings, Bontrager22 rear swaybar with QS Components Chromoly Teflon/Kevlar endlinks, "$15.00/5 minute" suspension mod. Hella Supertone horns, Custom stainless steel exhaust system with 2" headpipes, Magnaflow cats, AeroTurbine AR25 resonator /AWD "Bullet" muffler.


R.I.P. 2010 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5 CVT...338,000 miles. Totaled by a 1,300 lb. COW March 4, 2016

2014 Hyundai Avante Limited ...178,000 miles. Actually quieter and smoother than the Outback

2007 Mazda Miata MX-5 PRHT...102,000 miles.
Plenty of parts, service and windshields.


4th Registered Network member —2/21/2001

My NEW locker..I...My Email..I..Wikipedia/SVX .

.
  #21  
Old 11-16-2007, 07:27 AM
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Another option

(Any coincidental logic and similarity between what is seen in the wiring diagrams and what is actually found under the dash is purely unintentional)

Like Jim, after trying to follow Trevor's detailed explanation getting nowhere, I sent this post to Trevor.

"The HID fog lights are installed and they are amazingly brighter with better coverage all around. I have still not solved the wiring problem.

In a form of backwards-engineering, I wondered if I could find a way to just manually shut OFF the headlights through a separate switch.

I could turn the headlights ON to the Lo position, using the column stalk normally. I could then turn on my fog lights with the fog light button on the dash (having both illuminated as designed)

If I wired a switch to cut power to the headlights, I could then turn them off, still leaving the fog lights on. I think I could still use the high beams for extra illumination if needed. In this way, my fog lights would act as substitute lo beams.

What do you think? Would this be any easier, or are there problems I do not foresee?"


Here was Trevor's reply:

John,

I have again been over the horrible wiring and find that the headlight relays are fed from the ignition switch, via a red wire terminating at the main fuse board. This red wire it would appears connects to the board via single pole connector, F14. Have a look at the wiring diagram and troubleshooting, power supply routing, on page 14.

The idea will be to interrupt/switch this wire/circuit. Only relay current is involved with no voltage drop problems, so that a length of light twin-flex and a small switch will do the job.

If you can locate and separate the plug and find some mating connectors, you will not have to cut about any existing wiring. You can also confirm that all is OK before proceeding by unplugging and plugging the connector so as to simulate a switch,.

This looks like the simplest approach possible and I wish the best with it. Let me know how you get on.

Trevor.

.
__________________
.
Subaru Ambassador

1996 Polo Green LSi #216..138,100 miles...SOLD

JFICX8659TH100216.....Date of Manufacture: November 16, 1995.....
Fuji Heavy Industries..Ōta North Plant....Ōta City,. Gunma Prefecture, Japan

In-Service Date: January 2, 1997



"The Pristine Green Polo Machine”
First Polo Green on the Network
First Clear front turn signals, JDM Alcyone hood emblem, rear panel, and BOXER engine cover on the Network (US) (2000)
First 5000K HID factory fog lights (2007)
First SVX JDM BBS wheels on a USDM SVX (2013)

HID lighting (5000K) for headlight and H3 fog lights, PIAA SuperExtreme 120W high beams, rebuilt EG33 longblock, Cometic head gaskets, Phase II flexplate, AMR aluminum radiator with custom silicone hoses, 160A high-output alternator in aluminum-ceramic coated case, new design alternator wiring upgrade v.4, rare factory headlight protectors, refinished JDM BBS mesh aluminum wheels and custom, polished billet aluminum new hex center caps, LED grille mod, R1 Concepts high-carbon cryo slotted rotors, Akebono ceramic pads, Goodridge S/S braided brake lines, Smallcar Stage 1 shift kit, ThermalTech aluminum/ceramic-coated valve covers, Energy Suspension urethane front & rear swaybar bushings, Bontrager22 rear swaybar with QS Components Chromoly Teflon/Kevlar endlinks, "$15.00/5 minute" suspension mod. Hella Supertone horns, Custom stainless steel exhaust system with 2" headpipes, Magnaflow cats, AeroTurbine AR25 resonator /AWD "Bullet" muffler.


R.I.P. 2010 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5 CVT...338,000 miles. Totaled by a 1,300 lb. COW March 4, 2016

2014 Hyundai Avante Limited ...178,000 miles. Actually quieter and smoother than the Outback

2007 Mazda Miata MX-5 PRHT...102,000 miles.
Plenty of parts, service and windshields.


4th Registered Network member —2/21/2001

My NEW locker..I...My Email..I..Wikipedia/SVX .

.

Last edited by svxcess; 11-16-2007 at 07:31 AM.
  #22  
Old 11-16-2007, 07:41 AM
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/me waves arms around in the air

Oo! Oo! Did you see my post? It's exactly the solution you're looking for...
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  #23  
Old 11-16-2007, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetItSnow View Post
/me waves arms around in the air

Oo! Oo! Did you see my post? It's exactly the solution you're looking for...
I have always been a very VISUAL guy (remember my hood and trunk strut diagrams I sent you?)

Not being familiar with where all of these electronic parts are located, you will have to walk me through this WIRE-BY-WIRE Diagrams are one thing, but if you tell me which wire goes where, what color it is and where I might find it, that may help a lot.





I didn't get the name "Dr.Dremel, Prince of Polish" by reading the instruction manual. I learned from actually seeing someone use it and went from there
,
__________________
.
Subaru Ambassador

1996 Polo Green LSi #216..138,100 miles...SOLD

JFICX8659TH100216.....Date of Manufacture: November 16, 1995.....
Fuji Heavy Industries..Ōta North Plant....Ōta City,. Gunma Prefecture, Japan

In-Service Date: January 2, 1997



"The Pristine Green Polo Machine”
First Polo Green on the Network
First Clear front turn signals, JDM Alcyone hood emblem, rear panel, and BOXER engine cover on the Network (US) (2000)
First 5000K HID factory fog lights (2007)
First SVX JDM BBS wheels on a USDM SVX (2013)

HID lighting (5000K) for headlight and H3 fog lights, PIAA SuperExtreme 120W high beams, rebuilt EG33 longblock, Cometic head gaskets, Phase II flexplate, AMR aluminum radiator with custom silicone hoses, 160A high-output alternator in aluminum-ceramic coated case, new design alternator wiring upgrade v.4, rare factory headlight protectors, refinished JDM BBS mesh aluminum wheels and custom, polished billet aluminum new hex center caps, LED grille mod, R1 Concepts high-carbon cryo slotted rotors, Akebono ceramic pads, Goodridge S/S braided brake lines, Smallcar Stage 1 shift kit, ThermalTech aluminum/ceramic-coated valve covers, Energy Suspension urethane front & rear swaybar bushings, Bontrager22 rear swaybar with QS Components Chromoly Teflon/Kevlar endlinks, "$15.00/5 minute" suspension mod. Hella Supertone horns, Custom stainless steel exhaust system with 2" headpipes, Magnaflow cats, AeroTurbine AR25 resonator /AWD "Bullet" muffler.


R.I.P. 2010 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5 CVT...338,000 miles. Totaled by a 1,300 lb. COW March 4, 2016

2014 Hyundai Avante Limited ...178,000 miles. Actually quieter and smoother than the Outback

2007 Mazda Miata MX-5 PRHT...102,000 miles.
Plenty of parts, service and windshields.


4th Registered Network member —2/21/2001

My NEW locker..I...My Email..I..Wikipedia/SVX .

.

Last edited by svxcess; 11-16-2007 at 08:42 AM.
  #24  
Old 11-16-2007, 09:41 AM
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Fair enough! Unless I'm missing something, this can be done with a single wire added, and just one cut.
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  #25  
Old 11-16-2007, 02:24 PM
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SVXCESS,

Your interpretation of my wiring is pretty close. My problem is that I'm severely colorblind. So colors just confuse me. I'm sorry, I just grab a wire, and it if is a heavy enough gage, then I use it. I'm a "black & white picture" guy.

The only +12V going into the box is the wire from the firewall, and that 12V is switched on by the fog light switch. The red wires in the box jumper pins 86 & 30 and that goes out of the box to the ground point in front of the battery. The Black wire with the red trace comes from pin 87 and goes out of the box and is spliced into the fog light wiring, at the existing red-green wire. When ever that red-green wire is pulled to ground the fog lights will turn on, even it the ignition switch is off.

With this mod, if the ignition is on and the fog light switch is on, then the fog lights turn on regardless if the headlights, parking lights, or high-beams are on or not. If you turn on the high-beams and the fog lights then all 6 lights on the front of the car will light up.

I didn't use the existing fog light relay because it was not in a convenient place for me to break into its wiring and it looked like it would take several changes to make it work. I'm getting too old to stand on my head under the dash and try to crimp terminals or splices, or worse yet - solder.

Another thing that probably adds to your confusion with the wiring in the box is the additional wires I have added between the vacuum switch and a panel jack mounted on the end of the box. I use that to experiment with various settings of the switch point when I am adjusting it. I monitor the vacuum switch with a small meter I can mount on the dash so I see when it switches on and off while I'm driving. But that's another story.
__________________
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'02 Outback - Wife's car
'96 Legacy Wagon - Son's car
'95 Legacy Sedan - #5 Daughter's car
'93 Impreza Sedan - #4 Daughter's car
'92 Claret LS-L - My car ____________
TOTAL = 595,000 Subi miles
  #26  
Old 11-16-2007, 05:09 PM
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um may be stupid reply!but why dont you just follow a jdm wiring diagram?
my jdm fogs are able to be used in any format .. ignition on , park lights on , headlights on low or full. or couldnt you just rewire the fogs to the switch fullstop??
  #27  
Old 11-16-2007, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svxual View Post
um may be stupid reply!but why dont you just follow a jdm wiring diagram?
my jdm fogs are able to be used in any format .. ignition on , park lights on , headlights on low or full. or couldnt you just rewire the fogs to the switch fullstop??
I guess I don't understand what "fullstop" means.

However my mod did pretty much completely rewire the fogs and they are able to be used in any format.
__________________
- Jim

'02 Outback - Wife's car
'96 Legacy Wagon - Son's car
'95 Legacy Sedan - #5 Daughter's car
'93 Impreza Sedan - #4 Daughter's car
'92 Claret LS-L - My car ____________
TOTAL = 595,000 Subi miles
  #28  
Old 11-16-2007, 05:48 PM
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yep exactly what i was meaning by fullstop jim easy rewire end of subject
  #29  
Old 11-16-2007, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svxual View Post
um may be stupid reply!but why dont you just follow a jdm wiring diagram?
my jdm fogs are able to be used in any format .. ignition on , park lights on , headlights on low or full. or couldnt you just rewire the fogs to the switch fullstop??
Be sure that thus is not simple in any shape or form. Having spent much time with Jim, exchanging PM's I am unwilling to post a further screed giving exact details.
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As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit!
  #30  
Old 11-16-2007, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
Be sure that thus is not simple in any shape or form. Having spent much time with Jim, exchanging PM's I am unwilling to post a further screed giving exact details.
I am not sure what this is all about.
.
__________________
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Subaru Ambassador

1996 Polo Green LSi #216..138,100 miles...SOLD

JFICX8659TH100216.....Date of Manufacture: November 16, 1995.....
Fuji Heavy Industries..Ōta North Plant....Ōta City,. Gunma Prefecture, Japan

In-Service Date: January 2, 1997



"The Pristine Green Polo Machine”
First Polo Green on the Network
First Clear front turn signals, JDM Alcyone hood emblem, rear panel, and BOXER engine cover on the Network (US) (2000)
First 5000K HID factory fog lights (2007)
First SVX JDM BBS wheels on a USDM SVX (2013)

HID lighting (5000K) for headlight and H3 fog lights, PIAA SuperExtreme 120W high beams, rebuilt EG33 longblock, Cometic head gaskets, Phase II flexplate, AMR aluminum radiator with custom silicone hoses, 160A high-output alternator in aluminum-ceramic coated case, new design alternator wiring upgrade v.4, rare factory headlight protectors, refinished JDM BBS mesh aluminum wheels and custom, polished billet aluminum new hex center caps, LED grille mod, R1 Concepts high-carbon cryo slotted rotors, Akebono ceramic pads, Goodridge S/S braided brake lines, Smallcar Stage 1 shift kit, ThermalTech aluminum/ceramic-coated valve covers, Energy Suspension urethane front & rear swaybar bushings, Bontrager22 rear swaybar with QS Components Chromoly Teflon/Kevlar endlinks, "$15.00/5 minute" suspension mod. Hella Supertone horns, Custom stainless steel exhaust system with 2" headpipes, Magnaflow cats, AeroTurbine AR25 resonator /AWD "Bullet" muffler.


R.I.P. 2010 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5 CVT...338,000 miles. Totaled by a 1,300 lb. COW March 4, 2016

2014 Hyundai Avante Limited ...178,000 miles. Actually quieter and smoother than the Outback

2007 Mazda Miata MX-5 PRHT...102,000 miles.
Plenty of parts, service and windshields.


4th Registered Network member —2/21/2001

My NEW locker..I...My Email..I..Wikipedia/SVX .

.

Last edited by svxcess; 11-16-2007 at 10:42 PM.
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