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  #1  
Old 10-03-2007, 04:46 PM
earthkin earthkin is offline
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Thumbs down A/C Idle Pulley Disintegrated

My idle pulley assembly for the A/C has fallen to pieces (bearing assembly slipped out), shredding the belt and pushing the pulley into the timing belt cover. It wore into the cover, and wedged into the cover about 1/2 of the thickness of the pulley. My question is: normally how big is the hole behind that A/C pulley? I looked at an illustration at SubaruParts.com and see that there is supposed to be a hole there (see my profile picture for which hole I'm talking about), but if it is just supposed to be a small hole I probably should replace the cover. The hole in my cover is now as big as the pulley.

Searching the threads, I've found where this happened to a few other people, possibly because the bolt wasn't tight (though I think mine was when I took it off) or the pulley was on backwards somehow. Or maybe it just wore out. Anyway, I think I'll be replacing the whole pulley assembly. Anyone have one they want to sell?
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RIP: '92 SVX LS-L AWD, black over claret
Nearly gone: '92 Legacy SW, 353k miles
'00 Impreza Outback Sport, 'silverthorn met titanium,' 134k miles
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  #2  
Old 10-04-2007, 06:12 AM
dcarrb dcarrb is offline
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I don't recall any hole in the timing belt cover behind the AC idler pulley. It probably wouldn't hurt anything to postpone replacement of the cover 'til the next timing belt service.

dcb
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  #3  
Old 10-04-2007, 08:36 AM
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SVXdc SVXdc is offline
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There's not supposed to be a hole behind the A/C idler pulley. The place you're indicating on the drawing is a partial convex dome over the water pump pulley.



A hole in that cover may not be so bad for a short while, but you should make sure there is no debris from the A/C pulley and belt rattling around the timing belt.

You can remove all of the front timing belt covers fairly easily (you'll just need to remove the outer crankshaft pulley and the tensioner under the P/S pump). It's not nearly as bad as removing the crankshaft gears [correctioncamshaft gears] .

You may find that you only need to clean and vacuum out the timing belt area. Then you might get by gluing on a cover plate over the hole.

On the other hand, if your timing belt has been chewed up, you may want to go ahead and replace it.
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Last edited by SVXdc; 10-04-2007 at 09:33 AM.
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  #4  
Old 10-04-2007, 08:46 AM
earthkin earthkin is offline
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Cool Ok, no hole should be there...

Okay, now that I look at the SubaruParts.com illustration again, I realize that the "hole" it shows is in a different position, shown located on the horizontal lines on the cover (mine is up higher). So my latest thought is fabricate a temporary plug that I can glue in place with plastic-epoxy until the next timing belt change. I'm a little nervous about leaving the hole there because I'd like to get my engine steam cleaned (old oil leaks have left some serious grease).
Thanks, Ross
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RIP: '92 SVX LS-L AWD, black over claret
Nearly gone: '92 Legacy SW, 353k miles
'00 Impreza Outback Sport, 'silverthorn met titanium,' 134k miles
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  #5  
Old 10-04-2007, 08:54 AM
earthkin earthkin is offline
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Debris?

The timing belt looks clean. The pulley wheel hadn't quite gone back far enough to damage anything (I have a real nice view hole now to look in! - so I'm inclined to just crank the engine several times and look over the belt). Wouldn't any debris just sit on the bottom-inside of the timing belt cover? The timing belt was fairly new - if an error was made with the gear it was probably the mech that replaced the belt that did it, though I couldn't swear to it since I think I had the A/C belt replaced later.

I'm a pretty basic-type mech (you probably guessed that by the fact that I hired someone to replace the belt), so I'd like to avoid removing or replacing the center cover myself.
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RIP: '92 SVX LS-L AWD, black over claret
Nearly gone: '92 Legacy SW, 353k miles
'00 Impreza Outback Sport, 'silverthorn met titanium,' 134k miles
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  #6  
Old 10-04-2007, 09:53 AM
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SVXdc SVXdc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earthkin View Post
Wouldn't any debris just sit on the bottom-inside of the timing belt cover?
Until you hit a bump, then it gets knocked up into the belt and gears whirring by at several thousand RPMs. If any little metal bits are rattling around in there, it could cause $$$$ worth of damage.

If it were my car, I'd pull the covers to make sure the timing belt chamber is clean and look over the entire belt.

It's not that hard. With the A/C belt and tensioner off, you're already 1/3 of the way there.

Until recently, I hadn't done much more than change my oil myself, but a couple of weeks ago replaced the water pump (which required removing and reinstalling the timing belt).

See this post (#9) for helpful links. BTW, the "Unorthodox Racing Pulley Installation" guide includes a picture of a new front timing belt cover.

You'll just need a helper to lock the flywheel while you remove the crankshaft pulley, then a big torque wrench to bolt it back on. Find a friend who's done similar car work and offer some beer and/or pizza.
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  #7  
Old 10-04-2007, 11:02 AM
earthkin earthkin is offline
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Exclamation Guess I'll have to do the work...

Okay, David C, I guess you are right about checking for debris. There were some wicked metal curves off the race for the bearing -- probably enough to slice the timing belt at high RPMs if any got in with the belt. Thanks again. I'll just have to tough it out. While I'm at it, maybe replace the cover, too.

I'll check out the link.
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RIP: '92 SVX LS-L AWD, black over claret
Nearly gone: '92 Legacy SW, 353k miles
'00 Impreza Outback Sport, 'silverthorn met titanium,' 134k miles
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  #8  
Old 10-04-2007, 11:26 AM
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kwren kwren is offline
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probably the idler bearing just wore out

[QUOTE=earthkin;497765]The timing belt looks clean. The pulley wheel hadn't quite gone back far enough to damage anything (I have a real nice view hole now to look in! - so I'm inclined to just crank the engine several times and look over the belt). Wouldn't any debris just sit on the bottom-inside of the timing belt cover? The timing belt was fairly new - if an error was made with the gear it was probably the mech that replaced the belt that did it, though I couldn't swear to it since I think I had the A/C belt replaced later.

there would be no reason to disrupt the idler and bracket that controls the tension on the ac belt to replace either the ac belt or even the timing belt. However we never know if our "mechanics" would know that. It is simply removed as a unit if necessary or just loosen a couple of bolts and retighten to replace the ac belt. The idler bearing does wear out but should make an audible sound as a warning before it comes apart.
Much better to replace the cover and get it sealed properly.
Good luck
Keith.

Last edited by kwren; 10-04-2007 at 11:32 AM.
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  #9  
Old 10-04-2007, 12:35 PM
earthkin earthkin is offline
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Bearing wore out...

Sounds like you are right about the bearing just wearing out. My daughter had complained about the noise, which I thought was the A/C compressor. I had her take it into a shop near where she goes to college, and they said the couldn't hear the noise! Maybe too much time on the firing range, because it was pretty obvious to me. Then about a week later, she drove it home and the A/C stopped working (that was when the bearing disintegrated, I'm sure). Darn mech! It would have been pretty easy to fix if they'd bothered to investigate.

I told her to never take it back there. Fortunately, all they actually did was an oil change, and it hasn't leaked out yet (hopefully they didn't strip the plug bolt!).
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RIP: '92 SVX LS-L AWD, black over claret
Nearly gone: '92 Legacy SW, 353k miles
'00 Impreza Outback Sport, 'silverthorn met titanium,' 134k miles
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  #10  
Old 10-04-2007, 12:45 PM
earthkin earthkin is offline
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Thumbs down How much money & work should I put into this...?

I'm thinking while I'm at it, I should at least replace the crankshaft pulley & the power steering pulley, so I don't just have to do the whole thing over again in the next year. But what about the other idler pulleys that are involved with the timing belt? I'd rather not tackle that, as it is supposed to be difficult (plus there's the extra expense, on an engine that really isn't all the great anymore after about 150,000 miles now).

On the other hand, my daughter keeps saying how much she loves the car. On the other other hand, I'm sick of sinking money into it & told her I'm getting rid of it next time it has a major breakdown (last one was tranny overhaul about 1 1/2 years ago, still under warranty for about another 6 months). I'm probably stuck paying for a car for another 4-5 years, since she plans on doing grad school and is doing great in school now, so I'm willing to invest in her (not sure about the SVX, though). Though if I were to buy another car for her, it would probably be a more expensive one (e.g. $8000), which would buy a lot of repairs to the SVX... I may be talking myself into this.
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RIP: '92 SVX LS-L AWD, black over claret
Nearly gone: '92 Legacy SW, 353k miles
'00 Impreza Outback Sport, 'silverthorn met titanium,' 134k miles
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  #11  
Old 10-04-2007, 10:19 PM
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SVXdc SVXdc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earthkin View Post
I'm thinking while I'm at it, I should at least replace the crankshaft pulley & the power steering pulley, so I don't just have to do the whole thing over again in the next year. But what about the other idler pulleys that are involved with the timing belt?
I suspect your crankshaft and P/S pulleys (i.e., for the outer belts) are OK. But if you're unsure, you could remove them and let an expert (or two) look them over.

Once you get the outer cover off, if the timing belt looks OK and none of its gears or idlers are damaged or pitted, you probably don't need to worry about any of those. The idlers on mine had some discoloration (from the belt, I think), but that cleaned off fairly easily.

Incidentally, SubaruGenuineParts.com has different drawings (and slightly lower prices on parts).
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  #12  
Old 10-04-2007, 11:50 PM
earthkin earthkin is offline
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Thumbs up Thanks

Thanks everyone for all the help! Wish me luck on the actual work, once I get the parts. With all the good instructions & pics I found through the forum, I think it won't be too bad. Hopefully the weather will still be good since my garage is clogged with non-cars.

I've ordered a 1 piece crankshaft pulley (OEM size) from motorsportwarehouse.com ($140 + shipping), and new idle pulleys for the P/S & A/C belts. Also a new center timing belt cover. Thanks David C, you were right about www.subarugenuineparts.com -- they are more reasonable for prices & shipping. So I went with them for the OEM parts. The single piece aluminum crankshaft pulley was a tough decision after reading all the debate in the forum (there were some good points about the OEM part, too), but I decided there is probably less chance of the single piece pulley disintegrating, so that was the final determiner for me.

Hopefully this will be the last repair for a while. We'll see what happens when I clean off the Crank Angle Sensor, since I also have a engine code 11 for that. I read a post where someone fixed this by cleaning the Sensor, and with my dirty engine, that's a likely cause. (Steam cleaning to come later...) Otherwise I think I'll be looking for a used sensor, judging by the price of a new one. Who knows, maybe replacing these pulleys will help, or I'll find the problem when I'm looking at the timing belt & gears.
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RIP: '92 SVX LS-L AWD, black over claret
Nearly gone: '92 Legacy SW, 353k miles
'00 Impreza Outback Sport, 'silverthorn met titanium,' 134k miles
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