Freeze-12, alternative R-12 refrigerant

[dcarrb]

To my knowledge, the only thing my mechanic changed on mine when he converted it to 134a was the filter/dryer. That was over four years ago, I've had no trouble whatsoever, it's never been recharged, and the AC works beautifully on sweltering days. If someday soon a seal or even the compressor should fail, well, geez, it's a 16-year old car, so I could hardly have cause to complain.

dcb

[kwren]

Originally Posted by ShiuludeSVX

Thanks, it's getting harder all the time to get R-12.
I have a source, but he is exhausting what he has also.

It also has the same temperature characteristics as f-12 with pressure and temperature
134 A also requires a different type of compressor oil to prevent foaming.

[Guyver280z]

The retrofit kit comes with a "special" additive for the oil and bushings that somehow makes your system less vulnerable to fail due the R134.

Being a different material than R12, it can be more corrosive to certain materials like old rubbers, and it deffinetly builds a little more pressure than R12, but for the money it took me to have Cold AC now instead of waiting for parts, and an expensive new compressor, and a new condenser etc. its worth using that cheap retro fit kit, ad wait till the heat goes away to fix the AC properly.... if it goes bad

[Nick_C]

I used Freeze12 in my XT6 and it worked great!

[Chris]

Well, after a TERRIBLE day with my upgrade/retro fit, here is my update.

I still have 2 cans of Freeze-12 and no easy way to introduce it into the system. The can threads are different than the can tapper I have (assuming its probably an R-12 thread). My search today to find a can tap for R-12 led me endless and frustrating conversations about how its illegal to sell it to me without a EPA/Clean air act certification number (bah!)... I might have an old one from the 80s somewhere in storage, but my patience ran out long before it had a chance of being discovered.

So.... I went for the popular R-134a alternative with a hesitant sigh. I used 2 cans of an advertised new mixture called Arctic Freeze. Has some sort of claim of development from NASA to work better and faster then the standard and its marketed as R-134a+.

My system had NOTHING in it so I changed the two "O" ring seals on the compressor fittings and started a deep evacuation of the system. I used a pneumatic venturi style vacuum pump and brought the system down to 22 inches of mercury. I closed off the valves and went for parts. After several frustrating trips for tools and refrigerant (since I could not get a can tapper for R-12) I continued on the project almost 2 hours later. The good news here is that when I returned, there was still 22 in/hg of vacuum on the system, thusly giving me confidence that there was no serious leaks to attend to.

I had trouble in my adventures finding a can tapper the was decent for R-134a and settled on a cheap $13 option that had a gauge, can tapper valve, and a quick connect to the low side of a R-134a valve. Note here: BAD MISTAKE! I really wanted one that I could use with my manifold gauges and service hose, but the parts stores I visited wants $35 for it. So I tapped the can with my intentions of a clean first can injection. NOPE. Remember that word cheap from before. The plastic valve outer body broke after the can was tapped and I ended up loosing my refrigerant and my temper. After a brief call to my counselor Earl (ensteele), I was able to regain my calm and go back out in 97 degree heat for my 4th parts run of the day.

Autozone is your friend..... so I hear. This nightmare started at noon and now its almost 9pm. I don't drink beer, but I am contemplating the reality of beer=success. I hit Autozone in time and get directed to a small display of refrigerant and supplies. I notice the very same cheap $13 system that broke and put me here for alternatives and rationalize the realality that the same set up here is the same price..... uhh. unlucky number 13. I just about throw in the towel when I spot a professional commercial quality, brass can tapper that is made to work with the service side of a manifold gauge set. YEA! And its only $5.99. (note to self, 13 is indeed an unlucky number, and there actually is a god).

9:30 pm, starting to get dark, still butt hot outside and I am FINALLY starting to introduce refrigerant into the system. I put in a small can of PAG 46 oil, followed slowly by two cans of Arctic Freeze R-134a+. I watch my pressures on both the low and high side. Thirty minutes later the system seems to have stabilized with my low side at 30psi and the high side at 190psi.

Moment of truth. I walk around to step into the inside of the car to see if I have accomplished something good or if I am going to kick the crap out of something. When I started the car and turned the A/C on, I put an atomic clock with temperature on the center console since I don't have a stem thermometer handy (note I will get one tomorrow and post my results). With the outside air at this time of night at 85 degrees, I got into the car and closed the door..... Burrrrrr. Temperature on the clock says 66 degrees. YEA!

The real test comes tomorrow. Forecast for tomorrow is 101 degrees. Earthworm swears that when he came here to visit, his shoes were melting to the asphalt. I do not remember precisely but I think it was like 105 that day. So, I will hit up Wal-Mart or Harbor Freight for a cheap stem thermometer and post how well my actual project works. I would post pictures, but they would just be too violent!

If after a few weeks all feels well, I will offer my assistance to anyone in the area whom has an R-12 SVX and does not want to be raped $70 a pound for R-12. I can also top off any one else's SVX that uses R-134a as well.

(Next person that tells me I cannot work on my R-12 system gets popped in the jaw!) Besides, its not like I evacuated or dumped any R-12 into the atmosphere nor introduced more into my system. Freaking government donkeys!

[cdigerlando]

Great discussion. I need to consider this too. Keep up the Posting!

[94SubieSVX]

I have the "retro fit kit" that Guyver was talking about and it works wonders. Before my air was blowing cool air then after i recharged it the air was FREEZING

[pavanbabut]

I am thinking of charging my 93 Alfa with industrial grade es12a.... but before that I need to check the system for serious leaks, since as for now.. there is zero pressure in the system .

-Pavan

[Kelvin]

Keep us updated. I'd like to fix my SVX and my honda's AC systems.

[Chris]

OK, its day one after the retrofit of the 92 SXV's R-12 system using R-134a+ marketed under the name Arctic Freeze. We did a bunch of driving around today in Sunday heated city traffic. The ambient air temperature outside was a sweat inducing 98 degrees. With the A/C turned to is coldest temp and high fan speed the vent air temperature was a nice cold 45 degrees. At stop lights it would raise to 49. I used a fast responding digital stem gauge.

So, at the end of test day one, I am happy and satisfied with the results. I will post updates if/as things change. I will also post a How-To on this subject as I did it. I will verify correctness with Chris Debban regarding the procedure since he was out of town when I started this endeavor.

[SoCal LS-L]

Ok, so from what I understand here.... as long as all the R-12 refridgerant remaining is evacuated from the system... along with the oil..... then 134a can be safely charged into the system and work ok?? I have seen a couple posts about the reciever/dryer being changed out.... who else has converted to 134a in an R-12 system... and how is it doing?

[pavanbabut]

Originally Posted by SoCal LS-L

Ok, so from what I understand here.... as long as all the R-12 refridgerant remaining is evacuated from the system... along with the oil..... then 134a can be safely charged into the system and work ok?? I have seen a couple posts about the reciever/dryer being changed out.... who else has converted to 134a in an R-12 system... and how is it doing?

I havent done this on SVX, but on Alfa I changed receiver drier, expansion valve, cleaned the system with mineral oil and changed all seals to green seals. If you are serious about the coolness, you might want to consider chaging the compressor too, but for good performance it should be fine.

other than that nothin else i can think of.

[stuartracing]

I retro fitted my 92 with good results.....Here in FL. you need to be coool....It`s even hot in the winter.....

[Tuck]

I've done four or five of these conversions (R-12 to R-134a). Proceedure is to flush system without compressor and receiver/dryer. There is a pressurized can of flush agent you can get from Autozone to remove the old oil. Follow by purging the flush out with air. Install new receiver/dryer (gets rid of some of the old oil and you can't flush it out) and o-rings, mount compressor and fill with PAG oil (2.5 oz). NOTE: the general source of leaks is the compressor seal. It's the shaft seal between the compressor and the clutch. The compressor runs almost constantly and the seal will wear out. Don't fix this and the work done is pretty useless. Evacuate the air out of the system to remove all the water vapor. Don't do this and the water vapor will freeze at the expansion valve and plug the system. No freon flow = no cooling.

There is a pressure switch in the system so you will need to start pressurizing the system for the compressor to start. Pressurize thru the low pressure side. That's the line from the firewall to the compressor. Charge with 24oz of referigerant (two cans) and enjoy.

If you live down south, you are going to need window tint. The film in the windshield helps but the side and back glass just will bake you without it. The A/C system has to not only cool you but to reduce the temperature of the vehicle interior for you to feel cool as well.

[stuartracing]

Originally Posted by Tuck

I've done four or five of these conversions (R-12 to R-134a). Proceedure is to flush system without compressor and receiver/dryer. There is a pressurized can of flush agent you can get from Autozone to remove the old oil. Follow by purging the flush out with air. Install new receiver/dryer (gets rid of some of the old oil and you can't flush it out) and o-rings, mount compressor and fill with PAG oil (2.5 oz). NOTE: the general source of leaks is the compressor seal. It's the shaft seal between the compressor and the clutch. The compressor runs almost constantly and the seal will wear out. Don't fix this and the work done is pretty useless. Evacuate the air out of the system to remove all the water vapor. Don't do this and the water vapor will freeze at the expansion valve and plug the system. No freon flow = no cooling.

There is a pressure switch in the system so you will need to start pressurizing the system for the compressor to start. Pressurize thru the low pressure side. That's the line from the firewall to the compressor. Charge with 24oz of referigerant (two cans) and enjoy.

If you live down south, you are going to need window tint. The film in the windshield helps but the side and back glass just will bake you without it. The A/C system has to not only cool you but to reduce the temperature of the vehicle interior for you to feel cool as well.

Perfect advice.....AND the window tint....Got ALL of my glass tinted,windsheild has the 6" stip at the top.....Looks good....