Subaru Cars reliable?

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Mr. Pockets
And don't presume to question my patriotism just because I say Japanese cars are more reliable, and that I have evidence to support it. This is the typical 'last resort' argument of the domestic car fan. Being patriotic doesn't mean that I will buy an American product at any cost. Bear with me for a minute, okay, man? If the American product doesn't suit my needs, or is inferior, why should I buy it? If an American product is inferior, what am I teaching the company that produces it if I buy it just because it's American? I'm teaching them that they can get away with producing crap and that they don't need to make competitive products.

So, hear this: I will buy an American car when I see proof that they are just as reliable as Japanese cars, when I can verify that proof and when they fit my needs.

werd. cars are too expensive to buy one based on a patriotic feeling. to blindly go buy a crappy American car is just saying "keep producing junk, because i'll buy whatever you put out!" GM is finally getting the idea, because it was losing out. the new Malibu is reported by critics to have the quality control and fit and finish equal to its rival Camrys and Accords.

unfortunately, GM still has its head up its arse when it come to styling - the Malibu is one ugly little sedan. the legendary GTO looks like a 'dime-a-dozen' Gran Prix. the Corvette looks good, but i wish the designers wouldn't have quit working when they got to the rear-end. like the previous model, it was smooth flowing lines until you get to the rear, which looks like it was lopped off with a giant axe.

how hard is it GM? make a quality car that looks good, too. are they hiring? i could turn that frickin' company around in a year, and i'm just an average car-loving idiot.

[Mr. Pockets]

Originally posted by Landshark
GM is finally getting the idea, because it was losing out. the new Malibu is reported by critics to have the quality control and fit and finish equal to its rival Camrys and Accords.

And, if this proves to be true, I'll consider one when I have to buy a new car. I don't love Japanese cars because they're Japanese. I love them because, as I said, they fit my needs and they tend to be more reliable. If the new Malibu fits those needs and proves to be on par with Toyota's or Honda's quality, then I'll consider one.

Actually, I don't care for the new Malibu sedan's styling, but for me it works on the wagon. I think that's an attractive car.

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Mr. Pockets


And, if this proves to be true, I'll consider one when I have to buy a new car. I don't love Japanese cars because they're Japanese. I love them because, as I said, they fit my needs and they tend to be more reliable. If the new Malibu fits those needs and proves to be on par with Toyota's or Honda's quality, then I'll consider one.

Actually, I don't care for the new Malibu sedan's styling, but for me it works on the wagon. I think that's an attractive car.

i have no 'Japanese-only' bias, either. i just got fed up having my cars broken all the time. i'd buy a domestic in a second if it:
a) is reliable, and built to last
b) has good performance for the money
c) has nice styling
d) has AWD!

[GreenMarine]

Originally posted by Landshark
unfortunately, GM still has its head up its arse when it come to styling - the Malibu is one ugly little sedan. the legendary GTO looks like a 'dime-a-dozen' Gran Prix.

Hehehe, GM has no idea on what they are doing when it comes to styling!!! GM cars have to be some of the ugliest things out there... What's with them still using pushrods??? That V-6 3800 has to be a design that is over 15 years old!!! And on the new GTO.... ---> They couldn't even design it from the ground up, they had to go to the Australian market to get the body and transmission (Holden Manaro)... Holden's in australia are of about the same quality as Chevy's are here, but I like the Holden styling better... And the Commodor HSV is an Awesome car!!!! Pretty much like a 4 door Corvette!!! Hehehe

[GreenMarine]

Originally posted by Mr. Pockets
And I love my country. Don't make the mistake of questioning that again.

You should see how much I like to piss people off here on base... I have a big Australian flag hung up in my room and all sorts of things that I brought back from Australia in there too... Some really Gung-Ho Seargent asked me why I didn't act patriotic sometimes... I told himi because "Australia is my Country, not America"... He flew off the wall!!! It was funny... I love it when people tell me that just because I am a Marine I am suppose to want to die for America or something... I don't want to die for any country!!! It is just a bunch of land, but if I do die for a country it'll be Australia... That should make them happy, because it means that as long as I am a Marine in the US, I will not die for anything!!!! Hehehee .... Sorry I got started on my little rant on countries...

[GreenMarine]

Originally posted by Landshark


i have no 'Japanese-only' bias, either. i just got fed up having my cars broken all the time. i'd buy a domestic in a second if it:
a) is reliable, and built to last
b) has good performance for the money
c) has nice styling
d) has AWD!

You should check out this wagon that Holden is building... It is about the size of a Ford Tarus Wagon but it is AWD and has a 5.7 V-8 in it!!! The thing is crazy!!! Chevy might buy the design if it does well in Australia next year... That might be something for ya to look at

[Landshark]

Originally posted by GreenMarineSVX


You should check out this wagon that Holden is building... It is about the size of a Ford Tarus Wagon but it is AWD and has a 5.7 V-8 in it!!! The thing is crazy!!! Chevy might buy the design if it does well in Australia next year... That might be something for ya to look at

sorry, i'm not a 'station wagon kind-of-guy.' not that there's anything wrong with them - the extra hauling capacity is handy i'm sure, but i just don't like the way they look.

agreed the Holden is much better looking than the GTO, IMHO. who wants to spend all that money for something that looks like a cheap-ass Gran Prix that drive by every 5 seconds.

[Shadow248]

Originally posted by GreenMarineSVX
Hehehe, GM has no idea on what they are doing when it comes to styling!!! GM cars have to be some of the ugliest things out there...

and i bet you would go on to say that the WRX, Baja, and Forester are good looking cars????

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA you're a funny guy.

Originally posted by Landshark
unfortunately, GM still has its head up its arse when it come to styling - the Malibu is one ugly little sedan. the legendary GTO looks like a 'dime-a-dozen' Gran Prix.

First I need to remind you that the company your are referring to is the Number 1 automaker in the world...the company who's cars you say are the greatest doesn't even make the top ten. So your opinion of GM's styling means about as much to me as a fish's opinion of flying.

I would like to say I agree with you that the malibu is quite ugly. That and the Aztek are two damn ugly vehicles. But ugly is no longer a bad thing...the Aztek proved that long already. So I think (along with just about every person to review the new Malibu) that we may be looking at next year's "Car of the Year".

The point is GM has been doing what they are doing with the malibu in many other cars for the past 5 years. The new GPs, Monte's, Impala's...all have excellent fit and finish and are 5-star rated in reliability. But you conveniently overlook that little fact then expect me to overlook the subarus that perform less than perfect. No way man.

About the new GTO...i've heard lots of complaints about the styling...i'm not worried and niether is GM. They knew what they were doing when they styled it. They built that car specifically to sell better than it's predecessor - and it will. Compare this to the new Mustang...a design that makes most mustang lovers proud...I guarantee you that in three years the GTO will be outselling the Mustang by a significant margin. We saw what happened to the thunderbird...but Ford still didn't learn their lesson.

Originally posted by GreenMarineSVX
What's with them still using pushrods???

I love it when people bring up this argument. Love it. Ever hear the saying "if it isn't broken, don't fix it?". Well GM seems to be the only carmaker that understands how true that is. Why would they redesign the 3800 when it is still, in it's third generation, one of the top three engines in the world? (motor trend's "best engines" 2003). They stopped using the 3.8 for awhile in favor of the 3.4 DOHC (honda designed) motor that's in my GTP. That is arguably one of the biggest mistakes they ever made. The engine just plain sucks. I've managed to have very good luck with mine, but I know of plenty of instances of blown head gaskets, entire intakes replaced, never-ending EGR problems. What a mess. It costs $800 in some cases just to replace the timing belts! Thus, in 1997 they switched to the 3800 series II and never looked back. Best thing they ever did. That engine wins a new award every year. Not to mention the 5.7L LS-1...it's a design that's nearly 30 years old and to this day no one can touch it. 405hp from a smallblock V-8 in stock form...and it still gets 20+mpg. Yeah what's with those pushrods?

Originally posted by Landshark
his girlfriend owns a beat-to-hell moneypit SVX (that a reasonable person would have unloaded a long time ago.)

See here's that hypocracy again. When it's an import, it's an isolated case. But if Mandi's problematic car was, say, a Cavalier...then it would just be "typical American junk". Not good fellas. Not good.

Originally posted by ensteele
If you look at the top of the page, it gives you the name of the site.

For those of you just joining the argument, I will restate my mission. I have no intent of causing anyone on this site to EVEN THINK about tranding in their SVX for a chevy. For god's sake i wouldn't even do it. I simply intend to make as many people as possible on this site realize that American cars are not bad just because they are American. Too many people are just lumping all American cars together as bad. There are lots of great American cars, and you will see more and more in the coming years.

Originally posted by ensteele
So, are you just wanting to argue for the fun of it or what.

Yes.

[Mr. Pockets]

Originally posted by Shadow248
I simply intend to make as many people as possible on this site realize that American cars are not bad just because they are American.

You and I can at least see eye to eye on this one, but I'm disappointed that you didn't answer my last post.

I would never say that just because a car is American, it's a piece. But I will say that the trend has been the following: Japanese cars are typically higher quality, more reliable cars than their American counterparts.

So, you and I may have nothing to argue about if we can agree on both of those points. If you still contend that Japanese cars have not typically proven to be more reliable than American cars, then I await your supporting facts.

[Mr. Pockets]

Originally posted by Shadow248
The new GPs, Monte's, Impala's...all have excellent fit and finish and are 5-star rated in reliability.

See, that suggests that you have facts on hand. But you're not actually providing us with those facts. Who rated these cars '5 stars' for reliability?

Also, some of these cars haven't been around for very long. For me, personally, the real test of a car's reliability isn't how faithful it is over the first five years. Those are a given, as far as I'm concerned. Call me spoiled by my 200k-mile imports.

[Landshark]

GM=#1, McDonald's=#1 , both crap - i explained this before. the masses are idiots. go have some McNuggets and wash them down with some #1 Budweiser - the best beer, of course.

WRX and Forester ARE nice looking. the Baja is quirky-looking, but not Malibu-ugly. (thanks for bringing up the Monte - i forgot about that train wreck!)

i think you forget i've OWNED quite a few American cars (mostly GM), and i'll call junk because i've paid my dues in them. most of my family and in-laws own American cars, they're junk, they know it, but they keep buying them because they are 'familiar' with the brand. that is what GM is counting on, and you buy right into it.

enjoy your McNuggets, because you're #1!

[Landshark]

here's some freakin' data. Consumer Reports (that Shadow loves so much) used car best bets. notice the high import content.

CR Good Bets
These are the best of both worlds: models that have performed well in Consumer Reports tests over the years and have had better-than-average overall reliability. Models are listed alphabetically.

Acura Integra
Acura RL
Acura TL
Ford Escort
Geo/Chevrolet Prizm <----- actually a Toyota
Honda Accord
Honda Civic
Honda CR-V
Honda Odyssey
Infiniti G20
Infiniti I30
Isuzu Oasis
Lexus ES300
Lexus GS300/GS400, GS430
Lexus LS400, LS430
Lexus RX300
Mazda Millenia
Mazda MX-5 Miata
Mazda Protegé
Mercury Tracer
Nissan Altima
Nissan Maxima
Nissan Pathfinder
Saab 9-5
Subaru Forester
Subaru Impreza
Subaru Legacy/Outback
Toyota 4Runner
Toyota Avalon
Toyota Camry
Toyota Camry Solara
Toyota Celica
Toyota Corolla
Toyota Echo
Toyota RAV4
Toyota Sienna
Toyota Tacoma
Toyota Tundra (where's GM? there are pillars of reliability!)

now used cars to avoid like the plague. notice the high domestic content.

Reliability risks
These cars have shown several years of much-worse-than-average overall reliability. AWD stands for all-wheel drive; 4WD, for four-wheel drive. Listed alphabetically.


Cadillac Catera
Cadillac Seville
Chevrolet Astro
Chevrolet Blazer
Chrysler New Yorker, LHS
Chrysler Town & Country (AWD)
Dodge Caravan (4-cyl.)
Dodge Dakota (4WD)
Dodge Durango
Dodge Grand Caravan (AWD)
Dodge Neon <----------------------oH n0s!!!!!
Ford Focus
Ford Windstar
GMC Jimmy
GMC Safari
Jeep Grand Cherokee
Lincoln LS
Mercedes-Benz M-Class
Oldsmobile Alero
Oldsmobile Bravada
Oldsmobile Cutlass
Plymouth Grand Voyager
Plymouth Neon
Plymouth/Chrysler Voyager (4-cyl.)
Pontiac Grand Am
Volkswagen Jetta
Volkswagen New Beetle
Volvo S80

(oh, GM is on THIS list alot. )

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Landshark



yes, they are priced out of reach. show me a comparable domestic that has AWD and the performance of a WRX for less than $24,000.


that's what i thought.

i'm still waiting for your reply.

[Shadow248]

Originally posted by Landshark
yes, they are priced out of reach. show me a comparable domestic that has AWD and the performance of a WRX for less than $24,000.

There is none. The buying public has not shown that they consider AWD a necessity yet. Therefore US automakers could really care less.

But let's flip that around....

show me a comparable import that has RWD and the performance of a Trans Am for less than $28,000.

or

show me a comparable import that has 4WD and the performance of a Silverado for any price.

you can't. There aren't any.

See? Works both ways.

[GreenMarine]

and i bet you would go on to say that the WRX, Baja, and Forester are good looking cars????

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA you're a funny guy.

Nope, I sure wasn't gonna say that the WRX was good looking... I don't really like the way that the WRX's look.. However I LOVE (with a passion) the way that the 1999 V6 STi's looked!!! Yes, I have seen one... My dad had one... The Baja needs some work, but I like the Forester... And the SVX is just Beautiful!!! But I never said that I bought a Subaru because I liked the way it looked, did I???? Nope... I bought it because of the reliability, and it hasn't let me down in 2 years and about 20k miles...

PS ---> I can be a funny guy...