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Old 07-31-2005, 06:00 PM
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Ryushin Ryushin is offline
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Lightbulb Oil Leaks, Air Conditioning (mini how-to), My First Post (Long)

Well, this is the my first post to this site. Let me say there is some very good information in the forums. This thread is for me to get my thoughts down regarding the work it took to repair my SVX and to help other people who might be in the same situation.

First, a bit about me. I like classic muscle cars. Very simple. Easy to work on. I've had 4 classic mustangs and plan to have more. I don't have much want for newer cars because I like being able to work on my cars.

Now about the car. It's a '92 SVX that use to be Ryan MacDondald's. He made some howto's that based on the traffic I see to his web page (I host the site), still get's a lot of use. I also helped Ryan repair his SVX the first time he bought it from the dealer for $600. One good thing I said about the car when he bought it, was the engine was facing the correct way.

The car has a bit of history with it, but that is for another time. Right now I want to address the problems that had me thinking about junking it.

First, the car was leaking oil. A lot (but not as much as some peoples cars I hear about) of it. It was making a mess of my garage floor. I took it to a couple of small repair places to look at it, and they said it was leaking just about everywhere and I would have to pull the engine to fix all the leaks.

Second, the A/C no longer functioned. When Ryan had the car the dealership said the compressor would have to be replaced and quoted him $1500 to replace the compressor and to re-charge the system.

So these things were annoying me. But I was still driving it and sweating my butt off. The power was also off in the car and I thought it was related to the exhaust noise I had been hearing but I hadn't been able to find out what was causing that, and wasn't willing to spend money on the car if I wasn't going to keep it. Then the final staw came that broke the camels back

I loaned the car to Ryan to use for a couple of days. He hit a bump pretty hard and the car started running like total crap. I was lucky to get it to repair shop and drop it off for the night. I thought it was only firing on five cylinders so they would have to hook it up to a computer. I asked them to take a look at it and they said they couldn't because Subaru didn't release the code reader to look at the car and I would have to take it to a dealership (I was not happy).

Every dealership I've ever been to has always tried to take advantage of me and I've had to fight for my rights multiple times. I've found two smaller repair shops that fully trust with my cars, but the SVX is fairly unique in few ways and it makes working with the shops I trust more difficult if it's going to be extensive.

I took it to the dealership and asked to read the code on the car and let me know what it says. The next day they tell me timing is off and that is due to the oil leaks causing the timing belt to be subjected to oil and therefore stretched. They told me I needed a new belt, belt tension plunger, and front main seal, cam seal, oil pump seal, etc. All in all they wanted $1800 in repairs. I asked them how can they tell this just from pulling the code, and they said they had to take the front apart to find out. Long story short, I didn't authorize them to do any of that work, just to pull the code, and they reasssembled the car and I just paid $90 (to pull the code). I also asked them what it would take to stop the oil leaks, and they said they would also need to replace the gaskets on the valve/rocker covers and there is a trick replacing the rocker covers without pulling the engine.

Well, one good thing that came out of it, was that I know knew what was wrong with the car. A trip to http://www.subaruparts.com and I had the parts on the way. Ordered the water pump as well. Might was well replace it since I'm going to be in there.

Ryan and I replaced his timing belt last time, so this was no big deal (engine faces the right way). It's still a two person deal for loosening the main bolt. Gotta jam a big flat head screw driver in the exposed fly wheel under the car.

I did the research on this site about how to replace the rocker cover gaskets. Drivers side is the most difficult from what I read. Tried the slide back and forth up and down routine with the instructions I got from this site. After about 20 minutes, said screw it, went with putting the jack under the engine and gave it about 1/4 to 1/2 lift, and the driver side rocker cover came right out. Put the rocker covers back in with new gaskets and permatex on both sides (those SOB's are never going to leak again!). Got a mechanics pick to pull out the cam seals. BTW, someone mentioned using a 30 mm to put the main seal and cam seals back in. Let me said for the record, it's very hard to find a 30 mm socket. Denver, Colorado isn't exactly small, and calling around everywhere didn't turn up a metric socket that large. So if you are planning on doing this work yourself, buy the socket online/whatever before you do the work. I also put in new bosche platinum spark plugs while I was at it.

Assembled everything back together and low and behold, no leaks after two weeks! This took me several days to do. I was patient and just worked at until it was done.

Now for the Air Conditioning. During this process I learned a LOT about how the A/C system works and how to repair it. These are my steps that I've learned from here and else where. I wonder if I should put this post into another thread. Hell, might as well go for the huge post that fills up the whole screen.

I needed a new compressor. Pep Boy auto parts store had one for $290. Not bad. Found a seller on eBay (I guess this is all they do) who sells rebuilt compressors for $220 that includes a new dryer and PAG 150 oil! Just search eBay for svx compressor and you should be able to find the seller. Order the compressor and dryer from them. It comes with a 1 year warranty IF you have a professional install it (found out about that IF part when I got the compressor and read the fine print on the warranty).

Autozone auto parts store has a A/C DVD for sale that outlines how an A/C system works and how to repair it. It's 60 minutes long, pretty decent in quality of information and it's only $10.00. I watched it three times and took notes the last time. The repair he did in the video was on a system that had a orifice tube and an acumalator. The SVX has a dryer and an expansion valve but he outlines these things too in the video. I highly suggest that you buy it to take the mystery out of the system. The only thing I didn't like about the video, was that he replaced a lot of parts when he didn't need to. Seeing who produced it, that does not surprise me.

After watching the video (bought it before the compressor), I decided to get the tools to do a professional install. This way, if I have a leak, I'm only looking at refridgerant instead of paying someone else to do it, over and over again. On eBay I found someone selling a kit that included a manifold gauge set, venturi vacuum pump, A/C O-rings, condensor fin straightener, a thermometer, and a little bag to carry it all in, all for only $99.00. Normally the manifold gauge by itself costs about $99. The only thing it didn't come with, was a can tap which I bought from Autozone for $6.00.

Now we come to choosing the refridgerant. My car is a '92 and therefore was filled with R12. You cannot buy R12 locally anymore, and eBay is the only source I've found for R12. I found out that a lot of R12 sold on ebay is either reclaimed or made abroad (in mexico) and the quality is poor (You can always get lucky I guess), plus you will need a A/C license to purchase it (which is easy to get). So, that leaves R134a which is 35% less effeciant than R12 and requires higher head pressures and makes your compressor work that much harder. The more research I did into R134a the more I thought it was crap and I was not going to put it into my car. It's toxic, corosive (when exposed to water moisture), flammable under pressure, and just plain sucks. So I was looking at finding R12 again. Did so more research into alternative refridgerants and found about HydroCarbons (HC's). Duracool, HC-12a, etc. Did a lot more research into them and decided to go that route. It's all pretty much the same, a mixture of highly refined propane, iso butane, and some other stuff such as lubricants. It'a also marginally better than R12 and much better than R134a. Bought four 6 oz cans of Duracool online for $8.99 each (cheaper than R134a to boot). There is a knock off website called www.duracoolusa.com which is not what you want. The real website is www.duracool.com.

All the stuff came at around the same time. Replaced the compressor (had to remove the alternator and the bracket attached to the engine to do it) and the dryer. I poured 1/4 oz of A/C dye into the suction part of the compressor. I didn't need to put in any oil as the seller on ebay already put PAG 150 in it.

I converted the fittings to R134a. You can buy the adaptors from Napa, Autozone, etc. The adaptors that I got had their own shrader valves. I removed the shrader valves from the R12 fittings and screwed the new ones on. I did seal the threads with plumbers tape but I don't know if that was necessary. If you get a manifold gauge set, make sure the hoses quick connects fit the R134a adaptors. I had one adaptor from Napa that didn't fit. But it might just have been my manifold gauge set.

I have a 4.6+ CFM at 90psi compressor that I used to run the venturi vacuum pump. I pulled a deep vacuum of 25+ inches for 30 minutes. If you purchase the venturi vacuum pump, make sure you have a compressor powerful enough to run it. As long as it's a decent size portable or standalone it should be okay. Turn off the vacuum pump. Make note of the gauges readings. Come back in 30-60 minutes and make sure the gauges haven't moved at all. If you have less pressure, odds are you have a leak. Make sure you put the dye in so you can locate the leak after the fact. You will need to charge the system in order to find the leak.

Charging the system isn't that hard. But you need to go SLOWLY. Using Duracool or another HC-12 equilvilant, it will be very easy to put in too much charge. Now about the amounts needed for the charge. Duracool uses 35% of the R12 weight or 40% of the R134a weight. The '92 SVX took 21-25 oz of R12, so that means I would need only 7.35 to 8.75 oz of Duracool (or another HC-12). Since the cans come in 6 oz, it's a little over one can. But start with the just one can as a minimum charge.

Since I live in Denver, and I'm at 6000+ feet in altitude, my pressures may be little different than yours but pretty close. There is a document in the how-to section that is very important. The SVX A/C system seems to use lower pressures than most other systems. It mentions that I should have 28 PSI on the low side and 185-213 for the high side using R134a. Low side pressures should be the same for Duracool but the high side will 5-10% lower using R-12 and as much as 20-30% lower than R134a.

The document says to run the car at 1500-1700 RPM's to get the correct measurements. I stuck my hydralic jack against the gas pedal to the correct RPM's. After three minutes I started feeding Duracool into the low side of the system. Please note, that with Duracool and other HC-12 refridgerants must be fed in as a liquid, so the can will be upside down. R134a and R12 can's must NOT be upside down. Now I've been messing with the pressures for two weeks to get the optimum charge and the how-to document is right regarding the pressure. I suggest putting in one full can of Duracool, driving it around for 30 minutes, and then come back and hook up the manifold gauge set again. Set the jack or simular weight against the throttle and take your measurements. I don't recommend using another person in run the throttle unless they don't mind sitting in the car for 20-30 minutes and can keep their foot perfectly still to provide you with the smooth readings you need. I settled on 30 PSI on the low side and about 165 PSI on the high side.

Now you may be wondering how Duracool performs in the system. Let me just say, it's excellent. From what I've been reading, getting a car A/C system under 40 degrees fahrenheit is hard to do. Well, I've been getting in the 30's without a problem, and I've reached as low as 28 degrees on the highway! This might be a bit too cold if you live in a high humidity area because you could freeze up your evaporator (Colorado is very dry). I guess you'll have to click the vent button to unfreeze the evaporator or put a little more/less Duracool in the system.

This post ended up being longer than I thought. Hopefully this document will help someone as the other posts on this site have helped me.
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Old 08-01-2005, 03:52 AM
magickfingers
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Hey Ryushin - Welcome to the family! Also, thanks very much for a most informative post. I (and several others here) have 'tepid' air conditioners, and i had never heard of the HC alternatives. Maybe i'll have a 'cold' AC before the end of the summer.
Marc
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Old 08-01-2005, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magickfingers
Hey Ryushin - Welcome to the family! Also, thanks very much for a most informative post. I (and several others here) have 'tepid' air conditioners, and i had never heard of the HC alternatives. Maybe i'll have a 'cold' AC before the end of the summer.
Marc
Welcome indeed, and fingers... did you really read all of Ryushin's post?
My eyes were after 2 paragraphs...
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Old 08-01-2005, 09:32 AM
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Welcome to the site Ryushin. Do you have any pictures to go with the how to? If you do, let me know and I can put them into it for you before I post it there. Thanks
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Old 08-01-2005, 09:55 AM
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Hocrest Hocrest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryushin
...BTW, someone mentioned using a 30 mm to put the main seal and cam seals back in. Let me said for the record, it's very hard to find a 30 mm socket. Denver, Colorado isn't exactly small, and calling around everywhere didn't turn up a metric socket that large. So if you are planning on doing this work yourself, buy the socket online/whatever before you do the work...
One of the most beneficial first posts I've ever seen

To tap the cam and crank seals in, I took the seals to Home Depot and found a PVC pipe coupler fitting that was the perfect size, and it cost less than a buck. And the best part is that it is common enough to be found at almost any hardware store.
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Old 08-01-2005, 03:24 PM
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thanks for the A/C info. I came across HC-12a as well when reseaching fixing my A/C. I came across this autocool website. You have given me more confidence to try to fix my A/C as well. I plan on useing HC-12a. Not sure wether to use autocool or duracool though.
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Old 08-01-2005, 05:41 PM
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To tap in the seals I used a socket that I had for the half axle nut. I think it is around 34mm? Can't remember. I have 2 of them - one for the old suby wagon and another for the svx nut. IIRC I bought them at advance auto.

Jacking the engine up to take the puzzle out of the driver side valve cover is a great trick.
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Old 08-01-2005, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by immortal_suby
To tap in the seals I used a socket that I had for the half axle nut. I think it is around 34mm? Can't remember. I have 2 of them - one for the old suby wagon and another for the svx nut. IIRC I bought them at advance auto.
I have the 32 and 36 for old and new, but neither of them worked??? I sort of remember mine not being deep enough?
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Old 08-01-2005, 08:51 PM
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Ensteele:
Sorry, no pictures. Wasn't exactly on my mind when I was going through the process. In retro spect, I don't know how much help they would be. The pictures that Ryan put up for changing out the timing belt help there a lot. The A/C system is pretty simple once you know the componets and look at that great document in the how-to section.

Hocrest:
Yea, went to Home Depot too. But I only took the main seal with me, and found out the PVC pipe I got wouldn't fit the cam seals right. Next time I'll take both with me.

SilVerXtc:
Autocool looked good too. I "think" they are all pretty much the same. I did have good sucess with Duracool and they seemed the most professional of all the major HC manufactures that I found. Get the DVD from autozone. It's a good learning tool. Get the other documents and tools that I pointed out, and you shouldn't have to much a problem. Just take your time and don't rush. Double check everything. The knowledge you will gain will make your A/C work much easier and much cheaper. If you have questions, Google it, or ask me. I'll try and help you the best that I can.

Oh yea, about the 30mm socket, it's a deep socket you need. I couldn't find a deep socket. Hell, I have a 30mm normal socket. It's that deep part that is hard to find.

Some of you may be wondering what the total cost was. It was around $500 for all the tools and the A/C compressor. This does not include the cost of a good air compressor though. If you don't have one, and your sure you system is sealed good. Just open the shrader valve empty the contents of your system. Just don't let anyone seeing you do it. It's not legal to dump your system into the atmosphere. Though, R134a is used in cans of air to blow out computers (never again will I buy the type that uses R134a), so it's just a EPA BS regarding that. I still don't know how R12 is going to hurt the ozone layer, when the stuff is heavier than air.

Oh, a short story, Dupont owned the patent on R12. Two years before their patent was going to expire, their scientists "discovered" that R12 would hurt the ozone layer. Don't worry says Dupont, we've disovered another refridgerant called R134a. Oh, and we have the patent on that too. So the EPA, taking a liking to Dupont, made it against the law to manufacture R12 anymore, and pushed R134a down our throats.

Oh, BTW, HC's don't react with air, and don't react with either PAG or mineral oil. So it's fully compatible with your current R12 or R134a system. Just make sure you still draw a deep vacuum. If you have air in the system, it will contaminate the PAG oil and mess up your dryer. Also, having air in the system means it will be less effecient. So don't skip the vacuum step.

Also, do not mix mineral oil with PAG oil. I've heard of these things mixing and causing your compressor to have the "black death". So if you have mineral oil, stay with it and use Duracool. You cannot use mineral oil with R134a. You must use PAG oil with R134a.

Oh, and I forgot, you must label your A/C system in your engine bay with what you filled it with and how much you put in.
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Old 08-01-2005, 11:35 PM
magickfingers
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Originally Posted by SilverSpear
Welcome indeed, and fingers... did you really read all of Ryushin's post?
My eyes were after 2 paragraphs...
Yeah, read it and learned a lot. Thanks again, Ryushin.
Marc
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Old 08-02-2005, 04:58 PM
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immortal_suby immortal_suby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hocrest
I have the 32 and 36 for old and new, but neither of them worked??? I sort of remember mine not being deep enough?
The ones I have are deep well 1/2" drive.
If I wasn't so lazy I'd snap a picture of them.
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Old 08-18-2005, 04:40 PM
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Earthworm Earthworm is offline
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A belated welcome to the site.

All the how-to's are located in 2 places:

1. the How-to locker maintained by ensteele
2. the SVXipedia on http://svx-iw.com/ which is open to everyone to submit their own fixes and howtos.
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